Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[1stCenturyLady]

Do you find there is a lot of false teaching about what counts as a sin? @Episkopos
I ask your thoughts as well.

I believe there are a lot of made up sins that aren't biblical. This adds to the belief that stopping sin is impossible.

The heresy that started 500 years ago in the Reformation was the truth that after we are initially cleansed of mortal sins unto death from our nature and we cannot commit those major sins anymore, making us righteous, and the only type of sin that from then on are minor sins not unto death committed unintentionally, that are continuously cleansed as seen in 1 John 1:7; they made all sin alike "sin is sin" so that committing adultery and murder were also cleansed continuously as seen by the common phrase "past, present and future sins"! You won't find that phrase anywhere in Scripture. It is a doctrine of demons.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@JimKnox

Hi. So from your laughing emoji does that mean you are part of the reformed doctrine of John Calvin?

 

[MostlyConfused]

and @MostlyConfused

Jesus does the correct order as we submit ourselves to Him. First He is the Author of our first faith from Romans 1:16-17 righteousness revealed from faith to faith." Unlike the first covenant, the ministry of death, the new covenant is the POWER OF GOD, the ministry of the Spirit. It is not our doing, it is all Him. When I was born again I literally felt a heaviness lift out of my body, and I felt light as a feather. I'm sure I've told you that before. The amazing thing was I had been a slave to adultery, but after that desire left my body, I was free from sin. I was actually righteous. Jesus made me righteous. It wasn't the heresy of Christ's righteousness covering over my sin as is taught in many churches to their shame. They don't understand that when all evil desire is taken away you naturally want to do good. There is no more struggle to be good, you just are. This was after 30 years of going to a legalistic denomination, unsaved. I remember looking around the SDA church at all the people thinking, if they only knew that I was going to the movies with my family that night, as we did every Saturday night. I was a very bad Seventh-day Adventist always feeling ashamed. But that was how I was raised. And my mother was even the church treasurer.

Then as the Finisher of our faith, comes the long process of one by one maturing the fruit of the Spirit and getting closer and closer to perfection where, at the end, we "never stumble." That is found in verse 10 of 2 Peter 1:5-11. Only Jesus knows when He has finished the work He started in us, but He promised He will. Philippians 1:6.

I felt that light as a feather thing. I actually had to look down at my feet as I was walking up the stairs because I felt like my feet weren’t touching the stair treads. Every single ache and chronic pain was suddenly just gone. When I got to the top of the stairs I went to a chair and sat down and I can’t quite explain what happened next and I don’t even know how much time passed that I remained in the chair. I had to keep opening my eyes because I felt like I was floating. A person I trust said that was a visitation and I have to agree.

 

[JimKnox]

@JimKnox

Hi. So from your laughing emoji does that mean you are part of the reformed doctrine of John Calvin?

Nope.
Guess again.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

So you are being saved by the Lord in your unrighteousness?

No. I am saved by the Lord in spite of my unrighteousness.

I still sin on occasion but it is removed by his forgiveness and does not remain on my account, so I appear righteous in his sight. It is impossible for me to be saved by the Lord in my righteousness. I ruined that way to be saved long ago in my youth. The law reveals me to be unrighteous, not righteous as the Pharisee blindly thought the law did.

In your scheme the more unrighteousness you perform the more credit God gets. See where that gets you....

No, lol.
The person who continues in their sinning as a deliberate lifestyle choice and thinks the forgiveness of God covers that sin is showing themselves to not be born again.

1 John 3:6
6every one who is remaining in him doth not sin; every one who is sinning, hath not seen him, nor known him.

Note the word 'sinning' emboldened above. It is in the Present tense Participle mood. That mood is represented by an 'ing' ending. It addresses the matter of a present and continual, habitual sinning. That's why sin is translated 'practices sin' in the passage. That person shows by their ongoing, habitual, unrepentant sinning that they are not born again and have not seen or known God. It does not mean the person who commits one sin is not born again and has not seen or know him as 1stCenturyLady misunderstands the passage to mean.


But anyway, I think you were making a loose reference to this passage in Romans.

Romans 5:20
20The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more

That doesn't mean you can sin all the more and the grace of God increases all the more as you are suggesting it means. It means as awareness of sin increased with the giving of the law (see Romans 7:7) God's grace increased all the more in Christ. Paul had this to say to those who, like you, claim it means you can sin all you want and God's grace increases to cover it.

Romans 3:8
8Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

 

[MostlyConfused]

brief and vague form,

The man is not brief. He has spoken extensively on these things, in here, in his podcasts and in his book. He is anything BUT vague. His precision marvels me almost daily. It’s almost like he doesn’t waste even a single word when he explains and teaches. It’s a sight to see. I’ve had some discussions with AI when I was looking For information and I Would have to say something like…is that ALL the info you can find regarding this across the entire internet because that can’t be right because of this verse and that verse. And then, AI would start questioning ME because, and I quote here, “that explains this in a MUCH more logical way, without skipping over parts that don’t quite fit, and your explanation is seamless and breathtaking in its depth of understanding.“
So lol, even AI is impressed with the man!

 

[Episkopos]

No. I am saved by the Lord in spite of my unrighteousness.

I still sin on occasion but it is removed by his forgiveness and does not remain on my account, so I appear righteous in his sight.

You should say..."In my opinion" because that's all you have.

It is impossible for me to be saved by the Lord in my righteousness.

The whole purpose of grace is to help us to be obedient. Not to help us to stay sinful.

I ruined that way to be saved long ago in my youth. The law reveals me to be unrighteous, not righteous as the Pharisee blindly thought the law did.

But the Publican never saw himself as forgiven or righteous. You are inventing that. Only the Pharisee considered himself to be righteous. Modern Pharisees consider themselves to be righteous based on their reading the bible and beliefs or religious opinions.

 

[Lizbeth]

The man is not brief. He has spoken extensively on these things, in here, in his podcasts and in his book. He is anything BUT vague. His precision marvels me almost daily. It’s almost like he doesn’t waste even a single word when he explains and teaches. It’s a sight to see. I’ve had some discussions with AI when I was looking For information and I Would have to say something like…is that ALL the info you can find regarding this across the entire internet because that can’t be right because of this verse and that verse. And then, AI would start questioning ME because, and I quote here, “that explains this in a MUCH more logical way, without skipping over parts that don’t quite fit, and your explanation is seamless and breathtaking in its depth of understanding.“
So lol, even AI is impressed with the man!

Do you believe that a machine is able to perceive things that need to be spiritually discerned? And that "logic" is the way to understand deep things of God?