It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial
- Thread starter WPM
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Revelation 19:7-10 tells us, “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Jesus Christ is the bridegroom.
Jesus refers to Himself as the “bridegroom” in Matthew 9:15. He speaks about His removal from this earth for a time: saying, “the bridegroom shall be taken from them.” But that is not the end of the story, He reassures His people in John 14:2-3, “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”
The bridegroom (the symbolic Lamb) that goes will return for His bride someday soon.
Mat 9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
Joh 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
When is the marriage?
Jesus said in Matthew 25:1-13: “Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready [hetoimos] went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”
This parable speaks of Christ’s coming and shows that He is coming for those that are ready. The 5 virgins in this earthly story are a spiritual picture of the bride of Christ. The parable of the virgins supports the idea of a climactic coming of Christ. People are either caught up or caught on when He appears. Being ready means rescued, being locked outside means destruction. Interpreting Scripture with Scripture assists us here. As in Noah’s day, “the door was shut” – the day of opportunity was finally closed – and those left outside were totally destroyed.
The solemn side of this parable is the awful plight of the five foolish virgins who had no oil in their lamps. Like the wicked that were left in Noah’s day, the religious will cry when it is too late: “Lord, Lord, open to us.” The only problem is it is too late. The solemn cry will come from the Master, “Verily I say unto you, I know you not” (vv 11-12). This is exactly what Jesus says to the wicked at the final judgment. He isn't saying: ‘welcome to a 7 year tribulation period’ or ‘welcome to the Premil millennium for another chance’. Sadly, they are damned and doomed for all eternity.
Revelation 19:7-10 tells us, “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
The feast
I see only one supper. It is not the supper of the saints as some seem to suggest, it is the supper of the lamb. This is symbolic language for the final justice of the Lamb when the wicked are finally and eternally devoured. The new earth that is ushered in is then free of the curse of corruption. Corruption cannot indeed inherit incorruption – therefore no vestige of the fall can enter the new arrangement.
After the vision of the “marriage supper” John falls before the throne of Christ. John was totally overwhelmed by the revelation of this final union. The wedding therefore is the consummating of the union between bridegroom and the bride or the catching away of the saints. The supper described is written in symbolic language to show the destruction that befalls the wicked that are left behind.
Matthew 26:27-29 tells us what happens straight after the great climactic coming of Christ at the consummation: “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.”
At the end of a Jewish wedding the groom takes a plain gold ring and places it on the finger of the bride, and states: "Behold you are sanctified (betrothed) to me with this ring, according to the Law of Moses and Israel." This is immediately followed by the sheva brachos, or seven blessings. These blessings are recited over a full cup of wine. The couple then share in drinking the cup of wine, and the groom breaks a glass by stamping on it.
Jesus equally informed His disciples that He would not share in the cup of wine with them again until the arrival of His kingdom. If we take the Jewish wedding as an example, this precludes any marriage in heaven during the tribulation.
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Since you like to copy and paste, I'm going to do the same, except I'm going to do it with something I actually wrote: The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture
I look forward to your copy and paste response.
It's called avoidance! It's near impossible to get pretribbers to address what we write.
Ribera formulated the futurism to which pretribbers subscribe. Do you disagree?
More avoidance. This is Pretribs MO. The next step is ad hominem, then running.
Exactly! You cannot answer honestly because it would demolish Pretrib. Just admit Pretrib is dead and its disciples are on the run.
- How many wicked survived in Noah's day?
- How many wicked survived in Sodom?
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Op Note
No Pretribber can address or rebut the Op. because there is no biblical basis for the theory. What is more, the Posttrib argument is water-tight.
CrowCross has also run yesterday from some simple but strong Posttrib arguments here that refute his Pretrib theology. All he could do is run and hide. It is fun to watch Pretribbers fall over themselves to sidestep all the holes in what they have been taught and rush for the exit. Their ship is sinking. Pretrib is dead. This avoidance is testimony to it.
Thankfully the doctrine is crumbling today. It has been totally exposed online. Many churches have abandoned it.
No Pretribber can address or rebut the Op. because there is no biblical basis for the theory. What is more, the Posttrib argument is water-tight.
CrowCross has also run yesterday from some simple but strong Posttrib arguments here that refute his Pretrib theology. All he could do is run and hide. It is fun to watch Pretribbers fall over themselves to sidestep all the holes in what they have been taught and rush for the exit. Their ship is sinking. Pretrib is dead. This avoidance is testimony to it.
Thankfully the doctrine is crumbling today. It has been totally exposed online. Many churches have abandoned it.
Does it take 7 yrs for a Jewish Wedding to be consummated? Of course not. This is another Pretrib invention that has no connection to reality or God's infallible Word. No Scripture passage anywhere in the Bible compares a Pretrib rapture coming of the Lord to a 7 year or 7 day supposed Jewish Wedding tradition. When Christ is united with His bride; it will not be for a 7-day or 7-year consummation; it will be for eternity!
Taken
Well-Known Member
The OP is your Opinion.
Followed by 140 pages of Your Opinions.
It is obvious you are not schooled in the difference between:
* Christ Jesus’ Open Door Salvation Offering;
* Christ Jesus’ Closed Door, Ceased Offering
* How, When, Why Christ the Lord Jesus Redeems They who Entered Through His Door.
AND:
* Gods ANCIENT Offering of Salvation.
* TO Last man Living Offering of Salvation.
* How, When, Why God Resurrects They He Saves.
Pitiful you spend so much Effort bathering your Carnal Opinions, Rather Than Glorifying the Lord God With His Truths.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
I honestly cannot make head or tail of a lot of your posts. Can you maybe start posting Scripture and then exegete it? That would be helpful. Your writings are hard to follow. I'm not trying to be offensive bro.
Again, you cannot address any of the biblical arguments here. All you can do is express your opinions. That will not cut it. That is not enough. Private interpretation proves nothing.
Taken
Well-Known Member
A human has TWO processes to Conclude matters…
* 1)The Carnal Mind
* 2)The Spiritual Heart
You and I converse in two separate modes…
I discuss spiritual things from a spiritual point of view…
You want a discussion about spiritual things from a Carnal Logical point of view.
The outcome will always be a fail.
The Carnal Mind… thinks makes Logical Conclusions.
The Logical Conclusions are determined by amount of Knowledge and “Making Sense” of that knowledge.
And from day to day can gain more knowledge and “change his Mind”.
The Spiritual Heart…believes in a truth that does not waver.
A man’s “Body” is his, it’s life is Blood…and appointed to die.
A man’s “Natural Truth in his Heart” IS his Natural “spirit” and “appointed to die”.
A man’s “Soul” is Gods, and that Souls Life Is Gods Spiritual Breath. It has no “sure” appointment to die.
God IS Spirit… THUS…a man having a YOKED, set, bonded Relationship WITH God…
Requires the Bonded Relationship to BE “Spiritual”…
The “Spiritual” Relationship… THUS requires the man… to BE “Accounted” Spiritual…
Gods Offering Through Christ Jesus…
IS an Express Order and Way…
FOR God To Give and ACCOUNT… THAT man, the Ability TO be ACCOUNTED “Spiritual”…When in fact, “it Physically has not Yet come to manifest / pass”.
Rom 4:
[17] (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Salvation Given, is ONLY Given AFTER the BODY is DEAD.
1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
To Quicken, means to GIVE a Spiritual Life.
Bodys Must Die, Before Spiritual Life can Be Given.
God from the Beginning to the Ending Has and Will Give to Bodily Dead men, who Bodily Died in Heartful Belief…
A Saved soul and quickened (born again spirit)… and raise them in a new body …
First Resurrection.
Christ Jesus beginning 2,000 + years ago … TO the Rapture…has Offered men A New Better Testament…
* A bodily crucifixion of men…WITH Jesus’ Body…
* Satisfying the man’s Bodily Death Requirement…
* the man’s own word of Confession of Heartful Belief…
* the man’s “confession of Heartful belief “Verified by the Lord God, who knows All and searches the heart”
* The lord God “restoring” / saving the man’s soul.
* The Spirit of Gods Seed entering that man’s natural spirit in his Heart And Birthing a New Spirit with Gods Seed.
* Gods Spirit of Truth entering In that man’s Heart and Dwelling with-IN that man, and continually FEEDING that man Gods Truth and Gods Understanding.
In brief…
Rom 8:7 - Carnal mind against God
Gen 9:5 - body, blood life must die
1Cor. 2:4 -natural man excluded from receiving spiritual things.
Heb 7:22 a better Testament / opportunity
John 10:9 Jesus the Door
Matt 25:10 Parallel teaching of Jesus’ door being Shut.
Gen 7:16 ( parallel teaching God closing the Door, with the Righteous inside).
Gal. 2:20 - Bodily Crucified with Christ
Psalms 23:3 - Soul restored
John 3:3 - Spirit born again
Rom 4:17 -calling what is not as thought it is
Gal 3:16 - Christ the Seed
John 16:13 - Spirit of Truth
Jer 17:10 - God searches the heart
Glory to God,
Taken
