Connecting the dots = a pre-tribulation rapture.

[ScottA]

Well... hmmmm again... <smile> So we are not yet born again and of God... even though we are told we are... have been... <scratching head...smile> ...as notably as anywhere else by Paul in Ephesians 2 and Peter in 1 Peter 1. Yeah, I disagree with you there. I do agree that we will no longer be in this age (this current age will have ended), that we will be in the age which still as of now is yet to come, eternity...

As for these things being rapturous, yes, but I would say that for each of us, it may not have felt like it... we may not even remember it, especially if it happened early enough in our life... but our being born again was for each of us very rapturous. Since then, we are His. And He ours. From "once slaves of sin" to now "obedient from the heart," and "set free from sin" and now "slaves of righteousness"... "slaves of God, the fruit (we) get lead(ing) to sanctification and its end, eternal life" (Romans 6)... yes, that's quite the radical, rapturous change.

Oh, we who are in Christ certainly are born again and of God! This is the first resurrection. But, while it is a rapturous experience for some even in the flesh, it is not for all, for unlike the poor in spirit, the flesh still has a blinding effect on many who are strong. Therefore, the full and rapturous effect will not come until the flesh that restrains is taken out of the way.

As for eternity, it comes that very moment of passing from death to life--that moment experienced even in the flesh by those born again of the spirit of God.

 

[ScottA]

One more time: Hmmmm... As I and others have said, this is about the end of the age and the final judgment... its coming without warning and its suddenness is Jesus's context here.

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

That is indeed what is taught--but I have told you the truth--"the one is taken and the other left" that very moment of passing from death to life..."at an hour you do not expect."

 

[rebuilder 454]

???????? That is not what I said and you know it.

Have a nice day

If you are postrib rapture, you are owning a Noah gathering post flood.
Every postribber paints himself into numerous corners.

If it is not a gathering into the ark pretrib, then your model has Noah gathered how?
What exactly is a Noah gathering postrib.?
( your postrib rapture interpretation, combining the Noah story, by Jesus, and the rapture?)
Or maybe there is no rapture post flood?

Or maybe the "wicked person rapture pretrib with half of earths population born again" is a bad model you guys invented?

 

[CrowCross]

???????? That is not what I said and you know it.

Have a nice day

It's hard to tell just what you have said.

 

[CrowCross]

That's not what he said, either. Why are you resorting to misrepresenting what he said? It must be because you have no idea how to address what he actually said.

He tried to use getting on the boat as some sort of answer to the social economic conditions of the day....which was strange.

In the end it sounded like @jeffweeder was presenting a theology christians are only raptured after the tribulation...which is him saying Noah got on the ark after the flood.

I trust you stand corrected.

 

[CrowCross]

No, your mind is closed because you clearly are not willing to even consider anything but what you've probably been taught your whole life.

At one time or another I've been all views as I've studied them then settled on the pre-trib truth.

LOL! That's the question I should be asking you. You seem to have no understanding of it at all.

I forgot you're the ultimate authority on Revelation.

Have you ever taken the time to understand that Revelation is very symbolic and should not be taken as literally as you do?

Have you ever taken the time to see just how literal Revelation can be? Often the literal is presented in symbolic form.

 

[amigo de christo]

TRUE


FALSE



Funny

verily verily i do type unto thee , that by the POWER of the HOLY GHOST and the reading of the scriptures ,
I already connected the dots that lead to pre trib . And guess what it led too
A POWEDER KEG that is gonna explode upon them all as many take the mark , as many see this peace plan
as being OF GOD and not of the anti christ it was . And all because the dots they connected
WERE NOT of THE SPIRIT of GOD but of men who twisted this HOLY GODs own words to fit a lie .
IF one is connecting the dots to what they THINK IS TRUTH and have done so by the doctrines of men gone wrong
WELL lets just say ERROR can only beget more error
and that TRUTH only agrees WITH TRUTH and never would TRUTH have twisted TRUTH in order to fit A LIE .
SOmeone else d oes that . And that someone is WHO JESUS FREED US FROM my friend .
SO what is the motto of the sheep david ,
OH I SAY AGAIN FOR ALL TO READ THIS ,
WHAT IS , i say WHAT IS the motto of the sheep . LET GOD BE T RUE BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR .

 

[amigo de christo]

In Bible Study Rule 1b, how would you define "corrupt communication"?

Lets see , how would i define corrupt communciation .
ANY MANNER OF SPEAKING or Action , or even thought that CONTRADICTS THE ONE TRUE GOD and HIS WORDS
How about THAT . pretty simple if ya ask me .

 

[PinSeeker]

As for a place of the Judgement, no certainly not a "Look here" location "in the desert...or the inner rooms." But not limited to all the Earth either--not worldwide at all--but all of Heaven and Earth.

There will be no judgment in heaven. When the final judgement is executed ~ by Christ Jesus, of course ~ heaven will be "brought down to us," as John "saw," and we "see" in Revelation 21:1-8. And, as the old hymn goes, heaven and earth will be one.

As for "the same way you saw him go into heaven"--was it the way of this world, or the way of the Kingdom?

<chuckles> Um, yes. <smile> It was what it was, and it will be what it will be... the same way.

Let there be no doubt--the Way, is not the way of this world as so many believe.

I agree, but that's kind of a non sequitur...

Oh, we who are in Christ certainly are born again and of God!

Well good; you seemed to be saying otherwise.

This is the first resurrection.

Agreed. We are "raised up with Him and seated with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus." Absolutely.

But, while it is a rapturous experience for some even in the flesh, it is not for all....

Right, humanly, or experientially speaking, right. I think I would use a term like momentous, like a "mountain-top experience," or something like that. I think many would say they don't even remember the exact time of their conversion, their being born again, because it was just something that seemed to happen over time, or something like that, rather than some instantaneous, rock-bottom to sky-high thing. But as for rapturous, I would say it is that, whether we realize it or not. Our hearts have been raptured to the Lord.

...for unlike the poor in spirit, the flesh still has a blinding effect on many who are strong.

Ah, well you know, Jesus says, "Blessed are the poor in spirit..." You know that, so yeah "... for theirs is the kingdom of heaven..." (Matthew 5:3). I'm not sure we understand that in the same way... <smile> I would say that those who are born again realize their being poor in spirit... so realizing their need of a savior, of Jesus, because they are no longer dead in their sin, no longer spiritually dead. You also know, I'm sure ~ although your understanding of this too may differ from mine ~ that His strength is made perfect in our weakness, so we can boast all the more gladly of our weaknesses, and in this way the power of Christ may rest upon us (2 Corinhians 12:9).

Therefore, the full and rapturous effect will not come until the flesh that restrains is taken out of the way.

As for eternity, it comes that very moment of passing from death to life--that moment experienced even in the flesh by those born again of the spirit of God.

Eternity is still the age to come... is not here yet. But it will be. But yes, in part at least, the joy that will be ours in eternity enters into the present, even in the sorrow and sighing that we still, for now, experience.

...I have told you the truth...

Well, what you think is the truth... <smile> ...and hey, right back at me, yeah? <smile>

You know, maybe we're not so much disagreeing as we are just "missing each other," so to speak, at least to some extent. Much of what you say seems... well, "super-spiritual," or "hyper-spiritual"... kind of "new age-y"... to me,,, at least to some extent "head-in-the-clouds" sounding... which there is no need or call for, and really is, well, cultic. I'm not saying you are, but... You may take offense at that; sorry, unintended...

--"the one is taken and the other left" that very moment of passing from death to life..."at an hour you do not expect."

Some of us have already passed from death to life. I thought we agreed on that... <smile> Right, though, Jesus will return (Matthew 24:42-44, to be specific)... "the Son of Man is coming at an hour (we) do not expect." Sudden, unexpected, and without warning, as I have said... Jesus will take His own to Himself. I guess we at least agree that He'll not be "removing" us or, you know, taking us anywhere... <smile>

So, this "passing from death to life"... this is yet another ~ for those of us who have been born again of the Spirit and are thus of God ~ now-and-not-yet thing. We have eternal life now (I think you agree), but not in its fullness, because eternity, the age to come, has not yet begun, and the One Who Himself is the life... the way, the truth, and the life... has not yet returned... <smile> This concept of now-and-not-yet... inaugurated but not yet consummated... is throughout Scripture and can be applied to so many things, to the eternal life, to the Kingdom, and even to salvation itself. As Paul puts it, now in part, but then in full. We see it in what he says in 1 Corinthians 13:12, "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." But it is an absolute certainty, so we can live as if all these things are a reality now, as much as is possible in this world.

Even so, Lord Jesus, come quickly...

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

 

[ScottA]

There will be no judgment in heaven. When the final judgement is executed ~ by Christ Jesus, of course ~ heaven will be "brought down to us," as John "saw," and we "see" in Revelation 21:1-8. And, as the old hymn goes, heaven and earth will be one.

I tell you--the Judgement was even before the foundation of the world--before the world began--as was the Lamb slain.

 

[ScottA]

<chuckles> Um, yes. <smile> It was what it was, and it will be what it will be... the same way.

I agree, but that's kind of a non sequitur...

I tell you--the Way spoken of in the scriptures, is the way of the Kingdom--in spirit, as God is spirit.

 

[ScottA]

Eternity is still the age to come... is not here yet. But it will be. But yes, in part at least, the joy that will be ours in eternity enters into the present, even in the sorrow and sighing that we still, for now, experience.

There is no "age" to come per se, but rather eternity. Which is only "to come" in the sense that those who pass from death to life do so hereafter. Which is only true from the perspective of this world--a perspective of the dead referred to in their own language--which perspective also passes away, leaving only eternity...which always was and shall be.

 

[ScottA]

Well, what you think is the truth... <smile> ...and hey, right back at me, yeah? <smile>

You know, maybe we're not so much disagreeing as we are just "missing each other," so to speak, at least to some extent. Much of what you say seems... well, "super-spiritual," or "hyper-spiritual"... kind of "new age-y"... to me,,, at least to some extent "head-in-the-clouds" sounding... which there is no need or call for, and really is, well, cultic. I'm not saying you are, but... You may take offense at that; sorry, unintended...

No. On the contrary, it is given to me to [actually] know, for mine is the finish. Therefore, when I tell you, "I tell you the truth"--it is not from me--not mine, but from God.

"Super-spiritual" is accurate, for it is of God. As for "no call for"--that is not true--the call of God is of God, and He calls when and who He please according to His own will and plan, as it is written.

None of which you have to believe, and you can call it what you will. But that speaks of you and your will, not me or mine.

 

[amigo de christo]

I tell you--the Way spoken of in the scriptures, is the way of the Kingdom--in spirit, as God is spirit.

as i was led so must i now type .
Guess what came to me real simple when i was reading these to and fros ab out speculation
on this .
THIS DID .
If anyone here is attached in any way , shape , form or fashion
to an harlots love , to her all inclusive love and her all inclusive god
To her intefaith , to her co exist
TO her lets just find common ground
IT WONT MATTER . cause ON JESUS DAY THEY ARE ALL GOING DOWN UNDER THE WRATH and RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT of GOD .
SO my advice, GET far from the judge nots who always talk about a love THEY THINK is of GOD
and yet know neither GOD or HIS LOVE . Face fact and face them we all must now do .
cause frankly it ain t gonna mat ter
how close one was to the explanation of this new heaven , this new earth , this coming of JESUS ,
IF THEY SAT under satans lov e , under his peace , under his unity , under his anything
THEY ALL GOING DOWN . That is why i expose ANYTHING
contrary to a word of JESUS , to HIS GOSPEL which later EVERY LAST APOSTEL to include paul preached .
THERE IS NO TWO GOSPELS . THERE IS NO universal salvation , THERE IS NO
well that list can get real long . THERE BE ONLY GOD and HIS EVERY WORD IS TRUTH , HIS WORD IS TRUTH
AND JESUS IS HIS WORD and all those words HE spoke ARE TRUTH and are LIFE , SPIRIT and LIFE .
THAT ol ancient book known as and called the BIBLE . SHOULD never a word one of it
been replaced by man nor should man , angel , talking donkey or any EVER twiseted it , OMITED parts , added to it
with their own precepts of men . Many gonna howl . AND YOU NEED TO KNOW AND TO HEAR THIS as well .
MANY i say are gonna howl with such a sound of t otal hopeless ON JESUS DAY
as they cast into a place no man , no not anything b orn of woman , no n ot the devil or any
Would ever wanted to have gone . NOW we better GET off our HIGH HORSES as though we some great and mighty voice
of GOD or any other thing contrary T OGOD , and open bible again for our own selves .

 

[ScottA]

Some of us have already passed from death to life. I thought we agreed on that... <smile> Right, though, Jesus will return (Matthew 24:42-44, to be specific)... "the Son of Man is coming at an hour (we) do not expect." Sudden, unexpected, and without warning, as I have said... Jesus will take His own to Himself. I guess we at least agree that He'll not be "removing" us or, you know, taking us anywhere... <smile>

So, this "passing from death to life"... this is yet another ~ for those of us who have been born again of the Spirit and are thus of God ~ now-and-not-yet thing. We have eternal life now (I think you agree), but not in its fullness, because eternity, the age to come, has not yet begun, and the One Who Himself is the life... the way, the truth, and the life... has not yet returned... <smile> This concept of now-and-not-yet... inaugurated but not yet consummated... is throughout Scripture and can be applied to so many things, to the eternal life, to the Kingdom, and even to salvation itself. As Paul puts it, now in part, but then in full. We see it in what he says in 1 Corinthians 13:12, "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." But it is an absolute certainty, so we can live as if all these things are a reality now, as much as is possible in this world.

Even so, Lord Jesus, come quickly...

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

There is still a lot of speculation in what you believe and voice. But I am not speculating or merely weighing in with my two cents--as I have already said.

But that speculation is in the way of you seeing clearly, fully. Let me ask you, Was Jesus not eternal, or as you say, a "not-yet thing" when He walked the earth in the flesh? If you say, No, you are mistaken. If you say, Yes, why then do you who have been crucified with Him--born again and having Him in you and you in Him, say "not-yet?" I tell you the truth--it is because you restrain your own self, thinking less of what is written than is true.

As for those passages that would seem to agree with your "not-yet" ideas--they were for those who say "not-yet." But the same Paul who was sympathetic in his teaching pressed on to what he also said he had "not yet" attained, to say, "for me, to live is Christ." All of which he did to preserve the times remaining of these times of the gentiles--that he "might save some" even after these many generations. But I tell you the truth--that it was because his was the beginning, not the finish.

 

[amigo de christo]

There is still a lot of speculation in what you believe and voice. But I am not speculating or merely weighing in with my two cents--as I have already said.

But that speculation is in the way of you seeing clearly, fully. Let me ask you, Was Jesus not eternal, or as you say, a "not-yet thing" when He walked the earth in the flesh? If you say, No, you are mistaken. If you say, Yes, why then do you who have been crucified with Him--born again and having Him in you and you in Him, say "not-yet?" I tell you the truth--it is because you restrain your own self, thinking less of what is written than is true.

As for those passages that would seem to agree with your "not-yet" ideas--they were for those who say "not-yet." But the same Paul who was sympathetic in his teaching pressed on to what he also said he had "not yet" attained, to say, "for me, to live is Christ." All of which he did to preserve the times remaining of these times of the gentiles--the he "might save some" even after these many generations. But I tell you the truth--that is was his was the beginning, not the finish.

oh thanks for the prayers you put on my response .
IF you dont mind , however , answering why or why not you may or may not agree with what i wrote .
Dont just hug me to hell like almost all the entire realm of christendom now does to so very many .
IF YOU SEE error , YOU correct the error . cause you KNOW I WILL WHEN I SEE IT .
Not cause i am better than any of you , but because i desire GOOD for you all . So
was there error in what i wrote . Or do you agree with it .

 

[ScottA]

oh thanks for the prayers you put on my response .
IF you dont mind , however , answering why or why not you may or may not agree with what i wrote .
Dont just hug me to hell like almost all the entire realm of christendom now does to so very many .
IF YOU SEE error , YOU correct the error . cause you KNOW I WILL WHEN I SEE IT .
Not cause i am better than any of you , but because i desire GOOD for you all . So
was there error in what i wrote . Or do you agree with it .

You spoke well.

Even so, many do not understand that the day of Jesus Christ--is not a mass future event--but a "today" event, when Christ knocks on that door within each person in their own time--and they open to Him. Which comes to each one, as it is written, "but each one in his own order."

 

[amigo de christo]

You spoke well.

Even so, many do not understand that the day of Jesus Christ--is not a mass future event--but a "today" event, when Christ knocks on that door within each person in their own time--and they open to Him. Which comes to each one, as it is written, "but each one in his own order."

sorry scott but only in part you had been right . TIS True that JESUS indwells The beleiver
and its true they have been ressurected from death unto life .
BUT JUST AS TRUE is the FACT that JESUS IS COMING again the second time . NOW WHEN HE DO
its to lay d own the WRATH OF GOD against any and against all that fell for aharlots love and thus denied Him .

 

[Marvelloustime]

sorry scott but only in part you had been right . TIS True that JESUS indwells The beleiver
and its true they have been ressurected from death unto life .
BUT JUST AS TRUE is the FACT that JESUS IS COMING again the second time . NOW WHEN HE DO
its to lay d own the WRATH OF GOD against any and against all that fell for aharlots love and thus denied Him .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo
View attachment 90293

meanwhile the sheep fly home to the glorious LORD . for we who are still alive shall not preceed those who sleep in Christ .
FOR a great and mighty trumpet shall sound , the last trumpet and the dead in CHRIST shall arise
and we are who still here shall be caught up with THEM , TO FOREVER , AND PRAISE GOD TOO , be WITH THE LORD .
And THAT be THE DAY the sheep look FORWARD TOO my dear sister . JESUS DAY . home forever with HIM .
AND what A LOVELY DAY of all days that SHALL BE for the sheep . HOME .
Forever HOME WITH THE LORD . SOUNDS LIKE PARADISE TO ME SISTER . and IT IS PARADISE INDEED .