It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[CrowCross]

What I get is that you don't have a clue. That much is very clear to me.


I don't just suggest that. It's obvious. It's absolutely ludicrous to take that literally. To be consistent you should believe that He will literally slay people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth as well since that is also described in Revelation 19.

You still don't get it...EVEN IF Jesus doesn't return on a white horse and it's pure SYMBOLISM as you now need to suggest....Jesus didn't ascend with the same symbolism. Now you gotta deal with that or come up with something new.

LOL. What is this nonsense? If you use this kind of logic to relate scriptures together then you can't relate any two scriptures together and you end up believing in about 17 different future comings of Christ. Goodness sakes. Acts 1:9-11 says He will come from heaven in like manner as He ascended there. You can't think it means that in every possible way. When He left, only a small number of people saw Him. Should we assume that only a small number of people will see Him when He comes back then? Of course not. No, what we should understand from Acts 1:9-11 is that He will come visibly and bodily from heaven since that is the manner in which He ascended to heaven. There's no reason to read anymore into it than that.

For goodness sakes...anyone reading Acts 1 and Rev 19 should instantly see that they are extremely different events....then when you look at 1 Thes 4....you see the actual return and rapture and once again it's nothing like Rev 19.

But, if you need to justify it in your mind....go for it.

LOL. I don't need to deal with nonsense.


LOL. What else does the wife make herself ready for in Revelation 19:7 if not the marriage? It says the marriage of the Lamb has come at that point and the wife has made herself ready. Obviously, it's saying the wife will have made herself ready for the marriage at that point. It's very obvious. If you can't understand something as simple as this, I'm not sure what you can understand.

The verse speaks of a marriage and a supper...NOT a return. Why? That comes later.

 

[CrowCross]

Can you not address any of the multiple contradictions in your position? Do you have any alternative to avoidance?

Contradictions?????

 

[CrowCross]

1. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Thessalonians 2:3? If you can't then you must retract.
2. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Timothy 6:1? If you can't then you must retract.
3. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Timothy 4:1? If you can't then you must retract.
4. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Timothy 4:8? If you can't then you must retract.
5. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Titus 2:13? If you can't then you must retract.
6. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Hebrews 9:28? If you can't then you must retract.
7. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in James 5:7-9? If you can't then you must retract.
8. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Peter 1:7? If you can't then you must retract.
9. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Peter 5:4? If you can't then you must retract.
10. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 John 2:28-3:2? If you can't then you must retract.
11. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Jude 21? If you can't then you must retract.
12. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Revelation 2:25? If you can't then you must retract.
13. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Revelation 3:10? If you can't then you must retract.

I can't.....Jesus didn't leave on a white horse....which is why your argument falls apart. Even CPR won't be able to save it. Perhaps you should give your symbolic return a decent burial.

 

[Taken]

First of all, it is not the book of "Revelations" it is the book of "Revelation."

Which reveal”s” additional knowledge.

Secondly, your acknowledging that there is no mention of the catching away in the book of Revelation before a tribulation period is testimony that Pretrib is extra-biblical

No.
The ABSENCE of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture NOT being in the Book of Revelation…
Is Notice… it is NOT new Knowledge;
Is Notice… it is NOT an Expectation to Occur;
Is Notice… IT IS ALREADY PASSED, Fulfilled, Accomplished.

and confirms the Postrib thesis. That is why i say Pretrib is dead.

No.
It confirms… you are OF the World, standing with the group, WHO…
Neither Accepted, Trusted, Believed Christ Jesus’ …
* Offering;
* Promise;
* Calling;
* Fulfillment;
* Understanding

Its promoters admit that there is no Scripture that teaches its doctrine.

No.
That is your gaslighting, based on your own ignorance and Rejection of The Lord Fulfilling His Word to Escape and Deliver HIS SAVED, CHURCH, BRIDE unto Himself…
UP FROM the Face of the Earth and the Tribulations and Wrath from Heaven, expressly to be Sent down upon the Whole World and its Unrighteousness.

Pretribbers are incapable of showing a coming of the Lord followed by a tribulation followed by a third coming in God's Book. That is because it does not in the Bible.

LOL…
Patently False and Utter gaslighting nonsense.

The Lord descends (comes down) from high heaven to lower heaven…
The Lord calls UP to Him, His church, bride, that He saved!

Expressly taught in Scripture, you have been shown umpteen times.

The Saved as taught in Scripture Are Escaped, Delivered From the Tribulations and Wrath to be Sent down from Heaven.

It is quite Apparent you have Zero understanding OF WHY, the Saved ARE escaped, delivered FROM the brutal effects of the Tribulations and Wrath to be sent from Heaven upon the whole Earth.

And your gaslighting nonsense of “three comings”… you repeatedly pass off as pre-tribs beliefs is a flat out lie.

And your wondering WHY Revelation is Absent of Speaking of those Already having been Called UP to the Lord BY the Lord and WITH the Lord.
…
Duh… Revelation’s 6 forward Is not About Those Already Saved by Christ…

If you have already learned to tie your shoes … do you look for a book on how and why to tie your shoes?
Why look in Revelations for the Already Saved by Christ?
And seriously… Why repeatedly ask and demand others to SHOW you in Revelation’s, what is Not there!
And ignorantly blame Others for what they never claimed?

 

[WPM]

I can't.....Jesus didn't leave on a white horse....which is why your argument falls apart. Even CPR won't be able to save it. Perhaps you should give your symbolic return a decent burial.

That is because you do not grasp the symbolic nature of apocalyptic language and visionary descriptions. Check from Genesis to Revelation, and you will see that it is not the symbol being employed that matters but what the symbol represents.

Many read Revelation in such a way as to get it to fit their doctrine rather than read it to ascertain their doctrine. This is what it is to force a private interpretation upon the sacred text. The opposite is: let the Bible speak for itself!

Most Premillennialists do not grasp visionary, parables and apocalyptic language. It is typically metaphoric. Are we real sheep? Are the wicked really goats? Revelation is the most figurative book in the Bible, and you are trying to literalize it. You do not grasp the whole genre of it. You are not comparing Scripture with Scripture. You have no corroboration for your claims – nothing elsewhere in the Bible.

The kicker is: Premillennialists are incapable of corroborating the literal interpretation they apply to various figurative symbols in Revelation, with other scripture and a non-apocalyptic setting.

The reason you are unable to corroborate your insistence of Jesus coming on a white horse with any other Scripture demolishes your whole thesis. You hang on your own gallows, as I predicted.

 

[Davy]

Do tell, Since you claim to know who my teacher is Not…Identify my Teacher.

Your teacher is 'another spirit'... you just don't know it yet.

1 Thes. 4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

That phrase in red above is the future resurrection. When does God's Word declare when the resurrection will happen?

On the LAST DAY of this world, NOT prior to the tribulation.

John 6:39-40
39 And this is the Father's will Which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him That sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV

John 6:44
44 No man can come to Me, except the Father Which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV

John 6:54
54 Whoso eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV

Now if you are not smart enough to realize Apostle Paul was pointing to the future resurrection time on the last day of this world when those 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 events will happen, then you really are in trouble.

 

[WPM]

I can't.....Jesus didn't leave on a white horse....which is why your argument falls apart. Even CPR won't be able to save it. Perhaps you should give your symbolic return a decent burial.

Where is the coming of Christ in 1 Timothy 6:1? Is that a typo?

 

[WPM]

Contradictions?????

Countless!

1. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Thessalonians 2:3? If you can't then you must retract.
2. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Timothy 6:1? If you can't then you must retract.
3. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Timothy 4:1? If you can't then you must retract.
4. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Timothy 4:8? If you can't then you must retract.
5. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Titus 2:13? If you can't then you must retract.
6. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Hebrews 9:28? If you can't then you must retract.
7. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in James 5:7-9? If you can't then you must retract.
8. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Peter 1:7? If you can't then you must retract.
9. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Peter 5:4? If you can't then you must retract.
10. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 John 2:28-3:2? If you can't then you must retract.
11. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Jude 21? If you can't then you must retract.
12. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Revelation 2:25? If you can't then you must retract.
13. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Revelation 3:10? If you can't then you must retract.

 

[CrowCross]

That is because you do not grasp the symbolic nature of apocalyptic language and visionary descriptions.

LOL...Oh, and you do??? You're a symbol expert?

Perhaps you being an expert can provide all of us with a list of the Revelation symbols and with a bible based example why these symbols mean.

 

[Taken]

You still don't get it...EVEN IF Jesus doesn't return on a white horse and it's pure SYMBOLISM as you now need to suggest....Jesus didn't ascend with the same symbolism. Now you gotta deal with that or come up with something new.


For goodness sakes...anyone reading Acts 1 and Rev 19 should instantly see that they are extremely different events....then when you look at 1 Thes 4....you see the actual return and rapture and once again it's nothing like Rev 19.

But, if you need to justify it in your mind....go for it.

The verse speaks of a marriage and a supper...NOT a return. Why? That comes later.

The Wedding is one event in the grooms fathers house… clouds of Heaven, “Bride and Groom.”

The Marriage Supper is a secondary event on Earth, (the Place, Home, The Groom has prepared For His Wife)…
with invited Guests, celebrating the “Wife and Husband” having Entered into WED/LOCK… whereby… no divorce, separation…will ever take place.

Often, in a Jewish Marriage, the feasting and Celebration could last up to a week long!

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CrowCross]

Countless!

1. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Thessalonians 2:3? If you can't then you must retract.
2. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Timothy 6:1? If you can't then you must retract.
3. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Timothy 4:1? If you can't then you must retract.
4. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Timothy 4:8? If you can't then you must retract.
5. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Titus 2:13? If you can't then you must retract.
6. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Hebrews 9:28? If you can't then you must retract.
7. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in James 5:7-9? If you can't then you must retract.
8. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Peter 1:7? If you can't then you must retract.
9. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Peter 5:4? If you can't then you must retract.
10. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 John 2:28-3:2? If you can't then you must retract.
11. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Jude 21? If you can't then you must retract.
12. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Revelation 2:25? If you can't then you must retract.
13. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Revelation 3:10? If you can't then you must retract.

I've already answered it...respond to my response...
I can't.....Jesus didn't leave on a white horse....which is why your argument falls apart. Even CPR won't be able to save it. Perhaps you should give your symbolic return a decent burial.

 

[CrowCross]

Where is the coming of Christ in 1 Timothy 6:1? Is that a typo?

No typo.

Here is the verse....1I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:

I see this relating to Rev 20 11:15...but you see Revelations as purely symbolic...so, what does the symbolism mean?

 

[WPM]

LOL...Oh, and you do??? You're a symbol expert?

Perhaps you being an expert can provide all of us with a list of the Revelation symbols and with a bible based example why these symbols mean.

Your hyper-literal approach to Revelation does not add up. You seem to miss the nature of the figurative genre.

1. Are these creatures full of eyes with 6 wings (Revelation 4:6) literal?
2. Who is this literal 7-eyed lamb (Revelation 5:6)?
3. Who are these people who are talking to mountains (Revelation 6:16)?
4. How can people be washed clean by blood (Revelation 7:14)?
5. Are the locusts with human faces (Revelation 9:7) literal?
6. Where can we find literal lion-headed horses (Revelation 9:17)?
7. Who are these literal fire-breathing prophets (Revelation 11:5)?
8. Is this woman clothed with the sun while standing on the moon (Revelation 12:1) a literal woman?
9. Is this woman with two wings flying like a great eagle (Revelation 12:14) a literal woman?
10. Do you believe this blood-drinking harlot (Revelation 17:6) is a literal woman?
11. Do you know an obese woman big enough to sit on seven hills at the one time?
12. Is this a literal serpent vomiting out a river (Revelation 12:15)?
13. Do you believe this 7-headed beast with 10 horns (Revelation 13:1) is a literal animal?
14. Are these real frogs coming out of the mouth of a dragon (Revelation 16:13)?
15. Do you know any real living obese women that can sit on 7 mountains at the same time (Revelation 17:9)?
16. Do you believe that a literal sword will come out of Jesus’ mouth which He will slay all the wicked with (Revelation 19:21)?

 

[WPM]

I can't.....Jesus didn't leave on a white horse....which is why your argument falls apart. Even CPR won't be able to save it. Perhaps you should give your symbolic return a decent burial.

So, you're expecting Christ to literally return from heaven on a white horse with many crowns on his head, and with a literal sharp sword coming out of His mouth?

 

[CrowCross]

Your hyper-literal approach to Revelation does not add up. You seem to miss the nature of the figurative genre.

1. Are these creatures full of eyes with 6 wings (4:6) literal?
2. Who is this literal 7-eyed lamb (5:6)?
3. Who are these people who are talking to mountains (6:16)?
4. How can people be washed clean by blood (7:14)?
5. Are the locusts with human faces (9:7) literal?
6. Where can we find literal lion-headed horses (9:17)?
7. Who are these literal fire-breathing prophets (11:5)?
8. Is this woman clothed with the sun while standing on the moon (12:1) a literal woman?
9. Is this woman with two wings flying like a great eagle (Rev 12:14) a literal woman?
10. Do you believe this blood-drinking harlot (17:6) is a literal woman?
11. Do you know an obese woman big enough to sit on seven hills at the one time?Is this a literal serpent vomiting out a river (12:15)?
12. Do you believe this 7-headed beast with 10 horns (13:1) is a literal animal?
13. Are these real frogs coming out of the mouth of a dragon (16:13)?

You forget....I never said revelations doesn't contain symbolism. Much of it is literal.
Often the symbolism describes the literal.
Have you ever heard of the saying...you're like a bull in a china shop?
Jesus was a literal person...described as a gate...Does this mean Jesus was made of wood and hung on a door post?

Rev 8 describes a catastrophic event....I've asked you to research April 13, 2029 and the asteroid Apophis.
The name "Apophis" comes from the ancient Egyptian god of chaos and destruction.

Is Revelation 8 purely SYMBOLIC as you claim or could it be literal described in a language John understood and used to convey the message?

 

[WPM]

I've already answered it...respond to my response...
I can't.....Jesus didn't leave on a white horse....which is why your argument falls apart. Even CPR won't be able to save it. Perhaps you should give your symbolic return a decent burial.

The symbolism in Revelation typically describes literal events/realities/truths.

 

[Taken]

Countless!

1. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Thessalonians 2:3? If you can't then you must retract.
2. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Timothy 6:1? If you can't then you must retract.
3. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Timothy 4:1? If you can't then you must retract.
4. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 2 Timothy 4:8? If you can't then you must retract.
5. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Titus 2:13? If you can't then you must retract.
6. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Hebrews 9:28? If you can't then you must retract.
7. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in James 5:7-9? If you can't then you must retract.
8. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Peter 1:7? If you can't then you must retract.
9. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 Peter 5:4? If you can't then you must retract.
10. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in 1 John 2:28-3:2? If you can't then you must retract.
11. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Jude 21? If you can't then you must retract.
12. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Revelation 2:25? If you can't then you must retract.
13. Show me where Jesus left on a white horse in Revelation 3:10? If you can't then you must retract.

He that is called Faithful and True…rides upon a white horse, with His Army also upon White Horses… prepared to make War Against the Devil and his army of fallen angels…

It is a Battle / War IN the Sky, BETWEEN SPIRITS-human eyes can Not See.

Humans ARE Notified of the Battle/War TO understand WHO is Victorious and WHO is Defeated… and the Consequence of the Defeated.

The Saved, by Christ Jesus… Wedded to Their Groom, Are Fully Expecting to Be Going to their Husbands Home He prepared for His Wife…
Hello… That Home is The Lords Kingdom ON Earth!!!

No worries for the Wife… the Devil and his Army of anti-Christs…. Will NOT be ON the Earth!!

And also … a model example for prospective Couple who may be considering Marriage.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[JimKnox]

Oh My error.
Thought you learned from schooling you mentioned.

Hand held computers did not exist at that time.
The learning curve is steep for these stupid phone keyboards.

 

[CrowCross]

The symbolism in Revelation typically describes literal events/realities/truths.

I don't disagree.

 

[WPM]

Which reveal”s” additional knowledge.

No.
The ABSENCE of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture NOT being in the Book of Revelation…
Is Notice… it is NOT new Knowledge;
Is Notice… it is NOT an Expectation to Occur;
Is Notice… IT IS ALREADY PASSED, Fulfilled, Accomplished.


No.
It confirms… you are OF the World, standing with the group, WHO…
Neither Accepted, Trusted, Believed Christ Jesus’ …
* Offering;
* Promise;
* Calling;
* Fulfillment;
* Understanding


No.
That is your gaslighting, based on your own ignorance and Rejection of The Lord Fulfilling His Word to Escape and Deliver HIS SAVED, CHURCH, BRIDE unto Himself…
UP FROM the Face of the Earth and the Tribulations and Wrath from Heaven, expressly to be Sent down upon the Whole World and its Unrighteousness.


LOL…
Patently False and Utter gaslighting nonsense.

The Lord descends (comes down) from high heaven to lower heaven…
The Lord calls UP to Him, His church, bride, that He saved!

Expressly taught in Scripture, you have been shown umpteen times.

The Saved as taught in Scripture Are Escaped, Delivered From the Tribulations and Wrath to be Sent down from Heaven.

It is quite Apparent you have Zero understanding OF WHY, the Saved ARE escaped, delivered FROM the brutal effects of the Tribulations and Wrath to be sent from Heaven upon the whole Earth.

And your gaslighting nonsense of “three comings”… you repeatedly pass off as pre-tribs beliefs is a flat out lie.

And your wondering WHY Revelation is Absent of Speaking of those Already having been Called UP to the Lord BY the Lord and WITH the Lord.
…
Duh… Revelation’s 6 forward Is not About Those Already Saved by Christ…

If you have already learned to tie your shoes … do you look for a book on how and why to tie your shoes?
Why look in Revelations for the Already Saved by Christ?
And seriously… Why repeatedly ask and demand others to SHOW you in Revelation’s, what is Not there!
And ignorantly blame Others for what they never claimed?

You are arguing from silence. You have nothing.