IS THERE ONLY WATER BAPTISM?

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Titus

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++++No he's not wrong
++++modern doctrine is wrong.

Agreed and I'm quoting Scripture not modern doctrine
1 Cor 15.1-4, Eph 1.13, Col 2.13 Saved, sealed, forgiven by trusting in the death burial resurrection
Titu 3.5-7, Rom 3.28, Gal 2.16, Rom 4.5, Eph 2.8-9, Rom 5.1 no mention of water baptism as a requirement to be saved
1 Cor 1.17 for Christ sent me not to baptize...
If WATER baptism is required today to be saved, where does Jesus via Paul teach that is the case ?
First, I need to know if you believe only Paul is our apostle today?
I believe all the apostles taught the same gospel for all time.
So what Peter taught is applicable for us today as is Paul's teaching.

The scriptures must harmonize.
If what I believe causes conflict/contradiction with some passages. Then I know my beliefs are in error.

You are correct that many new testament verses teach faith saves and say nothing about baptism.
And therefore faith absolutely saves.
But there are NT verses that teach baptism saves. The scriptures dont contradict. Therefore we can harmonize all passages on salvation.

For example I believe you must repent in Jesus' NT gospel to be saved.
I hope you do too. But I know not everyone does unfortunately.

Let's look at John 3:16,
- for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life

This is 100% Biblical truth.
Notice believing in Jesus one can recieve eternal life.
Is that the sum or the whole gospel explained in this one verse?
Many believe so but they are mistaken.

Where in John 3:16 does it teach you must repent?
Nowhere!!!
Yet Jesus requires repentance to be saved.
To understand how Jesus' gospel saves you must not cherry pick only verses that teach on belief.
You must study all that is said that saves man. Then you rightly harmonize the NT gospel unto salvation.

Its simple.
 

mailmandan

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If you don't believe, baptism is a moot point. Baptism is required of the believer and has nothing whatsoever with the non-believer. It makes ZERO sense to insinuate orherwise.
Sadly, there have been numerous people over the years (especially those in various false religions and cults) who have been water baptized but did not truly believe in Jesus unto salvation without even realizing it. Now such people may believe "mental assent" in the existence of Jesus Christ and in certain historical facts about Jesus Christ, but they did not believe in/have faith in/trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation but instead also trust in water baptism + other works for salvation.

Now such people go on to be water baptized anyway because they are trusting in water baptism for salvation. I know first-hand because I used to be one of them and I know many other people who were in the same boat. Upon coming to believe the gospel later on, many people have been re-baptized (including myself) and this time it was "believers" baptism. If you can believe that EVERYONE who has ever been water baptized and "claimed" to be a born again Christian truly was a born again Christian, then you can believe anything!
 

GRACE ambassador

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ONE Baptism today, Under God's Amazing Grace?:

Which Is It?
Each of us will study and decide for our own self, right?:

I choose out of these Three, Only ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism "By The Holy Spirit":

Three Baptism Scriptural Summary!:

LORD JESUS, please open our hearts to All of Thy Truth. Amen:


Prophecy/Law: ►►► The Twelve WERE SENT to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO "Main" (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins!:
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts 10:37)
(Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Ezekiel 36:25 AV)
+
B) "WITH" The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, 16:17-18; Luke 24:49; Joel 2:28;
Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16 AV)
Prophecy / Covenants / Law

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!" (BBS)

Mystery / GRACE!:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to { water } baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Does not God Specifically Teach:

Today: Only One Baptism = "BY" The One Spirit = God's Operation,
Spiritually "Identifying" members In ( The One Body Of ) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27;
Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 AV)

Timing
Of This One and Only One Spiritual Baptism, Today, Under Grace?:

"That we should be to The Praise Of His Glory, who first trusted In Christ. ​
In Whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard The Word Of Truth, The Gospel ​
of your Salvation: In Whom also after that ye believed, ye Were Sealed With ​
That Holy Spirit Of Promise, Which Is The Earnest Of our inheritance Until The ​
Redemption Of The Purchased Possession, Unto The Praise Of His Glory."​

Amen.

God Excludes water baptism, Today, Under Grace, Correct?

-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture


Amen.
 

Titus

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In Mark 16:15-16, belief and baptized are inextricably linked together by the conjunction and. Both are required not one or the other, but both.
Some unknowingly fail to see the distinction between someone having trust in their own works to be saved rather than believing in, trusting in Jesus' promises to be saved.

Biblically there is an important distinction.

If one says, Jesus Christ is the source and basis of my salvation and I trust His promise that baptism is part of the obedient response through which I receive salvation...
That does not mean they are trusting in baptism instead of Christ.

It's not a either or, proof of what one anchors their faith upon.

If someone says, the water itself saves me independently of Christ, His death and His ressurection that would make baptism their saving power seperate from Christ. Their trust is in their works not Christ.

Several passages connect baptism directly with what Christ accomplishes not what we accomplish seperate from Christ.

Mark 16:16,
- he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...
Acts 22:16,
- arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord,

Notice that baptism is not presented as an alternative to calling on Christ.
It is commanded while calling on Christ.

Romans 6:3-4 connects baptism with Christs death, burial and ressurection.
Paul joins the gospel, 1Corinthians 15:1-4 with baptism, Romans 6:3-4.
And Colossians 2:12.
Paul teaches that baptism is Gods work not ours and is recieved through faith,
- buried with Him in baptism wherein also ye are risen with Him through faith of the work/operation of God

So from new testament teaching one can consistently say:
" I trust completely in Christ for salvation and because I trust Christ, I obey His command concerning baptism."

Some believe there are only two choices.
Do you trust in Christ or baptism as though the two necessarily compete.

Unfortunately those who have been taught to think this way don't understand that baptism is to be understood as an act of obedience to Christs saving promise and not as an independent saving power apart from Christ.
 

mailmandan

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.Where is "baptism" in that damnation finale? The emphasis is on belief.
Amen! It's the lack of belief which causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism. (Mark 16:16(b). Also, where is "baptism" in (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26?) The emphasis is on belief.
Acts 22:15-16:
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

It was added to his circumcision as a seal of the righteousness which is by faith. Be baptized, and rest not in the sign, but make sure of the thing signified, the putting away of the filth of sin.

Paul was commissioned to go and preach the gospel to the Gentiles (as per my previous post).
In Acts 22:16, the literal washing away of sins happened as he called on the name of the Lord and not by the baptism itself. The water is symbolic; the appeal to Christ’s name is the saving act. Romans 10:13 - For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The remission of sins has three applications: 1. Literally, by the blood of Christ - Matthew 26:28 2. Experientially, by faith in Christ - Acts 26:18 3. Figuratively, by water baptism - Acts 22:16

*Here is an excellent article on Acts 22:16 - WHAT IS TRUTH: Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

False religion turns signs and symbols of salvation into the substance and the source. ⚠️
 

Titus

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While you are doing that it would be good if you can find where Paul dictates that water baptism is a requirement for you and I to enter Heaven, as yet I have found nothing, maybe you can ?
Sure.
I've already shown in my posts here how Paul ties together belief in the gospel and baptism.
Paul speaks of the gospel as the death, burial and ressurection of Christ.
Paul speaks how we reenact the gospel by being baptized into Christ.

Individuals who submit to gospel baptism are putting to death their old sinful self. Being buried. Then being raised from death, born again a new creation in Christ Jesus.

All these verses are Paul's teaching:
Since there is only one gospel, Ephesians 4:5.
Everything Paul did to get saved is the same for us to be saved.

Paul said himself his baptism washed away his sins,
Therefore the same takes place for every individual who believes and obeys the gospel just as Paul did.

Acts 22:16,
- and now why tarriest thou, arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord

This is Paul's explanation of how Jesus instructed him to obey the gospel for his salvation.
The requirements are no different for everyone who has lived since the 1st century till Christ returns.

Paul preaches the gospel,
1Corinthians 15:1-4,
- Christ died for our sins - verse 3
- He was buried- verse 4
- He rose from the dead the third day - verse 4

Paul teaches in Romans chapter 6 verses 1-17 the connection of our baptism to Christs death, burial and ressurection.
Romans 6:17 ; 1-7,
- but God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have  obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine(Jesus' gospel baptism) which has delivered you(freed you from sin)

Verses 1-7,
V •3,
- know ye not(don't you know?) that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death
- therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life
- for if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His ressurection
- knowing this that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that hencehforth we should not serve sin
- for he that is dead(buried in the watery grave of baptism) is  freed from sin(sins washed away)

Verse 7 Paul says,
- for he that is dead is  freed from sin

The Greek word that is translated in English to freed is dikaioõ.
Paul guided by the Holy Spirit used this word. It means,
- to justify
- to declare righteous
- to acquit
- to be considered/set right in relation to a charge

- for he that is dead(buried in baptism) is declared righteous/justified from sin.

No doubt Paul taught when one reenacts the gospel by being baptized into Christ. In baptism according to Paul is when one is justified by God freed from their past sins!!!

This is why Paul also taught in baptism, God does the work of giving us new life, being born again.
Baptism is Gods work not ours. God saves us we do not cleanse ourselves by some "holy water".

Paul again said,
Colossians 2:12-13,
- buried with Christ in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the work of God, who hath raised Him from the dead
- and you being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened together with Him having forgiven you all tresspasses(sins)

Not once will you ever read in any verse teach that baptism is a outward sign or symbol to show others that you have been already forgiven of your sins.

All the scriptures on baptism teach that when one is baptized that is where God works to wash away, justify, raised to newness of life, born again, forgiven of all sins.

When someone tells me that baptism is what those who God has already saved do as an outward sign of their previous salvation.
I ask, where does the Bible speak that way about baptism?
I've yet to hear anyone quote a Bible verse that teaches this doctrine!!

Peter said to the Jews that they must repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of their sins.
Peter later taught baptism now saves us.
No apostle ever taught the saved were saved before being baptized into Christ.

Acts 2:38 ; 1Peter 3:20-21,
- then Peter said unto them, repent and be baptized every one of you(direct commands) in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit
- the like figure whereunto even baptism  doth also now save us(it is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh(baptism is not for physical cleansing) but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the ressurection of Jesus Christ

I just believe what the Bible says.
 
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sondring7

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Sure.
I've already shown in my posts here how Paul ties together belief in the gospel and baptism.
Paul speaks of the gospel as the death, burial and ressurection of Christ.
Paul speaks how we reenact the gospel by being baptized into Christ.

Individuals who submit to gospel baptism are putting to death their old sinful self. Being buried. Then being raised from death, born again a new creation in Christ Jesus.

All these verses are Paul's teaching:
Since there is only one gospel, Ephesians 4:5.
Everything Paul did to get saved is the same for us to be saved.

Paul said himself his baptism washed away his sins,
Therefore the same takes place for every individual who believes and obeys the gospel just as Paul did.

Acts 22:16,
- and now why tarriest thou, arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling on the name of the Lord

This is Paul's explanation of how Jesus instructed him to obey the gospel for his salvation.
The requirements are no different for everyone who has lived since the 1st century till Christ returns.

Paul preaches the gospel,
1Corinthians 15:1-4,
- Christ died for our sins - verse 3
- He was buried- verse 4
- He rose from the dead the third day - verse 4

Paul teaches in Romans chapter 6 verses 1-17 the connection of our baptism to Christs death, burial and ressurection.
Romans 6:17 ; 1-7,
- but God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have  obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine(Jesus' gospel baptism) which has delivered you(freed you from sin)

Verses 1-7,
V •3,
- know ye not(don't you know?) that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death
- therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life
- for if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His ressurection
- knowing this that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that hencehforth we should not serve sin
- for he that is dead(buried in the watery grave of baptism) is  freed from sin(sins washed away)

Verse 7 Paul says,
- for he that is dead is  freed from sin

The Greek word that is translated in English to freed is dikaioõ.
Paul guided by the Holy Spirit used this word. It means,
- to justify
- to declare righteous
- to acquit
- to be considered/set right in relation to a charge

- for he that is dead(buried in baptism) is declared righteous/justified from sin.

No doubt Paul taught when one reenacts the gospel by being baptized into Christ. In baptism according to Paul is when one is justified by God freed from their past sins!!!

This is why Paul also taught in baptism, God does the work of giving us new life, being born again.
Baptism is Gods work not ours. God saves us we do not cleanse ourselves by some "holy water".

Paul again said,
Colossians 2:12-13,
- buried with Christ in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the work of God, who hath raised Him from the dead
- and you being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He quickened together with Him having forgiven you all tresspasses(sins)

Not once will you ever read in any verse teach that baptism is a outward sign or symbol to show others that you have been already forgiven of your sins.

All the scriptures on baptism teach that when one is baptized that is where God works to wash away, justify, raised to newness of life, born again, forgiven of all sins.

When someone tells me that baptism is what those who God has already saved do as an outward sign of their previous salvation.
I ask, where does the Bible speak that way about baptism?
I've yet to hear anyone quote a Bible verse that teaches this doctrine!!

Peter said to the Jews that they must repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of their sins.
Peter later taught baptism now saves us.
No apostle ever taught the saved were saved before being baptized into Christ.

Acts 2:38 ; 1Peter 3:20-21,
- then Peter said unto them, repent and be baptized every one of you(direct commands) in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit
- the like figure whereunto even baptism  doth also now save us(it is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh(baptism is not for physical cleansing) but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the ressurection of Jesus Christ

I just believe what the Bible says.
+++I just believe what the Bible says.
Gal 2.7-9, Acts 9.15, Rom 11.13, Rom 15.16
Who does the Bible say is Apostle to you, Peter or Paul ?
 

Titus

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+++I just believe what the Bible says.
Gal 2.7-9, Acts 9.15, Rom 11.13, Rom 15.16
Who does the Bible say is Apostle to you, Peter or Paul ?
Well, I wish you would have answered my question,
First, I need to know if you believe only Paul is our apostle today?
I believe all the apostles taught the same gospel for all time.
So what Peter taught is applicable for us today as is Paul's teaching
I feel like you aren't reading my response to you or maybe only some of my response?

Acts 2:42,
- and they continued steadfastly in the apostles  doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and in prayers

2Thessalonians 2:15,
- therefore brethren be steadfast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or  our epistle

2John 1:9-11

All the apostles taught the same doctrine(gospel).
All are our teachers today.
 

sondring7

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Well, I wish you would have answered my question,

I feel like you aren't reading my response to you or maybe only some of my response?

Acts 2:42,
- and they continued steadfastly in the apostles  doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread and in prayers

2Thessalonians 2:15,
- therefore brethren be steadfast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or  our epistle

2John 1:9-11

All the apostles taught the same doctrine(gospel).
All are our teachers today.
I'm trying to politely keep things simple, step by step :)

Acts 2:44-45
44And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

ALL that believed sold ALL that they had etc

Have you done that ?
 
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Titus

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I'm trying to politely keep things simple, step by step :)

Acts 2:44-45
44And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

ALL that believed sold ALL that they had etc

Have you done that ?
If you want to have a civil discussion or debate with me, I'd love to search the Scriptures with you to see if these things are so.

 if, you are willing to answer my questions as I've answered yours.
I will not engage in a monologue only dialog.

I want to be fair and respectful to you.
I hope you will respect my desires also.

Please answer my question.
If you don't want to for any reason. Please, just let me know why and I might not hold you to it.
First, I need to know if you believe only Paul is our apostle today?
Let's answer questions in the order of who asked their question first, ok?
 

sondring7

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If you want to have a civil discussion or debate with me, I'd love to search the Scriptures with you to see if these things are so.

 if, you are willing to answer my questions as I've answered yours.
I will not engage in a monologue only dialog.

I want to be fair and respectful to you.
I hope you will respect my desires also.

Please answer my question.
If you don't want to for any reason. Please, just let me know why and I might not hold you to it.

Let's answer questions in the order of who asked their question first, ok?
++++First, I need to know if you believe only Paul is our apostle today?
Acts 9.15 Gal 2.7-9 Rom 11.13 Rom 15.16 1 Tim 2.7 Eph 3.8 is the answer :)
 

Titus

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I'm trying to politely keep things simple, step by step :)

Acts 2:44-45
44And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

ALL that believed sold ALL that they had etc

Have you done that ?
I'll go ahead and answer another question of yours.
Jesus told the young rich ruler that he had to give away all of his assets/money because Jesus can see a man's true heart. The rich young ruler loved his wealth more than Jesus.
Matthew 19:21,
- Jesus said unto him, if thou wilt be perfect go and sell that thou hast and give it to the poor and thou shalt have treasure in heaven and come follow Me

In Acts 2:44-45 they were already saved. They had already obeyed the gospel of Christ.

The good works they did of giving all they had was never commanded by God. God never commanded them to give all they had.
So no I'm not required to give all my physical blessings away. Neither were they.

Christians are commanded to help the needy,
James 1:27.
Yes I help those in need as God has blessed me with what I'm able to give.
 

sondring7

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I'll go ahead and answer another question of yours.
Jesus told the young rich ruler that he had to give away all of his assets/money because Jesus can see a man's true heart. The rich young ruler loved his wealth more than Jesus.
Matthew 19:21,
- Jesus said unto him, if thou wilt be perfect go and sell that thou hast and give it to the poor and thou shalt have treasure on heaven and come follow Me

In Acts 2:44-45 they were already saved. They had already obeyed the gospel of Christ.

The good works they did of giving all they had was never commanded by God. God never commanded them to give all they had.
So no I'm not required to give all my physical blessings away. Neither were they.

Christians are commanded to help the needy,
James 1:27.
Yes I help those in need as God has blessed me with what I'm able to give.
Luke 18.18. Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke 18...Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor,
Have you SOLD ALL YOU HAVE so you can inherit eternal life ?
 

Titus

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Luke 18.18. Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke 18...Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor,
Have you SOLD ALL YOU HAVE so you can inherit eternal life ?
Jesus knew the rich young rulers heart.
That man had no hope of eternal life because he loved money more than God. God does not require this of everyone because not everyone is guilty of this sin. I love God more than everything else. God does not require this of me. If I loved something more than God then I also could not be saved.
This is why the rich young ruler went away sorrowful.
 

sondring7

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Jesus knew the rich young rulers heart.
That man had no hope of eternal life because he loved manna more than God. God does not require this of everyone because not everyone is guilty of this sin. I love God more than everything else. God does not require this of me. If I loved something more than God then I also could not be saved.
This is why the rich young ruler went away sorrowful.
I answered your Paul question by letting the verses answer YES for me.

Your turn, Acts 2.44-45, Luke 18.22
Have you sold EVERYTHING as in the above verses
YES or NO ? :)
 

Titus

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I answered your Paul question by letting the verses answer YES for me.

Your turn, Acts 2.44-45, Luke 18.22
Have you sold EVERYTHING as in the above verses
YES or NO ? :)
No, those verses do not affirm your interpretation.
I've already explained why.
I feel like you aren't listening to my responses.
 

sondring7

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No, those verses do not affirm your interpretation.
I've already explained why.
I feel like you aren't listening to my responses.
The Bible says :-
Acts 2:44-45 ALL believers sold EVERYTHING
Luke 18.18-22 Sell ALL was part of the to >>DO<< requirement to inherit eternal life

Next topic, have you received the HS ?
If so, what verses do you rely on to know that has happened ?
 
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