It is time to give Pretrib a decent burial

[Spiritual Israelite]

You determined the “symbolism”, then applied it to numbers.

Do you think the word "thousand" is supposed to be taken literally in the following verses...

Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills.

Deuteronomy 7:9 “Therefore know that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I suppose you could go down that road...but it doesn't make sense that the bride would make her self ready...then jump on a white horse and return to earth with Jesus. Maybe in your mind it works.

It's not talking about literally riding white horses. Good grief. Why do you take symbolism literally? Do you think Jesus will literally slay people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth at that time, too?

Then again you said "The marriage supper does not occur prior to the Revelation 19 return of Jesus."....so, let me ask you...how do you know that and when does it take place?

I already showed you. Revelation 19:7 talks about the wife making herself ready for the marriage. You have the marriage already taking place before that. It obviously will take place after Jesus descends from heaven, not before.

 

[CrowCross]

It's not talking about literally riding white horses. Good grief. Why do you take symbolism literally? Do you think Jesus will literally slay people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth at that time, too?

You still don't get it...EVEN IF Jesus doesn't return on a white horse and it's pure SYMBOLISM as you now ned to suggest....Jesus didn't ascend with the same symbolism. Now you gotta deal with that or come up with something new.

I already showed you. Revelation 19:7 talks about the wife making herself ready for the marriage. You have the marriage already taking place before that. It obviously will take place after Jesus descends from heaven, not before.

Obviously? Why? How do you know? It sounds as if you're speculating. I don't mind if you speculate...just say it. Don't present it as "obvious" factual information.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You still don't get it.

What I get is that you don't have a clue. That much is very clear to me.

..EVEN IF Jesus doesn't return on a white horse and it's pure SYMBOLISM as you now ned to suggest.

I don't just suggest that. It's obvious. It's absolutely ludicrous to take that literally. To be consistent you should believe that He will literally slay people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth as well since that is also described in Revelation 19.

...Jesus didn't ascend with the same symbolism.

LOL. What is this nonsense? If you use this kind of logic to relate scriptures together then you can't relate any two scriptures together and you end up believing in about 17 different future comings of Christ. Goodness sakes. Acts 1:9-11 says He will come from heaven in like manner as He ascended there. You can't think it means that in every possible way. When He left, only a small number of people saw Him. Should we assume that only a small number of people will see Him when He comes back then? Of course not. No, what we should understand from Acts 1:9-11 is that He will come visibly and bodily from heaven since that is the manner in which He ascended to heaven. There's no reason to read anymore into it than that.

Now you gotta deal with that or come up with something new.

LOL. I don't need to deal with nonsense.

Obviously? Why? How do you know? It sounds as if you're speculating. I don't mind if you speculate...just say it. Don't present it as "obvious" factual information.

LOL. What else does the wife make herself ready for in Revelation 19:7 if not the marriage? It says the marriage of the Lamb has come at that point and the wife has made herself ready. Obviously, it's saying the wife will have made herself ready for the marriage at that point. It's very obvious. If you can't understand something as simple as this, I'm not sure what you can understand.

 

[Taken]

You believe in a pre-trib rapture,

Yes.

so you do believe that Jesus will descend from heaven 2 times in the future.

No.

You apparently have a problem with me stating what you believe.

Yes. You speak lies, I did not say.

LOL. Are you just playing games?

No. Not playing the game of you deciding my beliefs.

As anyone else but you can understand, I'm saying that the idea of a pre-trib rapture is only supposed by people like you and can't be proven using scripture.

The Lords Calling TO Him, is to Those He Saved.

2Thes. 1
[11] Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2Thes 2:
[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

So, it's a supposed pre-trib rapture …

No.

You appear to fail to understand…
Jesus’ coming…
* Is from high heavens TO the lower heavens…clouds.
He stays in the lower heavens calling up to Him His Faithful IN Christ.
* IS then from the lower Heavens TO a Single WHITE Cloud…appearing as The Son of Man… for All to See Him…
and With Him…(unseen by human men), His Angels and His Faithful IN Christ.
* IS then on His White horse, with His Soldiers, battling / defeating Satan and his angels, sending them off the face of the Earth.
* IS then Returned To Earth…to His Kingdom (Abraham’s inherited promised land) and His throne (king Davids everlasting throne God Established for Descendants of the House of David to inherit).
* then IS His One Time Return Accomplished.

 

[Taken]

Do Do you think the word "thousand" is supposed to be taken literally in the following verses...

Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills.

Deuteronomy 7:9 “Therefore know that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

What I think… / believe is God can NOT lie…

You want to challenge Gods word…why attempt to solicit me to join in your charade, when I clearly oppose your undermining Gods word.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes.


No.

Yes. You speak lies, I did not say.

You imply that Jesus will come down from heaven 2 more times in the future with your pre-trib rapture belief. Hello? You believe He will descend from heaven for the pre-trib rapture, right? And then turn around and bring the church with Him back to heaven, right? So, there's one time you believev He will descend from heaven. And then you believe He will descend from heaven again years later at His return. Right? So, that's 2 future times that you believe Jesus will descend from heaven. How can that be a lie when that's what you and all pre-tribs believe?

No. Not playing the game of you deciding my beliefs.

The Lords Calling TO Him, is to Those He Saved.

2Thes. 1
[11] Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2Thes 2:
[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

That will not be pre-trib. That is something you suppose, but is not taught in scripture. So, that's why I call it a supposed pre-trib rapture.

No.

You appear to fail to understand…
Jesus’ coming…
* Is from high heavens TO the lower heavens…clouds.

I don't fail to understand that. When did I say otherwise? He is in the third heaven/paradise now and will descend from their to the first or second heaven ("the air") and that's where we will meet Him.

He stays in the lower heavens calling up to Him His Faithful IN Christ.

Yes, and then He will take vengeance on unbelievers with sudden destruction from which they shall not escape (1 Thess 4:14-5:3, 2 Thess 1:7-10).

* IS then from the lower Heavens TO a Single WHITE Cloud…appearing as The Son of Man… for All to See Him…
and With Him…(unseen by human men), His Angels and His Faithful IN Christ.
* IS then on His White horse, with His Soldiers, battling / defeating Satan and his angels, sending them off the face of the Earth.
* IS then Returned To Earth…to His Kingdom (Abraham’s inherited promised land) and His throne (king Davids everlasting throne God Established for Descendants of the House of David to inherit).
* then IS His One Time Return Accomplished.

That was as clear as mud. You don't believe that when He comes for the supposed pre-trib rapture that He will then take His people to the third heaven/paradise and then He will later descend with them at His return? If not, then you have a belief all to yourself because every other pre-trib I've talked to believes that He will descend from heaven (third heaven), we'll be gathered to Him and then He later will return with the church from heaven.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What I think… / believe is God can NOT lie…

You want to challenge Gods word…why attempt to solicit me to join in your charade, when I clearly oppose your undermining Gods word.

You think God's word containing symbolism would be lying? Goodness sakes. Do you not acknowledge any symbolism in the Bible? How am I undermining God's word by seeing that it contains some symbolism? Are you for real?