I often think I really hope Jesus will be giving me a hug and welcoming me when The time comes, or that when I am in a horrible mental spot, He is smiling down knowing everything will be ok and comforting me... however not all believe that He will be smiling and ultra forgiving....Specifically I would love to think that Jesus is the compassionate, forgiving, and welcoming smiling Jesus many believe who when we sin smiles and says it's ok...rather then the stern judgemental "get away from me, I never knew you".Jesus that other portray. I know ultimately He is both, however how are you confident He is what you believe?
How do we know the Jesus we hope for is how He is?
- Thread starter Ernie
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I became fully persuaded by the New Testament writers and by personal relationship with him.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
- Jul 13, 2021
- 10,576
- 13,225
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
* This one is part of a series called "Welcome Home", and I have a print hanging on the bathroom wall. The artist's name is Danny Halbohn, and I met him at a show in Pompano Beach, Florida. I used to use this as my avatar. I was struck by the welcome from the Father and Holy Spirit as well as the Son.
Last edited:
Lambano
Well-Known Member
- Jul 13, 2021
- 10,576
- 13,225
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
Ernie, I've gone through the Gospels many times, and Jesus doesn't always seem to do what I think He will do. He confused His own disciples, He confounded the Pharisees, and the powers-that-be didn't know what to make of Him either. I hope I see the Jesus who had compassion for "the lost and the least", because that's the one who inspires me - but I have to be emotionally prepared for anything.
Last edited:
Yes, He is both ... we know this because loving parents do not excuse the bad behavior of their children.
Even when we punish our children, we still love them.
In fact, one could argue that parents who do not punish their children for misconduct, do not really love them.
On a more cosmic scale, God who created all things is also the judge of all things ... otherwise there would be no justice.
Perfect love and perfect justice are not contradictory, rather they are complementary.
The good news of the Gospel is this:
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (John 5:24)
Last edited:
""The good news of the Gospel is this:"""
Yes, that is what John taught to his audience.
Acts 8:14-17 At times John also had to pray & lay hands for a baptized believer to receive the HS
Nowhere is that taught in the Gospel that Christ Gal 1:11-12 revealed to Paul
To his audience Paul taught :- 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
Saved and HS sealed only by faith & trust in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ
..
Do you see the minor differences between what Paul & John taught ?
Gal 2:2 Christ sent Paul to the 12 to explain it.
If what Paul taught was EXACTLY what the 12 taught, why was there any need for Christ to send Paul to them to tell them ?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Not sure I followed all that but I would like to focus on your reference to Ephesians 1:13.
The historical account is in Acts 18 & 19.
Paul lived with Aquila & Priscilla (18:3).
Later we're told that they instructed Apollos in Ephesus (18:26).
Paul baptizes the Ephesians in the name of the Lord Jesus (19:5).
They receive the Holy Spirit (19:6).
So the question is, did the Ephesians receive the Holy Spirit when or after they believed the Gospel?
KJV:
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in whom also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
ESV:
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation,
and believed in him,
were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Hey Mark, your 2 Thess 1 8 plus 7 is interesting.
Looking forward to exchanging views with you on this :)
..
Yes, B4 Eph 1:13, Paul did lay hands & pray for some to receive the HS
Then AS OF 1 Cor 15:1-4 Eph 1:13 that was not required.
The HS seal was achieved by hearing, believing and trusting the 1 Cor 15:1-4 Gospel that Christ Gal 1:11-12 taught to Paul which Paul himself had to explain to the 12 - Gal 2:2
Where AFTER Eph 1:13, did Paul teach anything else that was required to receive the HS seal ?
If you list the verses, I learn
Last edited:
The only thing I see Paul explaining to the 12 is his calling to preach to the gentiles, and his teaching that gentiles should not be required to keep the Law (Galatians 2:7-9)
At the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15) Paul supported Peter's pronouncement that the gentiles should not be required to follow the Law.
I get the impression there was communal unanimity.
Where AFTER Eph 1:13, did Paul teach anything else that was required to receive the HS seal ?
If you list the verses, I learn
Are you suggesting that there was a difference in Paul's teaching & practice after what occurred in Acts 19?
Historically, Paul's ministry to the Ephesian believers (Acts 19) is well into his third missionary journey,
I regard the book of Ephesians as the epistle representing the most mature expression of Paul's teaching,
probably written from prison in Rome near the end of his life.
Last edited:
""At the council at Jerusalem (Acts 15) Paul supported Peter's pronouncement that the gentiles should not be required to follow the Law.""
Acts 15:11-12... we shall be saved, even as they.
Not as B4, but now----we (Peter etc) shall be saved in the same way the Gentiles are now saved.
..
And today, what are the verses that teach how you & I are saved & HS sealed ?
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 as taught by Christ to Paul Gal 1:11-12
..
""Are you suggesting that there was a difference in Paul's teaching & practice after what occurred in Acts 19?""
If the 12 taught EXACTLY the same as Paul then why did Christ (by revelation) need to Gal 2:2 send Paul to them to explain what he was teaching to the Gentiles ?
I would be interested to read what you see as the things Paul explained to the 12.
Do you accept that Paul taught faith/trust in the death, burial & resurrection of Christ = saved & HS sealed
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
In the case of Cornelius and his household, when they believed they received the Holy Spirit (Acts 10)
In the case of the Ephesians, they believed, then they were baptized, and then they received the Holy Spirit (Acts 19)
So exactly what was it you say Paul explained to the 12?
B4 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
- was the HS ALWAYS received ONLY by hearing the 'word' ? > NO
- were there occasions where LAY & PRAY was required to receive the HS ? > YES
..
AFTER 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
- were there ANY occasions where LAY & PRAY was required to receive the HS ? >> NO
You are MORE than welcome to correct me, that way we all learn :)
..
Back to my polite request for a YES or NO
Do you accept that Paul taught faith/trust in the death, burial & resurrection of Christ = saved & HS sealed
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
Sorry but I do not know what you mean by "after" ... are you talking about historical sequence?
My polite request came first
To avoid confusion :-Sorry but I do not know what you mean by "after" ... are you talking about historical sequence?
My polite request came first
Is there ANWHERE in Pauls Epistles that teaches LAY & PRAY is required to receive the HS ?
..
Your question ??
""would be interested to read what you see as the things Paul explained to the 12.""
My asnwer >> The Gospel that Christ in Gal 1:1-12 taught Paul.
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
If it was EXACTLY the same that the 12 were teaching then why did Christ - by revelation Gal 2:2 - need to send Paul to the 12 to explain it to them ?
You mean apart from what happened when Paul was ministering to the Ephesians ... recorded in Acts 19 and recalled in Ephesians 1:13?
What you call "lay & pray" was not what happened when Peter was ministering in the house of Cornelius.
My question in #15 was "So exactly what was it you say Paul explained to the 12?"
I understand you see a difference ... it's just that I do not know what that difference is?
Attachments
AFTER Acts In Romans to Philemon, does Paul teach that LAY HANDS & or PRAY by others is required to receive the HS ?
NO.
..
DURING Acts as well as hearing the 'word' was it SOMETIMES necessary for others to LAY HANDS & or PRAY to receive the HS ?
YES eg Acts 8:14-17, Acts 19:1-6
..
Do you agree with that ?
If not, please list the verses that teach otherwise.
Last edited:
Are we supposed to ignore what Paul said in Ephesians about receiving the HS?
Yes, I agree with that.
I still do not understand why you are reluctant to say exactly what Paul explained to the 12.
Similar threads
