What is necessary to be a Christian?

[Matthias]

It's a similar question, but I started this thread to discuss whether or not a person must believe in the Trinity in order to be a Christian. …

Thank you for your reply. I would like to hear you expand on why you think it’s only a similar question. It strikes me as being the same question put another way. (Understood that way, it eliminates the need to discuss 4th century trinitarian doctrine due to the constraints of history.)

 

[Lambano]

If you want to be a member of the club, you have to agree to the bylaws.

 

[Lambano]

I've had this conversation with another member in a different thread. "Not being a Christian" is typically understood by Christians as being a member of the set of "Not Saved" people. So yes, the question is a restatement of, "What must I do to be saved?"

 

[Lambano]

I've had this conversation with another member in a different thread. "Not being a Christian" is typically understood by Christians as being a member of the set of "Not Saved" people. So yes, the question is a restatement of, "What must I do to be saved?"

Though my conversation partner conceded that the question of who is saved was above her paygrade.

 

[Lambano]

Though my conversation partner conceded that the question of who is saved was above her paygrade.

I suppose the question might be, how much weight does Jesus put on doctrinal belief in deciding who is His?

Another question that came out of my conversation, with whom can I have Christian fellowship?

 

[keithr]

Thank you for your reply. I would like to hear you expand on why you think it’s only a similar question. It strikes me as being the same question put another way.

“What must I do to be saved?” asks what does one need to do to become a Christian. “What is necessary to be a Christian?” asks what must one need to believe and do in order to remain a Christian; at least that is what I intended it to mean.

The forum administrators seem to think that you must believe their stated doctrinal beliefs (which includes the Trinity doctrine) in order to be a Christian, even though, as I've shown, that is not necessary in order to become a Christian.

Romans 10:13 WEB

(13) For, “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”​

 

[GodsGrace]

Though my conversation partner conceded that the question of who is saved was above her paygrade.

Also read post 23 and 25.

I'd say that you're correct in post 25 where you state that doctrinal belief will not be salfivific factor.
No one can know who is saved and who is not except for God.

In 1 Cor 15 Paul states that one must believe what he taught.
But this will only be valide for those that have, indeed, heard the gospel and accepted it.
Not all will hear it.

A person could have his theology all wrong and still be saved.
A person could know Jesus but know nothing about Him only that He is loved by that person and is obeyed by that person.

Defining oneself as Christian is an entirely different matter but we won't repeat that long thread here.
Suffice it to say that in order to be defined as Christian...one must believe Christian tenets.

Cannot remember if you agreed or not...although I could not understand why any Christian would not agree that a person is defined as something because he holds to specific beliefs that make him a member of that belief system, group, etc.

Thanks for remembering that I did state that because one does not accept each tenet does not mean they are lost -- which is what some misunderstood and believed the thread was about that....doctrine as salvation.

 

[Matthias]

“What must I do to be saved?” asks what does one need to do to become a Christian. “What is necessary to be a Christian?” asks what must one need to believe and do in order to remain a Christian; at least that is what I intended it to mean.

The forum administrators seem to think that you must believe their stated doctrinal beliefs (which includes the Trinity doctrine) in order to be a Christian, even though, as I've shown, that is not necessary in order to become a Christian.

Romans 10:13 WEB

(13) For, “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”​

Would you agree that obedience to the teaching of Jesus and the apostles is necessary to be a Christian?

 

[PeterAndroz]

“What must I do to be saved?” asks what does one need to do to become a Christian. “What is necessary to be a Christian?” asks what must one need to believe and do in order to remain a Christian; at least that is what I intended it to mean.

The forum administrators seem to think that you must believe their stated doctrinal beliefs (which includes the Trinity doctrine) in order to be a Christian, even though, as I've shown, that is not necessary in order to become a Christian.

Romans 10:13 WEB

(13) For, “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”​

With regards to the teachings of Christ through Paul :-
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Col 2:13
To be saved/justified/HS sealed/ forgiven of ALL your sins :-
Hear, trust, believe in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ
With the performance requirements :-
Titus 3:5-7, Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1

 

[GodsGrace]

I've been a Christian for well over thirty years, and I am the treasurer and a trustee of the Pentecostal Christian church that I've been attending for about 32 years, but I've recently been banned from taking part in discussions in all the 'Christians Only' forums, because the CyB Team think that my "theological position" is "contrary to the historic Christian understanding of the person and nature of Jesus Christ as revealed in scripture". So my understanding of Scripture is not the same as theirs, and because discussion participants can't defend from Scripture their belief in the Trinity doctrine, they resort to requesting that the people with a different understanding of Scripture are banned from posting. This doesn't seem to obeying Paul's direction in 2 Timothy 2:24-25 WEB:

(24) The Lord’s servant must not quarrel, but be gentle towards all, able to teach, patient,​

(25) in gentleness correcting those who oppose him: perhaps God may give them repentance leading to a full knowledge of the truth,​

So because my "doctrinal position falls outside the boundaries of the forum’s Christian Statement of Faith", my account has been moved to the "Other Faiths" membership group. I was informed by a private discussion, to which I replied, but for some reason my reply was deleted from the private discussion some days later. Hmm.

I don't understand, or approve of, banning someone from discussions just because their "beliefs are incompatible with the biblical doctrine upheld by this forum". Why shouldn't anybody be allowed to suggest different interpretations of Scripture to how you interpret it? There is only one true interpretation, and we should all be seeking to find that truth, and we should be able to defend what we believe the truth to be using the Bible - 2 Timothy 3:16-17 UASV:

(16) All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;​

(17) so that the man of God may be fully competent, equipped for every good work.​

Paul preached the simple Gospel, which he declares as - 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 WEB:

(1) Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News {Gospel} which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand,​

(2) by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.​

(3) For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,​

(4) that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,​

(5) and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.​

(6) Then he appeared to over five hundred brothers at once, most of whom remain until now, but some have also fallen asleep.​

(7) Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles,​

(8) and last of all, as to the child born at the wrong time, he appeared to me also.​

So to be a Christian you simply need to believe that Jesus, the Messiah (Christ), died to pay for our sins so that we may have eternal life, and that God raised Jesus to life again three days later.

Now Paul also wrote that Jesus will not return for the Church until after there has been a falling away from the truth (apostasy) - 2 Thessalonians 2:3 UASV:

(3) Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,​

A large part of that apostasy is the teaching of the Trinity, teaching a new Gospel different from what the Apostles taught. Paul warned, Galatians 1:6-9 WEB:

(6) I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different “good news”;​

(7) and there isn’t another “good news.” Only there are some who trouble you, and want to pervert the Good News of Christ.​

(8) But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any “good news” other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed.​

(9) As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any “good news” other than that which you received, let him be cursed.​

But even in the early days of the Church, people started adding other requirements in order to be a Christian, e.g. Acts 15:1 WEB:

(1) Some men came down from Judea and taught the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised after the custom of Moses, you can’t be saved.”​

Jesus condemned the Jewish religious leaders for adding to God's Word and imposing additional requirements upon the Jews, e.g. Mark 7:6-13 WEB:

(6) He answered them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.​

(7) But they worship me in vain, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’​

(8) “For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men — the washing of pitchers and cups, and you do many other such things.”​

(9) He said to them, “Full well do you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition.​

(10) For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother;’ and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him be put to death.’​

(11) But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban, that is to say, given to God”;’​

(12) then you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother,​

(13) making void the word of God by your tradition, which you have handed down. You do many things like this.”​

Imposing the requirement to believe in a Trinitarian doctrine that did not exist in the early Church, and was not taught by Jesus and the Apostles, is the religious leaders making the same kind of mistakes that the Jewish religious leaders made.

This might be my last post on this forum. I'm going to sign up on another Christian forum that does allow discussion of the Trinity.


Romans 10:8-9 WEB

(8) But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth, and in your heart;” that is, the word of faith, which we preach:​

(9) that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.​

2 Timothy 4:2-4 WEB

(2) preach the word; be urgent in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with all patience and teaching.​

(3) For the time will come when they will not listen to the sound doctrine, but, having itching ears, will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts;​

(4) and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn away to fables.​

Note that the genius Sir Isaac Newton deduced that the Trinity was a false doctrine. From Google AI Overview:

Sir Isaac Newton rejected the Trinity because his rigorous scriptural analysis convinced him that God the Father is one supreme, singular deity, Jesus Christ is a subordinate created being, and the traditional Trinitarian doctrine was a deliberate fourth-century corruption of early Christian history.​

​

Scriptural and Historical Analysis​

• • Strict Monotheism: Newton believed that the Bible teaches absolute monotheism, identifying only the Father as the supreme "One True God".
  • Subordination of Christ: He viewed Jesus as the Son of God and Savior, but argued that Christ was subordinate to, created by, and entirely dependent upon the Father.
  • Historical Corruption: Newton concluded that 4th-century church leaders—specifically citing Bishop Athanasius—falsified historical documents and texts (such as 1 John 5:7) during the Arian controversy to invent the Trinity at the Council of Nicaea.

Implications of His Beliefs​

• • Secret Writings: Because denying the Trinity was illegal and considered heresy in England during his lifetime, Newton kept his extensive theological manuscripts strictly private.
  • Evading Ordination: His unorthodox views caused him to refuse holy orders in the Church of England, a requirement for Cambridge fellows that he was uniquely granted a royal exemption to bypass.

I had a thread on what defines a Christian about a year ago.
It was very long and some did not even understand what the point was.

I don't know what you believe, but I'll tell you this.
If you do not believe the Trinity, you should not consider yourself a Christian.
The Christian RELIGION requires that have have a standard set of beliefs...
if you do not, then what would make anyone think they're Christian?

The Trinity always existed....God was a multiple God even in the OT.
God is seen as 3 distinct Persons in the NT.
It was confirmed at a council....
Councils were for confirmation of beliefs...
they did not create/invent the belief.

 

[GodsGrace]

“What must I do to be saved?” asks what does one need to do to become a Christian. “What is necessary to be a Christian?” asks what must one need to believe and do in order to remain a Christian; at least that is what I intended it to mean.

The forum administrators seem to think that you must believe their stated doctrinal beliefs (which includes the Trinity doctrine) in order to be a Christian, even though, as I've shown, that is not necessary in order to become a Christian.

Romans 10:13 WEB

(13) For, “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”​

You don't have to be Christian to be saved.
You have to believe in the Christian tenets to be defined as Christian.

It's not the forum admin that makes this rule.
The Christian RELIGION makes this rule.

If you define yourself as Jewish you must have a set standard of beliefs.
If you define yourself as Muslim you must have a set standard of beliefs.
If you define yourself as Christian you must have a set standard of beliefs.

How do you think Christianity has lasted all these years?
By having everyone make up their own mind as to what Christianity is?

It is a cohesive religion.
If you want to belong to it you must believe what it teaches.
You could love Jesus and follow Him and be saved, but not be Christian.
JWs are not christian, are they?
It does not mean they are all lost.
But they certainly are not Christian.

 

[keithr]

You have to believe in the Christian tenets to be defined as Christian.

That's according to men (and women, like you). More important is the definition of a Christian according to God.

If you define yourself as Christian you must have a set standard of beliefs.

A Christian is a person who believes that Jesus is the Son of God, that he died on a cross to save people from sin, and that he rose from the dead. A Christian tries to live by the moral teachings, goodness, and love that Jesus taught. The word 'Christian' comes from the ancient Greek word Christianos, meaning a person who belongs to or follows Christ (the anointed one, anointed by God). We should follow Christ, our head, not men.

You could love Jesus and follow Him and be saved, but not be Christian.
JWs are not christian, are they?

I think that they are Christians (more so than a lot of people who congregate with other Christian denominations).

Ephesians 4:1-32 WEB

Unity in the Body of Christ​

(1) I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beg you to walk worthily of the calling with which you were called,​

(2) with all lowliness and humility, with patience, bearing with one another in love;​

(3) being eager to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.​

(4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;​

(5) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,​

(6) one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all.​

(7) But to each one of us was the grace given according to the measure of the gift of Christ.​

(8) Therefore he says, “When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts to people.”​

(9) Now this, “He ascended”, what is it but that he also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?​

(10) He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.​

(11) He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers;​

(12) for the perfecting of the saints, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Christ;​

(13) until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;​

(14) that we may no longer be children, tossed back and forth and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error;​

(15) but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him, who is the head, Christ;​

(16) from whom all the body, being fitted and knit together through that which every joint supplies, according to the working in measure of each individual part, makes the body increase to the building up of itself in love.​

The New Life​

(17) This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,​

(18) being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their hearts;​

(19) who having become callous gave themselves up to lust, to work all uncleanness with greediness.​

(20) But you didn’t learn Christ that way;​

(21) if indeed you heard him, and were taught in him, even as truth is in Jesus:​

(22) that you put away, as concerning your former way of life, the old man, that grows corrupt after the lusts of deceit;​

(23) and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,​

(24) and put on the new man, who in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of truth.​

(25) Therefore putting away falsehood, speak truth each one with his neighbor. For we are members of one another.​

(26) “Be angry, and don’t sin.” Don’t let the sun go down on your wrath,​

(27) and don’t give place to the devil.​

(28) Let him who stole steal no more; but rather let him labor, producing with his hands something that is good, that he may have something to give to him who has need.​

(29) Let no corrupt speech proceed out of your mouth, but only what is good for building others up as the need may be, that it may give grace to those who hear.​

(30) Don’t grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.​

(31) Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, outcry, and slander, be put away from you, with all malice.​

(32) And be kind to one another, tender hearted, forgiving each other, just as God also in Christ forgave you.​

Saying that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians is slander!

 

[GodsGrace]

That's according to men (and women, like you). More important is the definition of a Christian according to God.


A Christian is a person who believes that Jesus is the Son of God, that he died on a cross to save people from sin, and that he rose from the dead. A Christian tries to live by the moral teachings, goodness, and love that Jesus taught. The word 'Christian' comes from the ancient Greek word Christianos, meaning a person who belongs to or follows Christ (the anointed one, anointed by God). We should follow Christ, our head, not men.


I think that they are Christians (more so than a lot of people who congregate with other Christian denominations).

Ephesians 4:1-32 WEB

Unity in the Body of Christ​

(1) I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beg you to walk worthily of the calling with which you were called,​

(2) with all lowliness and humility, with patience, bearing with one another in love;​

(3) being eager to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.​

(4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling;​

(5) one Lord, one faith, one baptism,​

(6) one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all.​

(7) But to each one of us was the grace given according to the measure of the gift of Christ.​

(8) Therefore he says, “When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts to people.”​

(9) Now this, “He ascended”, what is it but that he also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?​

(10) He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.​

(11) He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers;​

(12) for the perfecting of the saints, to the work of serving, to the building up of the body of Christ;​

(13) until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;​

(14) that we may no longer be children, tossed back and forth and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error;​

(15) but speaking truth in love, we may grow up in all things into him, who is the head, Christ;​

(16) from whom all the body, being fitted and knit together through that which every joint supplies, according to the working in measure of each individual part, makes the body increase to the building up of itself in love.​

The New Life​

(17) This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,​

(18) being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their hearts;​

(19) who having become callous gave themselves up to lust, to work all uncleanness with greediness.​

(20) But you didn’t learn Christ that way;​

(21) if indeed you heard him, and were taught in him, even as truth is in Jesus:​

(22) that you put away, as concerning your former way of life, the old man, that grows corrupt after the lusts of deceit;​

(23) and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,​

(24) and put on the new man, who in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of truth.​

(25) Therefore putting away falsehood, speak truth each one with his neighbor. For we are members of one another.​

(26) “Be angry, and don’t sin.” Don’t let the sun go down on your wrath,​

(27) and don’t give place to the devil.​

(28) Let him who stole steal no more; but rather let him labor, producing with his hands something that is good, that he may have something to give to him who has need.​

(29) Let no corrupt speech proceed out of your mouth, but only what is good for building others up as the need may be, that it may give grace to those who hear.​

(30) Don’t grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.​

(31) Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, outcry, and slander, be put away from you, with all malice.​

(32) And be kind to one another, tender hearted, forgiving each other, just as God also in Christ forgave you.​

Saying that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians is slander!

Note your number 5 above.
It says that there is ONE faith.
Did the Apostles believe that Jesus is God?
So is there one faith or two?
One that believes Jesus was just a man...making Christianity idolatrous...
and another faith that teaches that Jesus was God...making Jesus trustworthy to be followed as you believe.

You are creating two different faiths - both with the title Christian.
This is not correct.



John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,


John 10:30
30I and the Father are one.”


John 20:28
28Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”


Colossians 2:9
9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,




No intention to turn this into a trinity thread...
just to support my statement that the Apostles believed Jesus is God and
this is what they taught.

Muslims believe in Jesus in the same way you do.
He was a great prophet but not God.
Maybe this makes you a muslim?

The JW are good people and they're probably saved.
But they are NOT Christian.
Maybe you're a JW?


Here are the tenets of the Christian Religion.
They were decided 2 thousand years ago.
We don't have the freedom to change the Christian Religion because some do not agree
with them.


THE DIVINITY OF JESUS
THE TRINITY
THE HYPOSTATIC UNION
JESUS' DEATH AND RESURRECTION
SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
ORIGINAL SIN/THE SIN NATURE
THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE
THE GREAT COMMISSION
THE RETURN OF JESUS
RESURRETION OF THE DEAD
BAPTISM
ETERNAL JUDGEMENT

 

[amigo de christo]

Note your number 5 above.
It says that there is ONE faith.
Did the Apostles believe that Jesus is God?
So is there one faith or two?
One that believes Jesus was just a man...making Christianity idolatrous...
and another faith that teaches that Jesus was God...making Jesus trustworthy to be followed as you believe.

You are creating two different faiths - both with the title Christian.
This is not correct.



John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,


John 10:30
30I and the Father are one.”


John 20:28
28Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”


Colossians 2:9
9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,




No intention to turn this into a trinity thread...
just to support my statement that the Apostles believed Jesus is God and
this is what they taught.

Muslims believe in Jesus in the same way you do.
He was a great prophet but not God.
Maybe this makes you a muslim?

The JW are good people and they're probably saved.
But they are NOT Christian.
Maybe you're a JW?


Here are the tenets of the Christian Religion.
They were decided 2 thousand years ago.
We don't have the freedom to change the Christian Religion because some do not agree
with them.


THE DIVINITY OF JESUS
THE TRINITY
THE HYPOSTATIC UNION
JESUS' DEATH AND RESURRECTION
SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
ORIGINAL SIN/THE SIN NATURE
THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE
THE GREAT COMMISSION
THE RETURN OF JESUS
RESURRETION OF THE DEAD
BAPTISM
ETERNAL JUDGEMENT

There is only one true FAITH that both saves a person and is well pleasing to GOD .
And all outside of that simply DO NOT have THE FAITH .
And they will wail ON JESUS day .
Enough with these these thoughts that try and induce anything that is not pleasing TO GOD
and yet make it seem like its somehow okay .
IF the jews did not get a pass , neither will any other .
And unto those denominations that even dare to cliam JESUS
many DO not . T HERE IS ONLY ONE FAITH that pleases GOD and that FAITH would have been pleasing GOD .
IF one beleives but believes on another jesus , then that faith is void .
IF one claims to beleive on JESUS and yet opens up the path to include UNBELEIF
then that persons faith is void .
IF one tries to turn GOD , Christ into a minsitir of any sin
THEN THEIR FAITH IS VOID . F OR THAT DOES NOT please GOD . TO BELIEVE GOD is what pleases GOD .
And contrary doctrine , sins and unbelief, DOES NOT please G OD .
I understand that folks are terrified of exposing false hoods and deadly dangerous sects and etc
BUT allowing such error , such sin , and unbeleif to remain upon t hose , IS NOT well pleasing to GOD
for it is hate and HE has warned against those who do such .
SO if any man were truly a seasoned leader , that man WOULD absolutely have had
corrected the very first sign of error and leaven WHEN HE SEEN IT .
And would not have allowed its entrance in upon this people . ANY who does such
IS no leader and must be removed from leaders hip and taught again the very basics
and words of TRUTH in that bible .

 

[GodsGrace]

There is only one true FAITH that both saves a person and is well pleasing to GOD .
And all outside of that simply DO NOT have THE FAITH .
And they will wail ON JESUS day .
Enough with these these thoughts that try and induce anything that is not pleasing TO GOD
and yet make it seem like its somehow okay .
IF the jews did not get a pass , neither will any other .
And unto those denominations that even dare to cliam JESUS
many DO not . T HERE IS ONLY ONE FAITH that pleases GOD and that FAITH would have been pleasing GOD .
IF one beleives but believes on another jesus , then that faith is void .
IF one claims to beleive on JESUS and yet opens up the path to include UNBELEIF
then that persons faith is void .
IF one tries to turn GOD , Christ into a minsitir of any sin
THEN THEIR FAITH IS VOID . F OR THAT DOES NOT please GOD . TO BELIEVE GOD is what pleases GOD .
And contrary doctrine , sins and unbelief, DOES NOT please G OD .
I understand that folks are terrified of exposing false hoods and deadly dangerous sects and etc
BUT allowing such error , such sin , and unbeleif to remain upon t hose , IS NOT well pleasing to GOD
for it is hate and HE has warned against those who do such .
SO if any man were truly a seasoned leader , that man WOULD absolutely have had
corrected the very first sign of error and leaven WHEN HE SEEN IT .
And would not have allowed its entrance in upon this people . ANY who does such
IS no leader and must be removed from leaders hip and taught again the very basics
and words of TRUTH in that bible .

Agreed.
We speak of a different gospel.
What could be more different than believing that Jesus is just a man/prophet,,,
whatever they believe - I'm not even sure what they believe.

Jesus said He and the Father are one.
He said before Abraham was I AM.
I AM means forever...before, during and after...forever.

The Apostles taught He is God.

There is only one faith.
Yes sir.

 

[amigo de christo]

Note your number 5 above.
It says that there is ONE faith.
Did the Apostles believe that Jesus is God?
So is there one faith or two?
One that believes Jesus was just a man...making Christianity idolatrous...
and another faith that teaches that Jesus was God...making Jesus trustworthy to be followed as you believe.

You are creating two different faiths - both with the title Christian.
This is not correct.



John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,


John 10:30
30I and the Father are one.”


John 20:28
28Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”


Colossians 2:9
9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,




No intention to turn this into a trinity thread...
just to support my statement that the Apostles believed Jesus is God and
this is what they taught.

Muslims believe in Jesus in the same way you do.
He was a great prophet but not God.
Maybe this makes you a muslim?

The JW are good people and they're probably saved.
But they are NOT Christian.
Maybe you're a JW?


Here are the tenets of the Christian Religion.
They were decided 2 thousand years ago.
We don't have the freedom to change the Christian Religion because some do not agree
with them.


THE DIVINITY OF JESUS
THE TRINITY
THE HYPOSTATIC UNION
JESUS' DEATH AND RESURRECTION
SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH
ORIGINAL SIN/THE SIN NATURE
THE AUTHORITY OF THE BIBLE
THE GREAT COMMISSION
THE RETURN OF JESUS
RESURRETION OF THE DEAD
BAPTISM
ETERNAL JUDGEMENT

The JW are good people and they're probably saved.
But they are NOT Christian.
Maybe you're a JW?
And maybe You my near and dear friend need to rethink this .
For there is NONE who is good and unto all
who Beleive CONTRARY to GOD , thus to CHRIST , thus to THE TRUTH and HIS words ,
They be in nothing but d eadly dire danger for they have made UNBELIEF their god as they
made those who taught it their god .
IF even the jews were not allowed into the promised land
Because they Feared and did NOT BELIEVE GOD
THEN LET THAT BE AN example of what can happen unto all who
EVEN CLIAM to BELIEVE ON JESUS and yet walk after another jesus .
WHO do we believe . My motto , LET GOD BE TRUE but e very man a liar .
Deadly d ire dangerous death , IS what all who walk contrary to CHRIST thus TO GOD are in my friend .
And that is why even the apostels would be so serious against sin and error .
Against UNBELIEF . Many now have long had their hopes in institutions and doctrines of men long gone wrong .
And rather than these demoniations repenting , THEY LONG held to their ficticious beliefs .
AND THAT IS WHY They NOW ALL GO UNDER THE END TIME let us be one , let us merge as one DELUSION
that will be their end on JESUS day . You see when sin , error is not corrected
WHY it was always GONNA GROW MASSIVE . And when folks teach blasphemous things and doctrines
about GOD , about Christ and refuse to repent but rather grow only bolder in it
THEN THEY WILL SURELY BE DELIVERED unto the merger of that which will merge them
BUT WILL END THEM ON JESUS DAY . CORRECTION , GRAVITY , SINCERITY , IS A big must to return
and in dire need are these grave men who rather than conforming , RESISTED and did all
to do what was for the good of the Church . SO my advice to all is
LETS NOT be so fast to run them dire grave ones OFF . Lets not be so fast
to call them judgmental and haters who know not the love of GOD .
FOR ITS NOT THEY who DO not KNOW THE LOVE OF GOD
its all who sit under a harlots love who KNOW NOT THE LOVE OF GOD and buy a lie .

 

[amigo de christo]

Agreed.
We speak of a different gospel.
What could be more different than believing that Jesus is just a man/prophet,,,
whatever they believe - I'm not even sure what they believe.

Jesus said He and the Father are one.
He said before Abraham was I AM.
I AM means forever...before, during and after...forever.

The Apostles taught He is God.

There is only one faith.
Yes sir.

There is only ONE faith , one faith that s aves and one faith that pleases GOD .
And if one be calling GOD a liar , WELL THEN they AINT GOT IT .
Cause when GOD spoke abraham Believed GOD and he did not try and call GOD a liar .
HE SIMPLY BELIEVED GOD .
Many no longer do simply BELIEVE GOD . they beleive what they THINK is GOD , THINK IS LOVE
THINK is HIS CHRIST , THINK is HIS SPIRIT
and yet it is of the darkness . NOW where BE THE HOLY SPIRIT in THAT .
Cause LIGHT exposes darkness and what is in the darkness .
IT dont come along a shine another light that covers up the darkness and rather shines this light
upon lies , upon sins , upon unbleief as if its okay to overlook and even accept , NO that cometh of another .
And that one can indeed , THOUGH HE BE DARKNESS , appear as an angel of LIGHT .
And if the light that is in one be darkness , THEN GREAT IS THAT DARKNESS .
BIBLE TIME . This people is not gonna make it if they continue to sit under such leaders who have done
nothing but for years decieved them into another god and another jesus .
NO they willl simply merge with THE false religoins and all will believe it to be the very will and very peace of GOD .
WHEN IT WAS ALWAYS OF SATAN . OH YEAH its correction time and it is SURELY BIBLE TIME .

 

[amigo de christo]

Agreed.
We speak of a different gospel.
What could be more different than believing that Jesus is just a man/prophet,,,
whatever they believe - I'm not even sure what they believe.

Jesus said He and the Father are one.
He said before Abraham was I AM.
I AM means forever...before, during and after...forever.

The Apostles taught He is God.

There is only one faith.
Yes sir.

and what is it that you NOTICE is a key thing that has been g rowing even in christendom ,
THAT EVERY other relgion has always beleived .
TWO THINGS . Number one , the false relgions NEVER BELIEVED JESUS was God .
And two they never beleived in the dire need to EVEN HAVE to BELIEVE ON THIS SON OF GOD
for to be saved . And if they did holler jesus , IT was another jesus .
WOULD you like to know the why this has g rown even within christendom more and more over the years .
WELL in order to merge the religoins to be as one
YOU have to break down the concept that any one religoin IS the onl y way to GOD
AND if one religion cliams AS DOES THE TRUE CHRISTAIN religion that JESUS is not just a prophet
BUT rather THE WORD was GOD and did become flesh , THEN YOU DARN SURE HAVE TO REMOVE THAT .
Cause as i said YOU have to convince ALL religoins they have been serving the same GOD in different ways .
AND HOW MUCH the more MUST YOU REMOVE doctrine FROM ONE WHO was not merely a man
BUT OH SO MUCH MORE . YOU have to remove HIS CLIAM . or else IT STANDS IN THE WAY .
And that is exactly what they went to work to do my friend .
THEY said it , LONG ago , that the most dangerous thing in the way of world peace
WAS BIBLICAL CHRISTANITY . and so oh boy DID THEY GO TO WORK to remove CORE DOCTRINES
As they did also in the false religions .
As true as the prophets of GOD were in the torah , NONE OF THEM was the WORD that had become FLESH .
THOUGH THEY ALL SPOKE by HIS SPIRIT and would testify upon HE who was to come
HE who was before all that was , even was created . Imamnuel .
And unto us a child shall be given , and this child was not merely a prophet
but would be called the EVERLASTING GOD . IT WAS GOD who brought salvation
AND HE DID IT BY HIS OWN ARM . something no mere man could ever have done .
ONLY THAT WHICH THE VERY CREATOR WOULD HAVE TO DO .

 

[GodsGrace]

and what is it that you NOTICE is a key thing that has been g rowing even in christendom ,
THAT EVERY other relgion has always beleived .
TWO THINGS . Number one , the false relgions NEVER BELIEVED JESUS was God .
And two they never beleived in the dire need to EVEN HAVE to BELIEVE ON THIS SON OF GOD
for to be saved . And if they did holler jesus , IT was another jesus .
WOULD you like to know the why this has g rown even within christendom more and more over the years .
WELL in order to merge the religoins to be as one
YOU have to break down the concept that any one religoin IS the onl y way to GOD
AND if one religion cliams AS DOES THE TRUE CHRISTAIN religion that JESUS is not just a prophet
BUT rather THE WORD was GOD and did become flesh , THEN YOU DARN SURE HAVE TO REMOVE THAT .
Cause as i said YOU have to convince ALL religoins they have been serving the same GOD in different ways .
AND HOW MUCH the more MUST YOU REMOVE doctrine FROM ONE WHO was not merely a man
BUT OH SO MUCH MORE . YOU have to remove HIS CLIAM . or else IT STANDS IN THE WAY .
And that is exactly what they went to work to do my friend .
THEY said it , LONG ago , that the most dangerous thing in the way of world peace
WAS BIBLICAL CHRISTANITY . and so oh boy DID THEY GO TO WORK to remove CORE DOCTRINES
As they did also in the false religions .
As true as the prophets of GOD were in the torah , NONE OF THEM was the WORD that had become FLESH .
THOUGH THEY ALL SPOKE by HIS SPIRIT and would testify upon HE who was to come
HE who was before all that was , even was created . Imamnuel .
And unto us a child shall be given , and this child was not merely a prophet
but would be called the EVERLASTING GOD . IT WAS GOD who brought salvation
AND HE DID IT BY HIS OWN ARM . something no mere man could ever have done .
ONLY THAT WHICH THE VERY CREATOR WOULD HAVE TO DO .

Yes sir.
We agree.
Nothing much more left to be said.
You've said it all.

 

[amigo de christo]

Agreed.
We speak of a different gospel.
What could be more different than believing that Jesus is just a man/prophet,,,
whatever they believe - I'm not even sure what they believe.

Jesus said He and the Father are one.
He said before Abraham was I AM.
I AM means forever...before, during and after...forever.

The Apostles taught He is God.

There is only one faith.
Yes sir.

verily verily i do type unto this wayward generation and unto all
THAT when one removes THE DIETY OF CHRIST
they have bodly said IT WAS NOT GOD who saved us but rather just man that sav ed us .
And that simply IS NOT and was not the case .
Notice that GOD did not call upon an angel to take human form
Cause no angel could have done what was necessary for to save mankind .
In fact NONE COULD but GOD . And that be a fact .
AND IF ONE dishonors the SON then believe you me THEY DO DISHONOR THE FATHER .
And if you have seen ME phillip YOU have SEEN the FATHER .
And as a trembling long doubting thomas , WHO ON THAT DAY NO LONGER DOUBTED ,
But fell to his knees with a saying I AM SURE many would find offensive today ,
MY LORD AND MY GOD . And notice what this one who JOHN heard speak
and had said I AM alpha and omega , WOULD say to JOHN .
As john fell to his knees before THIS one who appeared as the SON of Man in heaven .
HE SAID I AM THE FIRST and the last . Someone been lying to this generation sister .
And it AINT GOD cause GOD DONT AND CANNOT LIE . its been the serpent and its co workers
that have been the liars all along . And now even say its not necessary TO EVEN HAVE HAD to BELIEVE ON THIS JESUS .
AGAIN another lie , cause THAT AINT WHAT JESUS said nor the apostels .