Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[1stCenturyLady]

Do you find there is a lot of false teaching about what counts as a sin? @Episkopos
I ask your thoughts as well.

I believe there are a lot of made up sins that aren't biblical. This adds to the belief that stopping sin is impossible.

The heresy that started 500 years ago in the Reformation was the truth that after we are initially cleansed of mortal sins unto death from our nature and we cannot commit those major sins anymore, making us righteous, and the only type of sin that from then on are minor sins not unto death committed unintentionally, that are continuously cleansed as seen in 1 John 1:7; they made all sin alike "sin is sin" so that committing adultery and murder were also cleansed continuously as seen by the common phrase "past, present and future sins"! You won't find that phrase anywhere in Scripture. It is a doctrine of demons.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@JimKnox

Hi. So from your laughing emoji does that mean you are part of the reformed doctrine of John Calvin?

 

[MostlyConfused]

and @MostlyConfused

Jesus does the correct order as we submit ourselves to Him. First He is the Author of our first faith from Romans 1:16-17 righteousness revealed from faith to faith." Unlike the first covenant, the ministry of death, the new covenant is the POWER OF GOD, the ministry of the Spirit. It is not our doing, it is all Him. When I was born again I literally felt a heaviness lift out of my body, and I felt light as a feather. I'm sure I've told you that before. The amazing thing was I had been a slave to adultery, but after that desire left my body, I was free from sin. I was actually righteous. Jesus made me righteous. It wasn't the heresy of Christ's righteousness covering over my sin as is taught in many churches to their shame. They don't understand that when all evil desire is taken away you naturally want to do good. There is no more struggle to be good, you just are. This was after 30 years of going to a legalistic denomination, unsaved. I remember looking around the SDA church at all the people thinking, if they only knew that I was going to the movies with my family that night, as we did every Saturday night. I was a very bad Seventh-day Adventist always feeling ashamed. But that was how I was raised. And my mother was even the church treasurer.

Then as the Finisher of our faith, comes the long process of one by one maturing the fruit of the Spirit and getting closer and closer to perfection where, at the end, we "never stumble." That is found in verse 10 of 2 Peter 1:5-11. Only Jesus knows when He has finished the work He started in us, but He promised He will. Philippians 1:6.

I felt that light as a feather thing. I actually had to look down at my feet as I was walking up the stairs because I felt like my feet weren’t touching the stair treads. Every single ache and chronic pain was suddenly just gone. When I got to the top of the stairs I went to a chair and sat down and I can’t quite explain what happened next and I don’t even know how much time passed that I remained in the chair. I had to keep opening my eyes because I felt like I was floating. A person I trust said that was a visitation and I have to agree.

 

[JimKnox]

@JimKnox

Hi. So from your laughing emoji does that mean you are part of the reformed doctrine of John Calvin?

Nope.
Guess again.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

So you are being saved by the Lord in your unrighteousness?

No. I am saved by the Lord in spite of my unrighteousness.

I still sin on occasion but it is removed by his forgiveness and does not remain on my account, so I appear righteous in his sight. It is impossible for me to be saved by the Lord in my righteousness. I ruined that way to be saved long ago in my youth. The law reveals me to be unrighteous, not righteous as the Pharisee blindly thought the law did.

In your scheme the more unrighteousness you perform the more credit God gets. See where that gets you....

No, lol.
The person who continues in their sinning as a deliberate lifestyle choice and thinks the forgiveness of God covers that sin is showing themselves to not be born again.

1 John 3:6
6every one who is remaining in him doth not sin; every one who is sinning, hath not seen him, nor known him.

Note the word 'sinning' emboldened above. It is in the Present tense Participle mood. That mood is represented by an 'ing' ending. It addresses the matter of a present and continual, habitual sinning. That's why sin is translated 'practices sin' in the passage. That person shows by their ongoing, habitual, unrepentant sinning that they are not born again and have not seen or known God. It does not mean the person who commits one sin is not born again and has not seen or know him as 1stCenturyLady misunderstands the passage to mean.


But anyway, I think you were making a loose reference to this passage in Romans.

Romans 5:20
20The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more

That doesn't mean you can sin all the more and the grace of God increases all the more as you are suggesting it means. It means as awareness of sin increased with the giving of the law (see Romans 7:7) God's grace increased all the more in Christ. Paul had this to say to those who, like you, claim it means you can sin all you want and God's grace increases to cover it.

Romans 3:8
8Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

 

[MostlyConfused]

brief and vague form,

The man is not brief. He has spoken extensively on these things, in here, in his podcasts and in his book. He is anything BUT vague. His precision marvels me almost daily. It’s almost like he doesn’t waste even a single word when he explains and teaches. It’s a sight to see. I’ve had some discussions with AI when I was looking For information and I Would have to say something like…is that ALL the info you can find regarding this across the entire internet because that can’t be right because of this verse and that verse. And then, AI would start questioning ME because, and I quote here, “that explains this in a MUCH more logical way, without skipping over parts that don’t quite fit, and your explanation is seamless and breathtaking in its depth of understanding.“
So lol, even AI is impressed with the man!

 

[Episkopos]

No. I am saved by the Lord in spite of my unrighteousness.

I still sin on occasion but it is removed by his forgiveness and does not remain on my account, so I appear righteous in his sight.

You should say..."In my opinion" because that's all you have.

It is impossible for me to be saved by the Lord in my righteousness.

The whole purpose of grace is to help us to be obedient. Not to help us to stay sinful.

I ruined that way to be saved long ago in my youth. The law reveals me to be unrighteous, not righteous as the Pharisee blindly thought the law did.

But the Publican never saw himself as forgiven or righteous. You are inventing that. Only the Pharisee considered himself to be righteous. Modern Pharisees consider themselves to be righteous based on their reading the bible and beliefs or religious opinions.

 

[Lizbeth]

The man is not brief. He has spoken extensively on these things, in here, in his podcasts and in his book. He is anything BUT vague. His precision marvels me almost daily. It’s almost like he doesn’t waste even a single word when he explains and teaches. It’s a sight to see. I’ve had some discussions with AI when I was looking For information and I Would have to say something like…is that ALL the info you can find regarding this across the entire internet because that can’t be right because of this verse and that verse. And then, AI would start questioning ME because, and I quote here, “that explains this in a MUCH more logical way, without skipping over parts that don’t quite fit, and your explanation is seamless and breathtaking in its depth of understanding.“
So lol, even AI is impressed with the man!

Do you believe that a machine is able to perceive things that need to be spiritually discerned? And that "logic" is the way to understand deep things of God?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I felt that light as a feather thing. I actually had to look down at my feet as I was walking up the stairs because I felt like my feet weren’t touching the stair treads. Every single ache and chronic pain was suddenly just gone. When I got to the top of the stairs I went to a chair and sat down and I can’t quite explain what happened next and I don’t even know how much time passed that I remained in the chair. I had to keep opening my eyes because I felt like I was floating. A person I trust said that was a visitation and I have to agree.

At the time were you committing a bad sin you couldn't turn away from on your own? And after that light feeling was the desire completely gone and you were free? That freedom from sin is a sign you've been born again of the Spirit. That is why 1 John 3:9 says the born again cannot commit sin.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Nope.
Guess again.

Lutheran?

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

The whole purpose of grace is to help us to be obedient. Not to help us to stay sinful.

You have to stop excusing your sin by saying God is helping you to not be sinful, but then turn right around and condemn others for their sin because you are sure they think God is helping them to stay sinful.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

But the Publican never saw himself as forgiven or righteous. You are inventing that.

Not until he was forgiven and righteous.
The Publican confessed that he was sinful and sought God's mercy and "went home justified" (Luke 18:13-14). He was indeed forgiven and righteous. I'm not inventing that.

Only the Pharisee considered himself to be righteous.

So which are you then, a Publican or a Pharisee?

Modern Pharisees consider themselves to be righteous based on their reading the bible and beliefs or religious opinions.

You are no different from the Pharisee. You trust in your own righteousness - the righteousness of your obedience to God's commands, and you think you are better than other men, and you view them with contempt.

Luke 18:9-10
9To some who trusted in their own righteousness and viewed others with contempt, He also told this parable: 10“Two men went up to the temple to pray. One was a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed,a ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—swindlers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and pay tithes of all that I acquire.’

I'm sure you don't think you are like the Pharisee, so can you explain why you don't think you are like the Pharisee? I mean, surely you don't think you are like the publican in the story. He sought God's mercy and was justified (declared righteous). You reject that way to be righteous.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

they made all sin alike "sin is sin" so that committing adultery and murder were also cleansed continuously as seen by the common phrase "past, present and future sins"! You won't find that phrase anywhere in Scripture. It is a doctrine of demons.

Hebrews 10:14
14For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The born again believer has been made forever perfect, despite the fact that he is not perfect in behavior and is in the process of being made holy in behavior. That is true because the born again believer's sin is continually forgiven by the sacrifice of Jesus they believe and trust in and is never legally held against them. Past sin is forgiven, present sin is forgiven, and if/when future sin becomes today's present sin, it is forgiven.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

When I was born again I literally felt a heaviness lift out of my body, and I felt light as a feather. I'm sure I've told you that before. The amazing thing was I had been a slave to adultery, but after that desire left my body, I was free from sin. I was actually righteous. Jesus made me righteous. It wasn't the heresy of Christ's righteousness covering over my sin as is taught in many churches to their shame.

The righteousness of your present obedience does not cover the unrighteousness of your past sin. So who's righteousness does?

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

I believe there are a lot of made up sins that aren't biblical.

If someone considers something to be sin then for them it really is sin.

Romans 14:14
14...if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.

The real danger is doing something that you think is not sin but in actuality is sin.

Romans 14:22
22Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves.

The condemnation is on the one who indulges improperly, not on the one who restrains themselves unnecessarily.

 

[Episkopos]

Not until he was forgiven and righteous.
The Publican confessed that he was sinful and sought God's mercy and "went home justified" (Luke 18:13-14). He was indeed forgiven and righteous. I'm not inventing that.

Maybe I have to dumb down my words for you to hear because you are not very astute when it comes to reading comprehension (your self-interest is way too much at play...making you are a very poor judge).
What the bible says, and I said, is that the Publican didn't THINK .....(listen to this word "think")...he didn't THINK he was forgiven or justified. He was not like an evangelical so that he forgave himself and justified himself. That is your invention that you think gives you the right to forgive yourself and justify yourself. What tells you that God told him he was forgiven and justified??? it's definitely not in the text. ......reading the bible does not give you the right to do that. You have skipped over the repentance part...and continue to do so. So you are still the Pharisee in the parable.

So which are you then, a Publican or a Pharisee?


You are no different from the Pharisee. You trust in your own righteousness - the righteousness of your obedience to God's commands, and you think you are better than other men, and you view them with contempt.

You are making obedience to be wrong...which shows that your doctrine is not biblical but a false religious bent....based on self-interest.

You trust in your own judgment where God has said NOTHING. It's all assuming and presuming.

When did God appear to you to tell you that you were forgiven and justified???? Not from reading the bible. It is based on a religious ideology you have applied to yourself. Do you have a testimony or a theory?

I'm sure you don't think you are like the Pharisee, so can you explain why you don't think you are like the Pharisee? I mean, surely you don't think you are like the publican in the story. He sought God's mercy and was justified (declared righteous). You reject that way to be righteous.

I reject the way of religious Pharisees who justify themselves based on reading the bible and deciding for themselves that they are forgiven and justified. The Publican never did that. The Pharisee did.

 

[Episkopos]

You have to stop excusing your sin by saying God is helping you to not be sinful, but then turn right around and condemn others for their sin because you are sure they think God is helping them to stay sinful.

I am condemning your hypocrisy.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Do you believe that a machine is able to perceive things that need to be spiritually discerned? And that "logic" is the way to understand deep things of God?

No. But I do see that the logic AI is trained on is more logical than the indoctrinated religious.

 

[MostlyConfused]

At the time were you committing a bad sin you couldn't turn away from on your own? And after that light feeling was the desire completely gone and you were free? That freedom from sin is a sign you've been born again of the Spirit. That is why 1 John 3:9 says the born again cannot commit sin.

I was not sinning in the outward grosser ways that men can see but inwardly I was. I don’t exactly separate the two because the outward only occurs because the inward occurs first.
I still do not have freedom from sin. If I did, I wouldn’t sin. I wouldn’t have such agonies as I have if my old man was dead.

 

[MostlyConfused]

The righteousness of our works is not good enough for that to be the righteousness by which a person can enter the kingdom of God. You ruined that way to get in the kingdom of God long ago when you sinned.

Ezekiel 18 covers this extensively.
Also, you have a muddled understanding of God accepting a man versus God being well pleased.