Once saved always saved

[Dryhn]

If believers are already saved, what is the point of placing them in front of the judgement seat of Christ?

Are good believers goto better places of heaven: villas and mansions. Ordinary you and me goto heaven slums?

You guys are making funny, illogical hermeneutics of the Bible.

Funny = catholic teachings
If you want to go down the insult path, I'm your guy :)

Apparently you don't understand what the Judgement Seat of Christ is all about & who it applies to

 

[beechan]

Apparently you don't understand what the Judgement Seat of Christ is all about & who it applies to

Do enlighten me !! I have ears

Don't tell me what you can do, SHOW me what you can do!

 

[Dryhn]

Do enlighten me !! I have ears

Don't tell me what you can do, SHOW me what you can do!

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved
The JSOC is for saved believers, not the lost
Where do you believe Paul teaches that Adam, Moses, Abraham, Lot etc are included in this particular judgement ?

Rom 14:10
1 Cor 3:10-15
2 Cor 5:6-10

 

[beechan]

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved
The JSOC is for saved believers, not the lost
Where do you believe Paul teaches that Adam, Moses, Abraham, Lot etc are included in this particular judgement ?

Rom 14:10
1 Cor 3:10-15
2 Cor 5:6-10

The New Testament itself destroys this idea. In Hebrews 11 and 12, the writer places Old Testament saints and New Covenant believers into the exact same stadium, running the exact same race, looking toward the exact same prize. They are intrinsically linked to our completion, not segregated into a separate division barred off from grace.

 

[Dryhn]

The New Testament itself destroys this idea. In Hebrews 11 and 12, the writer places Old Testament saints and New Covenant believers into the exact same stadium, running the exact same race, looking toward the exact same prize. They are intrinsically linked to our completion, not segregated into a separate division barred off from grace.

Hebrews is not the teachings of Paul for today

Hopefully this helps you :-

Why Paul? - doctrine.org

Introduction This two-word question is the most important question in New Testament studies. It is not an overstatement to say that without a correct answer to this question little can be understood of Christianity. The whole doctrine of ecclesiology, God’s…

doctrine.org

 

[beechan]

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved
The JSOC is for saved believers, not the lost
Where do you believe Paul teaches that Adam, Moses, Abraham, Lot etc are included in this particular judgement ?

Rom 14:10
1 Cor 3:10-15
2 Cor 5:6-10

The Greek word which is translated as 'suffer loss' is zemiothesetai. It comes from the Greek word zemioo. Forms of this same Greek word, zemioo – which is translated as 'suffer loss' in 1 Cor. 3:15 – are found in other passages in the Bible. The word is used to mean punishment. In Exodus 21:22, Proverbs 17:26, Proverbs 19:19 and elsewhere, this very Greek word zemioo is used to mean punishment. That means that zemiothesetai, the word translated as suffer loss in 1 Cor. 3:15, can mean punishment.


So, the man who suffers loss and is saved by fire can mean a man who is punished and is saved by fire. Doesn’t that sound just like Purgatory? Yes, it sounds exactly like Purgatory because that’s what it’s referring to

 

[beechan]

Hebrews is not the teachings of Paul for today

Hopefully this helps you :-

No, throwing me a link helps nothing.
Give us YOUR arguments, not links.

 

[Dryhn]

The Greek word which is translated as 'suffer loss' is zemiothesetai. It comes from the Greek word zemioo. Forms of this same Greek word, zemioo – which is translated as 'suffer loss' in 1 Cor. 3:15 – are found in other passages in the Bible. The word is used to mean punishment. In Exodus 21:22, Proverbs 17:26, Proverbs 19:19 and elsewhere, this very Greek word zemioo is used to mean punishment. That means that zemiothesetai, the word translated as suffer loss in 1 Cor. 3:15, can mean punishment.


So, the man who suffers loss and is saved by fire can mean a man who is punished and is saved by fire. Doesn’t that sound just like Purgatory? Yes, it sounds exactly like Purgatory because that’s what it’s referring t

The works that fail the test are burned yet the believer enters the judgement saved and remains saved
Paul teaches how a believer under his Gospel is saved which you will see is NOT works/performance related.
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
then the works/performance conditions :-
Titus 3:5-7
Eph 2:8-9
Gal 2:16
Rom 3:28
Rom 4:5
Rom 5:1

 

[Dryhn]

No, throwing me a link helps nothing.
Give us YOUR arguments, not links.

You refusal to read it confirms your bias

 

[beechan]

The works that fail the test are burned yet the believer enters the judgement saved and remains saved
Paul teaches how a believer under his Gospel is saved which you will see is NOT works/performance related.
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13
then the works/performance conditions :-
Titus 3:5-7
Eph 2:8-9
Gal 2:16
Rom 3:28
Rom 4:5
Rom 5:1

Repeating your post without new argument does not make you sound right.
And your post is not an counter arguement on my #206 post.
This suggests you have no idea on how to rebuke my argument #206.

So, Paul was not talking about 'suffer loss' and still saved.
Catholics explanation: we have to be purified, by fire...and saved...is more sensible.

Do you think people can simply walk out from a burning apartment, just suffer loss and safed?

 

[Dryhn]

Repeating your post without new argument does not make you sound right.
And your post is not an counter arguement on my #206 post.
This suggests you have no idea on how to rebuke my argument #206.

Why Paul? - doctrine.org

Introduction This two-word question is the most important question in New Testament studies. It is not an overstatement to say that without a correct answer to this question little can be understood of Christianity. The whole doctrine of ecclesiology, God’s…

doctrine.org

What parts of the content does your Catholic bias disagree with ?

 

[beechan]

Why Paul? - doctrine.org

Introduction This two-word question is the most important question in New Testament studies. It is not an overstatement to say that without a correct answer to this question little can be understood of Christianity. The whole doctrine of ecclesiology, God’s…

doctrine.org

What parts of the content does your Catholic bias disagree with ?

Which part of your passage you think Catholics cannot rebuke?

 

[beechan]

Hebrews is not the teachings of Paul for today

Hopefully this helps you :-

Why Paul? - doctrine.org

Introduction This two-word question is the most important question in New Testament studies. It is not an overstatement to say that without a correct answer to this question little can be understood of Christianity. The whole doctrine of ecclesiology, God’s…

doctrine.org

wow.....would it mean that the teaching today of your congregation is not that of Paul and not that of the scripture too?

 

[Stumpmaster]

it is reasonable to believe that he did repent.

Hardly, or he (Judas) would have remained alive and joined the growing number of disciples and followers of Jesus in spreading the Good News of salvation by grace THROUGH faith in the risen Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

I grew up in the Southern Baptist tradition. I watched my mother rededicate her life to Christ probably half a dozen times. What I never saw was my mother truly walking with Christ. Was she a believer? Probably, that's not my call. If she was, she bore little fruit and was quickly pruned. She died at the early age of 41.
I'm not sure why I mentioned this, except that it seems to me that OSAS doctrine can be a doubled edged sword.
For those who understand it correctly, it is the blessed hope that causes us to endure.
For those who do not it will either lead to licentiousness, self condemnation, or self righteous judgment of others.
To open a thread for the sole purpose of instigating (as the history of former threads would indicate) a debate for which there will be no resolution, and will certainly lead to much bitter disagreement between brethren, IMHO is the precise definition of what was being warned against in the passage I quoted above.
But of course, everyone is free to carry on in whatever way they so desire.
As for me, I've offered my two cents and will now quietly show myself to the door.

I very much dislike how the OP opened up this discussion.

However, yes, it is the most discussed topic on these forums.
(Some ban this altogether)

Why do you think that is?

 

[rwb]

I understand that GOD knows who will be saved BUT if GOD PRE-determines who will be saved then these following verses are a lie

2 Pet 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Tim 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

How are they a lie?

 

[rwb]

Judas was not under the death, burial, resurrection gospel taught uniquely to Paul by Christ - Gal 1:11-12, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13

Paul, writing to the Philippian church indicates here the importance of hearing the gospel preached, whether by he or someone else. So long as Christ is preached even by some who did so out of contention, not sincerely, even out of envy and strife, still Paul rejoiced because Christ is preached. The power of the gospel of Christ is not from the person who preaches. It is through the Word itself; the gospel of the Kingdom of God preached that is the power to save whosoever hears and believes according to grace through faith.

Php 1:12 ¶ But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;
Php 1:13 So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places;
Php 1:14 And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
Php 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
Php 1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
Php 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
Php 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ demonstrates the Spirit and of the power of God to all who shall be saved.

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

 

[rwb]

If believers are already saved, what is the point of placing them in front of the judgement seat of Christ?

To learn obedience through suffering, when we do not heed the voice of the Spirit of Christ in us. In this life disobedience of believers brings correction/chastening from God. While obedience in this life shall bring many blessings from God.

1 Thessalonians 5:19 (KJV) Quench not the Spirit.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Hebrews 5:8 (KJV) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Heb 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Heb 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Luke 6:38 (KJV) Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Mark 10:30 (KJV) But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Lu 18:29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
Lu 18:30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

 

[rwb]

If believers are already saved, what is the point of placing them in front of the judgement seat of Christ?

Are good believers goto better places of heaven: villas and mansions. Ordinary you and me goto heaven slums?

You guys are making funny, illogical hermeneutics of the Bible.

ETA:
It only makes sense that even believers have to be judged. Judge what?
2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."


Again, it is faith + good works. Both are needed.

Yes, both are needed, but don't confuse the good works we do because we are saved, with the good work of salvation the Lord alone has done through His life, death and resurrection.

 

[beechan]

Yes, both are needed, but don't confuse the good works we do because we are saved, with the good work of salvation the Lord alone has done through His life, death and resurrection.

yes,of course Jesus has done his part. Haven’t we done our part?