Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[ProDeo]

I'm a logical dispassionate person by nature.

You said to amigo --> I do weep for you

 

[Episkopos]

You said to amigo --> I do weep for you

Yes. I HATE the idea of believers being lost to something they have no idea they are about to face. It is a fearful thing to face the living God as a perpetrator of iniquity.

 

[shepherdsword]

If we will be judged by our works....
then works are the result of our salvation.

I hope we agree that belief in God must come first.

FAITH in God yes

Could you explain the above better?
You speak of faith and works.

James teaches that faith without works is dead. Hence the only real validation for the authenticity of our faith is works. Faith as source, works as result.

At the time that the NT was written the Greek language was chosen.
In the Greek language there are two words that cannot be separated...but not the ones you have chosen.

The two words are BELIEVE and OBEDIENCE.

Faith is believing and obedience is working. 6 one way, half a dozen the other.

They are one thought and the mind of those writing the NT would not separate the two.
It is not that believing causes obedience...
believing IS obedience.
Not like this: believe = obey
but like this: believe obey

If belief is all we need then the devils are saved too:
Jas 2:19-20
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

If we believe we will obey.
If we obey we believe...it is one thought, not two combined.

Here is an example:
Hebrews 3:18-19
18And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient?
19So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.


Thought you might be interested re your post.

What do you think about James 2:19-20?

Holy just means to be set aside for service to God.
Righteous just means to be right with God.

God is Holy, does this mean He is set aside for service for himself? I suspect the meaning is much more than that.
God is righteous...does this mean He is right with Himself? We need to dig a little deeper to get the complete meaning.

 

[marks]

God is Holy, does this mean He is set aside for service for himself? I suspect the meaning is much more than that.
God is righteous...does this mean He is right with Himself? We need to dig a little deeper to get the complete meaning.

God is ALWAYS true to Himself. This is the beauty of His holiness. Holiness is set apart for God. God remains always and completely set apart for Himself, always true to Who He Is.

For us to be holy, this means God has set us apart for Himself.

God is righteous, meaning, everything He does and is is right.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Ephesians 4:24-25 KJV
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Righteous is doing what is right, speaking truth. Holiness is being what God intends for us, living as members one of another.

Walking in holiness - set apart as His family - leads us to righteousness - being honest with each other.

Much love!

 

[ProDeo]

Yes. I HATE the idea of believers being lost to something they have no idea they are about to face. It is a fearful thing to face the living God as a perpetrator of iniquity.

Post #641 was for insiders, you don't understand, not able, sadly.

Gen 6:6 And the LORD regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.

Luke 19:41 And when he drew near and saw the city, he [Jesus] wept over it,

Matt 9:36 When he [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd.

Jonah 3:10 When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We are equipped with emotions because He has emotions, emotions are a part of being created in His image.

 

[Episkopos]

Post #641 was for insiders, you don't understand, not able, sadly.

Gen 6:6 And the LORD regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.

Luke 19:41 And when he drew near and saw the city, he [Jesus] wept over it,

Matt 9:36 When he [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd.

Jonah 3:10 When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil way, God relented of the disaster that he had said he would do to them, and he did not do it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We are equipped with emotions because He has emotions, emotions are a part of being created in His image.

We are not to judge by emotions. That's what caused men to fall. They disobeyed because it didn't seem right to not partake of the forbidden fruit.

 

[GodsGrace]

FAITH in God yes

James teaches that faith without works is dead. Hence the only real validation for the authenticity of our faith is works. Faith as source, works as result.

Faith is believing and obedience is working. 6 one way, half a dozen the other.

If belief is all we need then the devils are saved too:
Jas 2:19-20
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Did I state that faith is all we need?

James 2:19-20
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.

That's what it means.
It means what James said.

God is Holy, does this mean He is set aside for service for himself? I suspect the meaning is much more than that.
God is righteous...does this mean He is right with Himself? We need to dig a little deeper to get the complete meaning.

Perhaps you would like to explain better what holy means and what righteous means?
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

I hope we agree that belief in God must come first.
IT must . And WHO did GOD testify on my dear friend .
THE HOLY SON .
Who also told the unbelieving jews , YE have NOT the love of GOD in you .
For HE whom GOD did send you believe him not .
THERE IS NO SUCH THING as having FAITH IN GOD when one does not BELIEVE GOD .
And had one believed GOD , YOU BEDDA Believe they had BELIEVED JESUS .
You wanna know what i see in this ever g rowing inclusive generation .
THEY have a problem with the WORD BELIEVE , when words follow that .
AS IN BELIEVE IN JESUS . oh but they do . EPI is not the first
to call me religious extremists , OR words to that effect
for even reminding us christians that the other religoins are false . AND they must repent and believe on JESUS .
ITS G ROWING my friend. The gospel , the one true gospel was changed . changed to accept A LIE .
And that just made it A FALSE GOSPEL from the pits of the da rkness .
In fact t hey now chant BELIEVE IN LOVE , and yet their love has made the path to GOD very darn broad.
Used to be the churches preached BELIEVE YE ON JESUS .
Now they preach inclusivism . maybe do some good works , and imply it dont ma tter
what religoin one followed . Someone been real busy lying to this generation .
And worse a wh ole lot of someones w ho are in christendom are buying it .
NOT ME . I will DIE first . THERE WILL bE NO other name i preach bUT CHRIST JESUS
with the REMINDER YE MUST BELEIVE and to observe all things HE did teach .
The foundation is NOT JESUS CHRIST , the apostles and then all the false religoins .
SORRY but that is a false FOUNDATION .
THE FOUNDATION IS JESUS ONLY and the twelve are the original ones first in that foundation .
And the gospel must be preached and by faith IN JESUS is how each stone is added into the temple .
That temple WILL NOT have muslims , buddisets , atheists or any other false religoin in it .
NO WHITE GARMENTS , NO ACCESS IN . And there is only ONE way to have such white garments .
FAITH IN THE HOLY SON , THE HOLY CHRIST OF GOD , CHRIST JESUS . all else be in darkness
and the only way out of the darkness
FAITH IN JESUS . as paul told king aggripa what JESUS himself had told paul in acts chapter twenty and six .
THERE WILL BE NO other name i offer up . FOR THERE IS NO OTHER NAME under heaven
given whereby one may be saved .
And what must i do sirs to be saved . BELIEVE ,
oh dear there is that believe word again , BELEIVE YE IN JESUS THE CHRIST .

I think we agree on everything.

 

[ProDeo]

We are not to judge by emotions. That's what caused men to fall. They disobeyed because it didn't seem right to not partake of the forbidden fruit.

They rebelled, they insisted like God to know the difference between good and evil. And the Lord gave them what they desired, hence we are here. And so we learn and regret.

Emotions had nothing to do with the rebellion.

By emotions you can feel your happiness, by emotions you can feel your pain. By emotions you can share happiness with each other, by emotions you can feel the pain of others.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think we agree on everything.

Then know and understand that a false gospel will not be allowed on my watch .
As i am sure you would agree with that .

 

[amigo de christo]

I think we agree on everything.

to the trenches the hour is late .

 

[Armour of God]

Is this a good thing?
If there can be different interpretations of scripture...

I don't know if it's a good or bad. It just is.
It's in man's nature to challenge ideas of others

does this mean there can be different truths?

There can only be one truth.
That's what all the Christian denominations and people debate about, all the biblical details

 

[MostlyConfused]

They call it suicidal empathy....it's just evil with an emotional twist.

I call it being turned into a missile for satan. In the common vernacular it’s called being turned into a “flying monkey“ for satan. He seems to me to be able to do all his damage of stealing, killing and destroying only THROUGH our fears, anxieties and emotions. He’s very adept at causing such turmoil in us but once you catch on you see he’s not as varied as you would think but uses the same tactics over and over again. He was the very first covert narcissist you know!
But yes, he does his evil THROUGH men by twisting and cranking up our emotions.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't know if it's a good or bad. It just is.
It's in man's nature to challenge ideas of others

You should know whether it's good or bad Armour.
The NT, including Jesus and Paul, stated that we should be one.
Philippians 2:2
2Complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.


Jesus said:
John 17:20
20“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one,

There can only be one truth.
That's what all the Christian denominations and people debate about, all the biblical details

If each denomination, including the non-denominational churches, use the same bible and yet teach different doctrine...it means that there is more than one truth.

I wonder what you would call a "detail".

Is obedience a detail?
Is OSAS a detail?

Either one could cause a person to be expelled from the Kingdom of Heaven.
There's a member on this forum right now advising me that I could sin and still be saved.
Is THIS a detail?

 

[MostlyConfused]

Perhaps you would like to explain better what holy means and what righteous means?

Holy means without any sin whatsoever, without a single spot or wrinkle, not even a speck.

Righteous means, at its core, to seek to never do any harm to any person. It’s a heart that seeks to do no harm to another in any way.

 

[GodsGrace]

Holy means without any sin whatsoever, without a single spot or wrinkle, not even a speck.

That is not what holy means.

1 Peter 1:16
16Since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

Do you think we can be holy like God is holy?

We are told to be holy.
Are we supposed to be sinless?
Is this possible?

 

[MostlyConfused]

That is not what holy means.

1 Peter 1:16
16Since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

Do you think we can be holy like God is holy?

We are told to be holy.
Are we supposed to be sinless?
Is this possible?

It is possible with God, all things are possible with God. It is impossible with men.
It’s not that we can be holy of ourselves, of course not, there is only one who is holy.
The veil was torn that led into the holiest place. That speaks of the possibility of being swept into Gods’ very own holiness. But men do not believe it. They think it is impossible for God because it is impossible for men.

If it is true that there is only One who is holy, don’t you think the definition of holy is that One? It’s going a very bad direction to bring the definition of holy to the degraded place of what is possible for men.

 

[ProDeo]

I rest my case. You can only see the very few posts I respond to in all his attacks on me. A true Christian person calls out sin. Light exposes darkness. And the religious darkness is the worst kind. Do you only see the devil when he has a pitchfork? Otherwise he smothers people with warm fuzzy feelings...while he destroys the kingdom of God. You can't see that. You are WAYYYYYY too emotional to see any truth. You are like the rioters who loot and destroy.....and then the softies like yourself...who call out the riot police for trying to maintain order as being cruel. The world is in a mess because Christians are acting like woke extremists. So you are an agent of chaos.

Lean not on your own understanding.

Stop attacking the truth.

So this is the result of 2½ years failed holiness and since then unable to get back there.

And by your own words had to change, into this?

 

[ProDeo]

Paul said I have become all things to all men so that I may win some. I call out people who repeat the same slogans to all men so that men might blaspheme God...but you have an emotional attachment to the slogans....right? So who cares if the atheist thinks Christians are idiots, right? We can chalk it up to persecution. Such hypocrisy.

LOL

You invented a new toy to beat, emotions are bad. How can you know that if you don't have them yourself ?