The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[soberxp]

When Jesus mentions “rooms” and “coming again,” it is not to describe the architectural structure of heaven, but to use the image of “home” to give his disciples a certain, intimate, and eternal promise: you have a place in the Father’s house; I will personally come to receive you, so that you may be with me forever. Answer by Ai.

 

[jeffweeder]

Where does Paul teach melt, intense heat, gathering by angels in his rapture verses ?

2Thess 1
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].


Peter, in his discourse has this to say about Paul regarding these end time things...,

our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given to him [by God], 16 speaking about these things as he does in all of his letters. In which there are some things that are difficult to understand, which the untaught and unstable [who have fallen into error] twist and misinterpret, just as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

They are speaking of the same promise of the Lords coming......of course.

 

[jeffweeder]

The tares don't go through the tribulation? Is that what you're saying this parable teaches?

You know it isn't
.
You said...,
CrowCross said:
Is this the rapture? If it is the rapture it sounds pre-trib to me.
God removes the wheat and leaves the tares for the tribulation.

I replied...,
jeffweeder said:
The tares are not left for the Tribulation but are gathered first


We were discussing the harvest at the time, and I posted scripture that the wheat isn't harvested first but the tares are

This contradicted your idea of a pretrib rapture understanding of the text.

Jesus comes after the tribulation to harvest the whole field (world).

 

[Dryhn]

2Thess 1
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him].


Peter, in his discourse has this to say about Paul regarding these end time things...,

our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given to him [by God], 16 speaking about these things as he does in all of his letters. In which there are some things that are difficult to understand, which the untaught and unstable [who have fallen into error] twist and misinterpret, just as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

They are speaking of the same promise of the Lords coming......of course.

1Thess 4:16-17 is the rapture not 2 Thess 1:8

 

[ewq1938]

Why would Jesus mention rooms in heaven and say He's coming back for us?

Because they are for the time between the cross and second coming which is why they are mentioned before he addresses his Comin g. After that he returns and then declares where he is we shall also be, which is Earth not heaven. Not once does he say anything about returning to heaven with anyone.

Why would He mention the rooms being in heaven?

Because they are. They are temporary. You know Earth is the eternal home for all right? That change starts at the second coming where no saved person can die anymore, which means no spirit traveling to heaven since there is no more death. Make sense?

 

[ewq1938]

1Thess 4:16-17 is the rapture not 2 Thess 1:8

2 Thess 1:8 is what happens after the rapture, same with Rev 19.

 

[jeffweeder]

1Thess 4:16-17 is the rapture not 2 Thess 1:8

The rapture is all about the glorification of the dead and living saints when he comes again. You agree?

Do you really think Paul would write a second letter to the Thessalonians speaking of an entirely different coming without informing them that it was different to what he preciously had written to them???

 

[CrowCross]

When Jesus mentions “rooms” and “coming again,” it is not to describe the architectural structure of heaven, but to use the image of “home” to give his disciples a certain, intimate, and eternal promise: you have a place in the Father’s house; I will personally come to receive you, so that you may be with me forever. Answer by Ai.

Receive those in the resurrection/rapture to heaven.

Where do you plan on living in heaven?

Who's building the New Jerusalem?

 

[CrowCross]

Because they are for the time between the cross and second coming which is why they are mentioned before he addresses his Comin g. After that he returns and then declares where he is we shall also be, which is Earth not heaven. Not once does he say anything about returning to heaven with anyone.

Have fun with that.

NEXT

 

[soberxp]

Where do you plan on living in heaven?

On the tree of life.

Who's building the New Jerusalem?

Faith.

 

[CrowCross]

On the tree of life.

Will you be living on the tree of life like a monkey? Will you have a tree fort in its branches?

Faith.

How does "Faith" build the New Jerusalem?

 

[William Barton]

Receive those in the resurrection/rapture to heaven.

Where do you plan on living in heaven?

Who's building the New Jerusalem?

This is the Jewish marriage tradition, in which the groom builds an addition onto his father's house, and then comes to the bride's father's house, at an unexpected time, and takes her to his own father's house.

Likewise Jesus will come from the sky at an unexpected time, descend to a cloud, take up his bride (the Church), and bring them to his father's house in heaven. See Revelation 14:16, 1Thessalonians 4:16-17.

Heaven is much like earth, but better (no mosquitos, floods, etc.).

Finally this current universe will be disposed, and a new heavens and earth will be created. New Jerusalem from heaven will come down from the sky to the new earth (see Revelation chapters 21, 22), and we will be transferred there.

It's in the bag. we just need to be patient.

 

[CrowCross]

This is the Jewish marriage tradition, in which the groom builds an addition onto his father's house, and then comes to the bride's father's house, at an unexpected time, and takes her to his own father's house.

Likewise Jesus will come from the sky at an unexpected time, descend to a cloud, take up his Church, and bring them to his fathers house in heaven. See Revelation 14:16, 1Thessalonians 4:16-17.

Heaven is much like earth, but better (no mosquitos, floods, etc.).

New Jerusalem from heaven will be delivered from the sky to the *new* earth (see Revelation chapters 21, 22), and we will be transferred there.

It's in the bag. we just need to be patient.

The Jewish tradition even contains more details....The bridegroom pays a dowery to the father....(Jesus paid the price for our sins to the Father)

 

[rebuilder 454]

Hi, CC …
In Revelation 6:2, there is a rider on a white horse with a crown and a bow who goes out to take over the world. This is actually Satan pretending to be the Antichrist. He doesn't come fighting a war—since he has no arrows—but instead tricks people by pretending to bring peace. He looks powerful, but it's all a fake. He uses flashy tricks and fake miracles to fool people into following him.

This rider is very different from the real Jesus, who shows up later in Revelation 19 in all His glory. The "bow" this first rider carries is like a cheap imitation, showing that everything the Antichrist offers is a lie. He targets people who are desperate to escape their lives by promising them whatever they want. Those who don't really know the Bible will be the easiest to fool, just like some of the churches mentioned earlier in the book. In the end, once the real Christ returns, this fake rider will be defeated and thrown into the pit.

Those that don't know their bible???
You have been introduced to what, about 13 OMITTED PASSAGES that totally blow your deal to pieces??????

You got a big education and cast down every single passage.
You are in here with your teachers making a fool of you.
We run circles around the best of you.
Put your top gun against me and watch me FORCE HIM to go against the bible

He will be seated in the ashes of his own doctrine saying "see, see, there is no pretrib rapture through his charred lying lips"

After 8 0r 10 verses against your zero, the ONLY TRUTH is that you guys are dishonest.

You totally miss the purpose of the rapture , and are clueless as to WHAT THE RAPTURE IS.
None of you know that.
Absolutely NONE OF YOU KNOW the purposes of end times.

Go to ANY OF YOUR TEACHERS, And find ANYWHERE, that they incorporate the purposes of God in end times.

To make it worse YOUR DOCTRINE demands ALL OF YOU BECOME RT ADHERENTS.

WOW
..YET ANOTHER TOYALLY FALSE MESSED UP DOCTRINE.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This is the Jewish marriage tradition, in which the groom builds an addition onto his father's house, and then comes to the bride's father's house, at an unexpected time, and takes her to his own father's house.

Likewise Jesus will come from the sky at an unexpected time, descend to a cloud, take up his Church, and bring them to his fathers house in heaven. See Revelation 14:16, 1Thessalonians 4:16-17.

Heaven is much like earth, but better (no mosquitos, floods, etc.).

Finally this current universe will be disposed, and new heavens and earth will be created. New Jerusalem from heaven will be delivered from the sky to the new earth (see Revelation chapters 21, 22), and we will be transferred there.

It's in the bag. we just need to be patient.

No.
Rev 14 has no church rapture in it.
Those gathered by Jesus sitting on a cloud,
Can not POSSIBLY be the Church

100% impossible.
Psssst, their FIRSTFRUITS ARE 144,000 MEN.
(The firstfruits of the church is Jesus).

To make it worse, Jesus TOLD US the setting of the rapture ....WHICH IS 100% OPPOSITE YOUR THEORY OF THE RAPTURE.

But just believe what you are told.
I know those facts mean nothing to you.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I would say Revelation 14:14 is the rapture of living believers to heaven. Jesus does not set foot on the earth at that time, but it still is a coming to the sky of the earth, occurring at the seventh ("last" of seven) trumpet (1Corinthians15:51-52).

Revelation 19:11 is the return of Jesus to earth with all believers who have ever lived. That is a coming.

I would say Jesus's birth was a coming, since what was in Mary was the direct action of God the Father, implanting the seed of the man Jesus into the womb of Mary.

Likewise I suppose the departure of Jesus from the grave was a coming, since he came and appeared to many witnesses before returning to heaven.

He is a busy person.

I debunked your theory of rev 14 twice.

 

[William Barton]

<Revelation 14:14 has no church rapture in it.>

Then what is Jesus doing in Revelation 14:14-16?
Maybe sun bathing?

 

[William Barton]

It’s getting close; the latter days are already here. Let’s not be deceived.

The gathering of believers to Christ will only occur after the Antichrist has reigned.

The popular "Rapture" theory, specifically the Pre-tribulation view, suggests that Christ will remove the church before the tribulation begins. This view claims believers will be whisked away to safety, avoiding all the fear and chaos of the Antichrist. However, this idea lacks biblical support and suggests a cowardice inconsistent with the faith of those who have died defending the truth. Our protection comes from God, our Rock, not from physical hiding places like caves in Petra.

Scripture is clear that the return of Christ happens at the last trump, after the "man of sin" is revealed. In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Paul explicitly warns believers not to be deceived: the Day of Christ cannot come until there is a great falling away and the son of perdition is revealed. This false messiah will exalt himself and sit in the temple of God, claiming to be God.

While some theorists claim that the "restrainer" mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 is the Holy Spirit being removed during a Rapture, this is very poor scholarship. The context makes it clear that the restrainer is holding back Satan, not the church. In reality, the Archangel Michael is the one restraining Satan in heaven.

Satan’s spirit is active on earth, but he himself is not yet here in person. He will be cast out by Michael and his angels, arriving on earth first to reign as the false christ. Only after this event will the gathering to Christ occur. Do not be deceived by theories; rely solely on the Word of God.

Remember, Jesus Christ IS NOT returning until the great apostasy (falling away) occurs AFTER Satan, the son of perdition (meaning the son who will perish), is revealed.

IMO:
"Spared chaos" for believers is being spared from the Bowl judgments, which, like the Genesis flood, are the direct wrath of God. They will be horrendous, hence the rapture.

 

[Sel@h]

IMO:
The "spared chaos" for believers is being spared from the Bowl judgments, which, like the Genesis flood, are the direct wrath of God. They will be horrible, hence the rapture.

That cup of wrath (the bowl judgments) is poured out towards all those who are deceived into worshiping the Antichrist and his one-world system. The bowl judgements happen at the 7th trump right before the Millennium. Believers who are sealed with the truth of God’s Word will be spared.

 

[Taken]

Nope, same return. There's only one second coming which is when the resurrection and rapture happen, and shortly after the battle of Armageddon.

The “com-ING”…is a series…

The “com-ING”…
Reveals FROM where TO where.

It is imperative to KNOW Where the Lord IS…TO KNOW FROM where He Comes And TO WHERE He Goes.

Tracking step by step… WHERE Christ the Lord Jesus IS…Reveals WHERE He IS…
com-ING FROM… Go-iNG TO… Paus-ING,
Do-ING WHAT… and WHY…

BEFORE…HIS “RETURN” …
TO THE EARTH, that He Left.

No… the RAPTURE and RESURRECTION(S)…
Are NOT the same “Events”,
Those “EVENTS”, Do NOT affect the “SAME” People…Souls of men, spirits of men…

Each “Com-ING” series /paus-ING, Reveals WHAT the Lord IS “DO-ING, And WHOM His “DO-ING, specifically “EFFECTS”. And WHY.

BEFORE, His “RETURN” TO Earth.

Once accomplished…The Understanding…of the Big picture … comes into View … and the Com-ING and RETURN are no longer blurred as Being the Same thing.

Glory to God,
Taken