Connecting the dots = a pre-tribulation rapture.

[CrowCross]

connecting the dots of pre-trib rapture?:

I have been thinking / pondering, should this be added as "rule 1 b" in Bible study Rules?:

"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to​

the use of edifying, that it may minister Grace unto the hearers." (Ephesians 4:29 AV) ​

​

Precious friend(s), please pray for me about this Biblical thought in my own Grace journey with The Lord Jesus Christ?

And, hopefully I already instituted 'such' in my [ 18-month ] prayerful and Careful Pre-trib study of His Sound Doctrine:

God's Great GRACE Departure! ( Conclusion Part 17, and 16 others available upon request. )​

Thanks. cc: @CrowCross and @PeterAndroz

Grace and Peace. Amen.

I would say rule 1B is important.

For instance as I have expressed there is no verse that says God is trinity...but when you connect the dots in the bible it presents the father as God as well as the Son and Holy Spirit.

In the same way there id no verse that come right out and says there is a pre-trib rapture...nor a mid-trib or post rib rapture .
I would like the post trib rapture people to present their dots.

 

[David in NJ]

I would say rule 1B is important.

For instance as I have expressed there is no verse that says God is trinity...but when you connect the dots in the bible it presents the father as God as well as the Son and Holy Spirit.

CORRECT

In the same way there id no verse that come right out and says there is a pre-trib rapture...nor a mid-trib or post rib rapture .
I would like the post trib rapture people to present their dots.

FALSE

Your statement is human reasoning/religion that is against CHRIST - @GRACE ambassador pay careful attention to Scripture

The LORD Jesus Christ DIRECTLY Says: "If you follow ME, you will experience Tribulation in the world"

The LORD Jesus Christ DIRECTLY Commands His Saints: "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation I Come" - Matt 24:29-31

The HOLY SPIRIT DIRECTLY State: "The Antichrist is revealed BEFORE Christ Comes" - Gospel , 2 Thess , 1 John , Revelation

The HOLY SPIRIT in Hebrews DIRECTLY States: To those who eagerly wait for Christ, He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation

pre-trib doctrine is a false prophecy that is at war against the Truth from the Mouth of GOD - Matt 4:1-11

 

[ewq1938]

I would say rule 1B is important.

For instance as I have expressed there is no verse that says God is trinity...but when you connect the dots in the bible it presents the father as God as well as the Son and Holy Spirit.

God is described as a Trinity.

1Jn_5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


Trinity simply means 3.

In the same way there id no verse that come right out and says there is a pre-trib rapture...nor a mid-trib or post rib rapture .
I would like the post trib rapture people to present their dots.

Christ literally said immediately after the trib that angels will gather the elect. That's the rapture described. Paul used the Greek word for rapture and placed it AFTER the Apostasy and revealing of the man of sin which means a pretrib rapture is not correct.

 

[gpresdo]

I'm a trinitarian, but.....I fail to see how this verse shows God is a trinity.

Even the "let us make" verse later on doesn't show a Trinitarian God but rather a more than one "person".

Man made(interpretor).
What word would u assign to refer to th4 Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

 

[CrowCross]

Man made(interpretor).
What word would u assign to refer to th4 Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Godhead.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Godhead.

and 1 John 5:7 in the few reliable Bibles
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
..

1 John 5:7 - Overcoming the World

For there are three that testify:

biblehub.com

King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Webster's Bible Translation
For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one.
Geneva Bible of 1587
For there are three, which beare recorde in heauen, the Father, the Worde, and the holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Bishops' Bible of 1568
For there are three which beare recorde in heauen, the father, the worde, and the holy ghost, and these three are one.
Coverdale Bible of 1535
(For there are thre which beare recorde in heauen: the father, the worde, and the holy goost, & these thre are one.)
Tyndale Bible of 1526
(For ther are thre which beare recorde in heuen the father the worde and the wholy goost. And these thre are one)
Literal Standard Version
because [there] are three who are testifying [[in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one;
Young's Literal Translation
because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one;
Smith's Literal Translation
For three are testifying (in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.
Literal Emphasis Translation
Because there are three bearing testimony: in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit- and these three are one;--
Douay-Rheims Bible
And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.
Haweis New Testament
For they are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these, even the three, are one.
Mace New Testament
There are three witnesses in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three testify the same thing.
Peshitta

1John 5:7 - [For there are three that testify in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one.]

1John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[rebuilder 454]

connecting the dots of pre-trib rapture?:

I have been thinking / pondering, should this be added as "rule 1 b" in Bible study Rules?:

"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to​

the use of edifying, that it may minister Grace unto the hearers." (Ephesians 4:29 AV) ​

​

Precious friend(s), please pray for me about this Biblical thought in my own Grace journey with The Lord Jesus Christ?

And, hopefully I already instituted 'such' in my [ 18-month ] prayerful and Careful Pre-trib study of His Sound Doctrine:

God's Great GRACE Departure! ( Conclusion Part 17, and 16 others available upon request. )​

Thanks. cc: @CrowCross and @PeterAndroz

Grace and Peace. Amen.

All bible study is connecting the dots.

 

[PinSeeker]

Every pre-tripper who strongly promotes the error of pre-trib as if it were Gospel is purposely mishandling God's words to PROMOTE their agenda.

In a certain manner of speaking, yes, but they think they are reading God's Word correctly... they think they're right in their reading and understanding it. I mean, what, David, do you think is their "agenda?' Good grief. Come on, man. <chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

Nothing but unsupported claim you're hiding behind.

LOL! Nobody's "hiding behind" anything, CC. But now, "unsupported"... that's all you, man. But hey, that's kind of what makes this debate forum tick, right? Everybody thinks everybody who disagrees with them is making unsupported claims... <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

 

[David in NJ]

In a certain manner of speaking, yes, but they think they are reading God's Word correctly... they think they're right in their reading and understanding it. I mean, what, David, do you think is their "agenda?' Good grief. Come on, man. <chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.

IMPORTANT = this is the crux of the Matter

They have been told by religion/man that pre-trib is true = their faith/trust is in man, man-made false prophecy

The LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles recorded for us easy direct statements that a child can understand.

Such as:
a.) "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation I Come"

b.) "The dead in Christ Rise FIRST

c.) "AFTER the Resurrection, the alive remaining are caught up"

d.) "The day of our gathering/Day of the Lord, will not come until the falling away and the man of sin is revealed."

e.) As in the days of Noah

F.) All that the FATHER has given ME I will Raise UP on the LAST DAY

and MORE

 

[CrowCross]

LOL! Nobody's "hiding behind" anything, CC. But now. "unsupported"... that's all you, man. But hey, that's kind of what makes this debate forum tick, right? Everybody thinks everybody who disagrees with them is making unsupported claims... <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

I agree.

That's why I presented my support for the pre-trib rapture.

I'm still waiting for the connect the dots post-trib view. So far...crickets.

 

[PinSeeker]

I agree.

Great!

That's why I presented my support for the pre-trib rapture.

Right, but you didn't just present... <smile>

I'm still waiting for the connect the dots post-trib view. So far...crickets.

Hmmm, yes, lying in wait... Yeah I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. <smile> Post-tribbers are wrong, too... <smile>

I will say, though, that "post-tribbers" are... well, closer... than "pre-tribbers"... <smile> ...in the respect that they understand the second resurrection to be combined, or general, to believers and unbelievers alike and occurring after the "Great Tribulation." But they believe the millennium to be following even the return of Christ, which is just not right. <smile>

But even just regarding variations in the pre-millennialism "camp," historic pre-millennialists are closer than dispensational pre-millennialists (pre-trib folks)...

Grace and peace to you, CrowCross.

 

[CrowCross]

Great!


Right, but you didn't just present... <smile>


Hmmm, yes, lying in wait... Yeah I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. <smile> Post-tribbers are wrong, too... <smile>

I will say, though, that "post-tribbers" are... well, closer... than "pre-tribbers"... <smile> ...in the respect that they understand the second resurrection to be combined, or general, to believers and unbelievers alike and occurring after the "Great Tribulation." But they believe the millennium to be following even the return of Christ, which is just not right. <smile>

But even just regarding variations in the pre-millennialism "camp," historic pre-millennialists are closer than dispensational pre-millennialists (pre-trib folks)...

Grace and peace to you, CrowCross.

Yet another who can't connect their dots.

have a nice day.

 

[rebuilder 454]

God is described as a Trinity.

1Jn_5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


Trinity simply means 3.




Christ literally said immediately after the trib that angels will gather the elect. That's the rapture described. Paul used the Greek word for rapture and placed it AFTER the Apostasy and revealing of the man of sin which means a pretrib rapture is not correct.

Nope.
And that passage in mat 24 can not be the rapture for many reasons.
1) angels do the gathering, and the sender(JESUS), stays and does not participate.So that alone is a huge huge problem.
Added to that is that the gathering is in heaven, not earth.
2)that coming can only be after the wrath.
That is the only place Jesus comes in power and great glory
So you are basically saying after the wrath,Jesus sends angels all over heaven, and they are gathered in heaven to the white horses, when Jesus comes with millions of white horses, after the wrath, as a warrior ,and a judge , a destroying Judge.

3) on order to ascribe to the postrib rapture, you must also ascribe to the "one coming" theory.
Both theories are impossible, but those items are a package deal.

All postribbers are forced to frame end times in one coming.

So which one is it?
The one after the 7 yr trib?
The one before tge flood...( the pretrib coming)?
The one during the trib in Rev 14:14?

Which one is the only one?

 

[rebuilder 454]

I agree.

That's why I presented my support for the pre-trib rapture.

I'm still waiting for the connect the dots post-trib view. So far...crickets.

They can't

 

[PinSeeker]

Yet another who can't connect their dots.

Like I said, I can connect them the way you think I should, but that's the very issue/problem... the way you and other like-minded folks "connect the dots"... <smile>

have a nice day.

Ah. Yeah. <chuckles> Grace and peace to you, CrowCross.

 

[CrowCross]

Like I said, I can connect them the way you think I should, but that's the very issue/problem... the way you and other like-minded folks "connect the dots"... <smile>

I'm sure you can.

Ah. Yeah. <chuckles> Grace and peace to you, CrowCross.

 

[PinSeeker]

They can't

Well, they can (connect the dots), and they do, but the issue is what they think those "dots" are and how they "connect." If the premise(s) is (are) wrong... Yeah, that's the issue.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

They have been told by religion/man that pre-trib is true = their faith/trust is in man, man-made false prophecy

Okay, but this is a non-answer to my question to you, David. I mean they'll say the same right back to you or anyone else who says this of them. You said they (pre-tribbers) "have an agenda." What do you think that agenda is? I mean, if it's to try to get you to believe and/or understand God's Word as they do, then how is that different from you or anyone else here? And in case you can't tell... <chuckles> ...that's really a rhetorical question... <smile> ...it's not.

The LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles recorded for us easy direct statements that a child can understand.

Yeah, we would all say that. And, it's true. Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

...that passage in mat 24 can not be the rapture for many reasons.

Right, it's not... there is no "rapture," there or anywhere else.

1) angels do the gathering, and the sender(JESUS), stays and does not participate.

Hmmm, well I agree about the angels... and the Sender... But the participation or lack thereof... <chuckles> So Who (capital 'W') do the angels gather them to? <smile> And for what? <smile>

Added to that is that the gathering is in heaven, not earth.

Oh boy. Why do you think that, Rebuilder? Be specific. How can you not see that Jesus brings heaven down to us? Does not John say that in his vision he "saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband"...? And that's just after the final judgment, of course.

...that coming can only be after the wrath.

The wrath, Rebuilder, God's wrath, is synonymous with the final judgment and the result thereof for Satan himself and the unrepentant... eternal punishment... in terms of Revelation 20, the second death.

So you are basically saying after the wrath, Jesus sends angels all over heaven, and they are gathered in heaven to the white horses, when Jesus comes with millions of white horses, after the wrath, as a warrior ,and a judge , a destroying Judge.

Ugh. <smile> I mean, maybe he/she is saying that, but... Yeah, ugh. Really, though, that's just what you foist upon them. Goodness gracious. <chuckles>

3) on order to ascribe to the postrib rapture, you must also ascribe to the "one coming" theory.

Not a theory... <chuckles> I'm certainly not a "post-tribber," Rebuilder, but as I said above to CrowCross, post-tribbers are in fact right in the respect that they understand the second resurrection to be combined, or general, to believers and unbelievers alike and occurring after the "Great Tribulation." <smile>

All postribbers are forced to frame end times in one coming.

There is only one second coming of Christ. In just that, they are correct. <chuckles> There are not multiple second comings. If nothing else because then there would be a second second coming ~ which sounds silly, I know ~ or third coming ~ which also sounds silly. Yeah silliness is bad... <smile>

So which one is it? The one after the 7 yr trib? The one before tge flood...( the pretrib coming)? The one during the trib in Rev 14:14?

<chuckles> There is no future seven-year tribulation, as if it's actually seven 365-day periods or separate in any real sense from the tribulation period we are in right now, which Jesus fortold in John 16:33... "I have said these things to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."

Which one is the only one?

<smile> There is only one second coming of Christ... after the time of tribulation. There will be a time of great tribulation near the end, as in a final conflict, but only one time of tribulation. And, when He comes, Christ will bring it to an end. And then, after the final judgment, eternity, and the new heaven and new earth ~ and not "new" in the sense of being created or never having existed before... As God says in Revelation 21;5, "Behold, I am making all things new." An important distinction: He does not say, "I am making new things."<smile>

Grace and peace to you.