Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

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Episkopos

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None of this will get you into the kingdom of God.

It's amazing that you can't see you are guilty of the very same thing you say Protestant Evangelicals are guilty of, lol. You're no different than the people you judge and criticize!
The difference is that I'm comparing to myself...not claiming any standard. I'm NOT getting more righteous in my own eyes. Of course such details escape you. To say I'm sinning less assumes that I fully understand every possible avenue of sin...only God can judge the intents of the heart.

Things to avoid.

1. I'm sinning less

2. I'm getting more righteous

3. I am become the righteousness of God.
 

Judge Hardcastle

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Declaring oneself righteous based on beliefs would never occur to a Catholic...
You do not know Catholics, lol.

So then for the most part Protestantism is a Pharisee making machine. People read themselves into the bible the way children read a heroic story and pretend they are the hero.
You show that you do not know Protestant Evangelicalism. JESUS is the hero, through and through in Protestantism. How did you miss this! You are the hero in your 'gospel'. How great thou art that you follow (so you say) God's commandments and are not like other men!

Tell me this isn't you:

Luke 18:11
11 ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men'

Go ahead, tell me that's not you.
 
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Lizbeth

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That's not true. No one knows why a righteous man does righteous things. And for you to think you know means you are seeking to establish your own righteousness.


This is a very minority position concerning righteousness...based on seeing righteousness in a religious way whereby we may justify ourselves. In the sight of God NO man can justify himself....for any reason.


Evangelicalism does the very same thing based on beliefs. People keep dodging the truth while they seek to satisfy a carnal mind.

Submitting oneself to the righteousness of God is not the same as claiming to be God's righteousness for Him.


That's right. God's way in Christ is a perfect way in holiness.

This is muddled thinking. Only God can determine what is of faith...only He can make us enter into the holy place to offer up a holy sacrifice. Again modern evangelicalism determines for itself what is of faith (actually just beliefs) in order to CLAIM to NOT be offering strange fire.
No, I'm afraid you are muddling things up. And God does give us discernment, as well as His word, to know and determine things. God gave man instruction not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, correct? Why is that? What does a tree represent in scripture? And fruit? Are we to eat the fruit of the tree of man (self), or the fruit of the tree of Christ? One leads to death and the other to life.

Why could the Jews not receive eternal life through the Law? The Law only had promises for THIS life...prosperity, health, victory in war, etc....material blessing instead of cursing as pertains to this life. Otherwise a new and better covenant wouldn't have been needed. And what if righteous Cornelius had told Peter when he came preaching the gospel, "Thanks Pete, but no thanks, I'm good. I give alms, I pray to God, and worship Him every Sabbath, I am a kind and helpful person." Would Cornelius have been saved/received eternal life?

I agree we cannot justify ourselves.........it is the LORD who justifies those who come to Him by faith......He grants righteousness as a gift....the righteousness which is by faith. According to God's word, but not according to Episkopos.
 
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Lizbeth

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You do know that God did not desire sacrifice but rather right living toward others? He spoke many times about this.
I desire mercy, not sacrifice, a peaceful harvest of right living, you do not delight in sacrifice or I would bring it, burnt offering and sin offering you did not desire, I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls, I did not speak to your fathers about sacrifice on the day I freed them from their bondage, to hearken is better than to sacrifice. There are so many verses that show this.
Go and learn what it means to say one is trampling the blood of Jesus underfoot because truly, you do it.
Wow, are you saying the cross is optional, and that God didn't desire to bring in the new covenant with the sacrifice of His Son? Jesus submitted to and obeyed the Father's WILL in going to the cross. It is through Jesus' sacrifice that He demonstrated His mercy.......He fulfilled His own Law on behalf of those who would receive His Son, at great cost to Himself. And now we are to bring forth spiritual fruit (not just "right living") to God's glory, not ours, in keeping with repentance......which we could not do without first having received Christ. His sacrifice was certainly not an occasion for joy, but it was the only way anyone could be saved.
 
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Lizbeth

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Protestantism is good for a very small minority...but a lot worse for most. Declaring oneself righteous based on beliefs would never occur to a Catholic, for example. So then for the most part Protestantism is a Pharisee making machine. People read themselves into the bible the way children read a heroic story and pretend they are the hero. What is OK for a 3 year old is not OK for adults. Pretend heroes crucified Christ.

So I se most modern evangelicals as pretenders.
The GOSPEL is not "protestantism". Protestantism is the name Catholics and the world gave to true Christ following, bible believing Christians who don't accept the Catholic religion. I have never thought of myself as "protestant", just Christian....and that by the sheer mercy of God.
 
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Episkopos

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No, I'm afraid you are muddling things up. And God does give us discernment, as well as His word, to know and determine things. God gave man instruction not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, correct? Why is that? What does a tree represent in scripture? And fruit? Are we to eat the fruit of the tree of man (self), or the fruit of the tree of Christ? One leads to death and the other to life.

So you are saying that the bible is the tree of life? Or is it not the tree that gives us the knowledge of good and evil?
Why could the Jews not receive eternal life through the Law? The Law only had promises for THIS life...prosperity, health, victory in war, etc....material blessing instead of cursing as pertains to this life. Otherwise a new and better covenant wouldn't have been needed. And what if righteous Cornelius had told Peter when he came preaching the gospel, "Thanks Pete, but no thanks, I'm good. I give alms, I pray to God, and worship Him every Sabbath, I am a kind and helpful person." Would Cornelius have been saved/received eternal life?


Cornelius was already on the path of salvation. He was already righteous, therefore he would accept whatever God had for him. Remember that Cornelius was not the one going looking for salvation. "I was found of those who sought me not"
I agree we cannot justify ourselves.........it is the LORD who justifies those who come to Him by faith......He grants righteousness as a gift....the righteousness which is by faith. According to God's word, but not according to Episkopos.
Again, you are claiming something for your beliefs. By the bible is the knowledge of righteousness...but the bible does not impart righteousness. Only those with selective reading declare themselves as being righteous.

If God takes you to a holy place then you realize you have been given the gift of righteousness in Christ. And that only persists until you fail the grace of God and fall out of the Spirit. Repentance is then required...

There is no permanent righteous status.

If the Publican began judging others he would have lost his right standing with God.

The same goes for forgiveness. Forgiveness can be revoked...as we see with the man who was forgiven 10,000 talents.
 
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Lizbeth

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So you are saying that the bible is the tree of life? Or is it not the tree that gives us the knowledge of good and evil?



Cornelius was already on the path of salvation. He was already righteous, therefore he would accept whatever God had for him. Remember that Cornelius was not the one going looking for salvation. "I was found of those who sought me not"

Again, you are claiming something for your beliefs. By the bible is the knowledge of righteousness...but the bible does not impart righteousness. Only those with selective reading declare themselves as being righteous.
Christ Himself is the Tree of Life.........it is HIS fruit (righteousness) that we are to produce in keeping with repentance and what He has done IN us, in making us a new creature.
 

Episkopos

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Christ Himself is the Tree of Life.........it is HIS fruit (righteousness) that we are to produce in keeping with repentance and what He has done IN us, in making us a new creature.
This is the bait and switch that every dishonest pretender pulls when they have painted themselves into a corner.

Christ is not involved in the name and claim game. It's ALL human speculation.
 

Judge Hardcastle

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Which of the verses I gave do you think presents that?
She can fill in the details, but when you post scriptures un-rightly divided away from the full counsel of the Bible you make the blood of Christ unneeded for the forgiveness of sin, not just the removal of sin.

You are literally an unbeliever. You do not believe and trust in the blood of Christ to make you right with God. You trust in and rely on the work of your obedience to be right with God. That puts you under the curse of the law because you don't always do what is right all of the time. And you reject the blood of Christ for forgiveness for your sinful failure.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Yes… which Applies to those “NON-COMMITTED Believers…”

It does NOT apply to “the Already Sav-ED.”

Keep believing (“by their own power”) until their bodily Death.

And that means Already Sav-ED…
And can never Again “Not Believe”…
Because it IS “the Power OF God”, within a saved man, that Keeps the man Sav-ED…Forever.
Ie OSAS.

Power of man is weak… thus the warning to ENDURE.
The Power of God in a man is Supreme…
Thus once saved, that man can NOT fail.

Sin….IS Against God, not men.
Sin…IS unbelief in God.
Trespasses is men Against men.



Rejecting Once Saved… Always Saved… is simply Rejecting Gods Power in you to Keep you Saved… while trying to Convince me… you believe the power of God in you has kept you Saved, when your own power (beforehand) failed.
Nonsensical.
The opposite of believing is not apostasy, but disobedience. I'm still not sure what you believe. Sometimes your posts are confusing and alien. Have you read Judge's posts? Do you believe the same, or differently?
 

1stCenturyLady

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Jesus's never-ending intercessory ministry and sacrifice before the Father in heaven that I believe and trust in forgives all the sins I commit in my progress toward the image and stature of Jesus. That doesn't even register with you, does it? You seem to have a profound lack of knowledge of the book of Hebrews.
Seeing as you seem to only read Hebrews and not the rest of the New Covenant, I'm not sure you know there are two types of sin. Sins unto death and sins not unto death. So which type of sins do you willfully commit because they are forgiven anyway.
It means the same thing there as it does in the book of Hebrews. The power and stain of sin is removed in the ministry and sacrifice of Christ. That doesn't mean you are unable to sin. It means the power and guilt of sin that could not be removed through the Levitical priesthood and sacrifice is removed in Christ's Priesthood and Sacrifice.
Show me the verse that talks about the guilt of sin is no longer there when you commit sin?
I know what it is to no longer want to sin in the depth of my inner man, but still be tempted by sin in the outer man, the flesh. And I know the power of God to drive temptation away. What I do not know is the believer, like you, who is neither tempted by sin, and who does not sin because they can't sin (according to your definition of 'can't sin'). The believer you describe does not exist in scripture. You are living a delusion.
Temptation is not sin, it is what leads to sin. How far do you go? If you truly act on the "driving temptation away," then I can agree with that regarding sin. But most of your posts regarding sin is the theology of defeatism. You even make Jesus a party to your sin. That's shameful.
 

Judge Hardcastle

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I'm not sure you know there are two types of sin. Sins unto death and sins not unto death.
In this New Covenant there is one sin unto death, not many. That's because the sins that were unto death and couldn't be forgiven under the old covenant are forgiven in this New Covenant. Acts 13:38-39 explains this. So there are no sins unto death anymore (except the sin of willful and informed unbelief, a.k.a blasphemy of the Spirit). Why are you ignoring this very clear teaching in scripture and insisting there are still specific sins that can't be forgiven in this New Covenant????

So which type of sins do you willfully commit because they are forgiven anyway.
I do not commit willful, deliberate sins in a turning away from the forgiveness of God in Christ in unbelief. That is blasphemy of the Spirit. There is no forgiveness of sin for the person who rejects in unbelief the testimony of the Spirit about the blood through which those sins would otherwise be forgiven. You can't have the benefit of a sacrifice that you have knowingly rejected in unbelief. That unbelief is the only sin that can't be forgiven.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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In this New Covenant there is one sin unto death, not many. That's because the sins that were unto death and couldn't be forgiven under the old covenant are forgiven in this New Covenant. Acts 13:38-39 explains this. So there are no sins unto death anymore (except the sin of willful and informed unbelief, a.k.a blasphemy of rhe Spirit). Why are you ignoring this very clear teaching in scripture and insisting there are still specific sins that can't be forgiven in this New Covenant????
That is correct. When Jesus takes away our sin in 1 John 3:5 it is talking of lawlessness, verse 4, the context of the chapter. This type of sin has been cleansed from our nature. We do not have a sin nature, but now a clean nature that may partake of the divine nature of God.
I do not commit willful, deliberate sins in a turning away from the forgiveness of God in Christ in unbelief. That is blasphemy of the Spirit. There is no forgiveness of sin for the person who rejects in unbelief the testimony of the Spirit about the blood through which those sins would otherwise be forgiven.
This is also correct. So why do you post half truths most of the time? You make Jesus the Author of sin, instead of the cleansing of sin. You leave the impression that we can sin as much as we please with no GUILT!
 

Judge Hardcastle

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...most of your posts regarding sin is the theology of defeatism. You even make Jesus a party to your sin. That's shameful.
It's not defeatism. It's knowing the truth that children of God grow up to look just like Dad, not start out way. Just as that is true of any legitimate child born into the family. That truth is comforting to the child of God learning and growing up into the things of God. It's a progression as Peter speaks about that in 2 Peter 1.

Your sinless theology is discouraging to honest but weak and immature believers on their way through the desert to the promises of God because they can't be great like you who skipped the desert places and started out in the promised land.
 

1stCenturyLady

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It's not defeatism. It's knowing the truth that children of God grow up to look just like Dad, not start out way. Just as that is true of any legitimate child born into the family. That truth is comforting to the child of God learning and growing up into the things of God. It's a progression as Peter speaks about that in 2 Peter 1.

Your sinless theology is discouraging to honest but weak and immature believers on their way through the desert to the promises of God because they can't be great like you who skipped the desert places and started out in the promised land.

I teach what John taught.

1 John 3:4-9
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
 

Judge Hardcastle

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You leave the impression that we can sin as much as we please with no GUILT!
If you knew Protestantism you'd know that it in no way teaches freedom to sin willfully and without guilt with impunity . Reformed doctrine, specifically, says the person who does that is showing themselves to not be born again. How did you not know this?