I'm curious about this section...
Do you have a verse or two that suggest fallen angels have the gift of salvation offered to them?
Once saved always saved
- Thread starter Kayla McCanny
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Do you have a verse or two that suggest fallen angels have the gift of salvation offered to them?
Taken
Well-Known Member
FREEWILL was exercised WHEN a man CHOSE to Accept Gods Offering to Become Made Sealed unto the Lord God Almighty!
And
A man Exercising his FREEWILL
Is: How a man end up in the Hand of God!
Taken
Well-Known Member
No. Little is written in a book about angels that was designed for Humans.
Moreso my summation, via knowing there is a precise difference between … holy and unholy angels… that were all created “holy”…
And with FREEWILL.
Angels ARE spirits…
They can not Die…
Never read that they have a soul… or that they can be Forgiven.
It is a mystery…
Are angels Offered Salvation or Created with it … ??
Or
created with it And will always Have it?
Or
created with it and will always have it WITH God, If they remain holy?
Doesn’t appears to be necessary information / understanding for a humans standpoint.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
What? a creature with Free will?
Impossible, because this is Sound doctrine, eh?:
I - am - a - ro-bot - can - only - do - what - my - de-sign-er - - pro-gram-med - - me - to - do - amen.
Then What do - we [ Unaccountable for our own actions ] - do With This { Unsound (?) } Doctrine Of God?:
Surely, the critics of Free Will jest, eh?
Impossible, because this is Sound doctrine, eh?:
I - am - a - ro-bot - can - only - do - what - my - de-sign-er - - pro-gram-med - - me - to - do - amen.
Then What do - we [ Unaccountable for our own actions ] - do With This { Unsound (?) } Doctrine Of God?:
"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying
wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because
they received not The Love Of The Truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That
they all might be damned who believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren Beloved of The Lord, because
God hath from the beginning Chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and
.................... { By God's Foreknowledge of our? }:
belief of The Truth!" (2 Thessalonians 2:9-13 AV) AMEN!!
Surely, the critics of Free Will jest, eh?
Dear Taken,
Having the ability to choose does not mean that a person has a free will ability. Only having the ability to make uncaused choices means that a person has a free will ability. And in case you haven't heard, God the Father is the only one who possesses that ability.
Also, a person only ends up in the hand of God because God chose to make it happen. The person had no say in the matter.
Someday you will understand, but for that to happen, Christ must heal your spiritual blindness so that you have "eyes that can see".
Since none of the scriptures that I have been presenting are benefiting you, it is time to end our discussion.
Joe
Dear Grace ambassador,
Paul addressed the fairness of God holding mankind accountable for their sins since He is the one who causes mankind to sin in the first place.
Here is the scripture:
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
God causes all things in His creation to happen for mankind's benefit. In the case of sin, God causes mankind to sin to teach us about evil. If God didn't hold us accountable for those sins, how would we learn the lesson that He wants to teach us? After evil has run its course, God will teach us about good. It is in this way that God gives mankind the gift of the knowledge of good and evil.
Joe
Taken
Well-Known Member
A man “choosing” is exercising his own authority.
A man choosing “his” will (without encumbrances) is exercising his FREEWILL.
Disagree.
Men Freely choose and exercise their will all day long.
Nonsense.
“Choose you this day…”
“Your election of God”…
Maybe someday you will be given Gods understanding of His Word.
No, I remain totally against the idea of "understanding" those verses in the tin-headed way you do, Dry-boy. Because it is tin-headed.
Well, to, um, "try again," I would have had to at least tried to, you know, "understand" in your tin-headed way of "understanding" those verses at least a first time, right? I mean we could keep going with this if you want, but I would recommend you stop being so tin-headed, but, you know, that's up to you... <smile>Or would you like to try again ?
Grace and peace to you.
To be honest I would rather be a robot than spend eternity separated from my creator. But that's besides the point.
Just because God gives you salvation despite you not wanting it doesn't make one a robot.
Dear CrowCross,
The spiritual work that Christ does within a person is undetectable by the individual. Because of such, a person will think that they can make free will decisions but the truth is they can't.
If a person has been given a sufficient amount of faith, they do not need to be able to detect Christ's spiritual work, they just need to believe what God's Word teaches.
Here is what God's Word teaches:
Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?
Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.
The Doctrine of Free Will is an incredibly important doctrine for apostate believers, because without it, the gospel that they have been following would crumble.
Joe
Taken
Well-Known Member
This may sound good...but do you have a biblical reference for each part of the statement?
RandyDawson
Active Member
Thumbs down for the post saying "God holding mankind accountable for their sins since He is the one who causes mankind to sin in the first place"
Do people really believe we can sow to the flesh and not reap corruption? Apparently many do in the days of the rise of the religious left who believe people can be gay and transgender and still be Christians.
Dear CrowCross,
The verse below presents the main purpose for this creation and that is to make mankind into the image and likeness of God. This is the meaning of life that eludes most people.
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Mankind is presently in the birth process of being born as the children of God.
One of the attributes of God is that He has a knowledge of good and evil. For that reason, God placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden knowing full well (by His direction) that Adam and Eve would eat from it and sin. After they did, they began the process of learning about good and evil.
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:
This scripture applies to learning about good and evil.
1Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
The natural man comes first. The natural man is evil because God created him with a marred spiritual makeup that quickly made him carnally minded.
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Eve is shown to be carnally minded prior to her sinning. It was her carnal mind that caused her to sin.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food (LUST OF THE FLESH), and that it was pleasant to the eyes (LUST OF THE EYES), and a tree to be desired to make one wise (PRIDE OF LIFE), she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
More verses:
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Because God wants mankind to experience evil, God created it and causes mankind to be on the giving end of evil as well as the receiving end of evil.
Here are a few more verses:
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Prov 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. (All mankind will experience the Day of Evil)
Ecc 7:13 Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?
Job 2:10 But he said to her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. We have also received good from God, and should we not receive evil? In all this Job did not sin with his lips.
Lam 3:38 Out of the mouth of the Most High doth not there proceed evil and good?
Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Man will live (be saved) by consuming both bread (truth of God) and leavened bread (lies of Satan) along with the good and evil that comes from God's mouth.
In the end, all mankind will become the children of God who are fully made in the image and likeness of their Father. They will have a full understanding the goodness of God because they will also have a full understanding of evil (you can't have one without the other).
Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners (children of the devil), so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous (children of God).
1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Joe
RandyDawson
Active Member
Not according to Jesus. We should pay attention to Him.
Matthew 7:13,14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
All mankind is not in the process of being saved. The coming one world religion will claim that, but the Lord does not teach that
Chaplain James
Member
John 10:28-30. "28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” ESV
Dear RandyDawson,
In Mat 7:13-14, Christ is teaching on the sheep (elect) who will enter the narrow gate and the goats who will not find the narrow gate. The goats will go to "destruction" in the Lake of Fire upon their resurrection from the grave. However, that is not the end of the story.
The Lake of Fire is a symbol for judgment. It is not literal fire. Since all judgment was given to Christ, Christ will administer the judgment of the goats. And since Christ's judgment is not like mankind's judgment, He will not omit MERCY, FAITH, AND JUSTICE during each lost person's time of judgment.
The verses below describe Christ's judgment:
Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.
Prov 28:5 Evil men (all mankind which includes unconverted babes in the church) understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.
Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness AND JUDGMENT: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: JUSTICE, MERCY AND FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun (Christ is the Sun) to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain (the Early and Latter Rain) on the just (the elect) and on the unjust (everyone else).
Christ's mercy will manifest itself as the Early and Latter Rains which He will freely give to the "lost". With the Holy Spirit now indwelling each lost person, they will be born again as a child of God. With this new birth, the person will also have the faith they need to make Christ's pathway "straight" for Him to appear and commence His judgment upon the child of the Devil (who the person used to be). From this judgment, the child of the devil will perish. This death will satisfy justice. After the death of the child of the devil, the person will be fully converted into a child of God. This is mankind's salvation that Christ came to freely give us.
This scripture applies to Christ's judgment of the lost in the Lake of Fire:
1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he (the elect) shall receive a reward (life during the ages with Christ). 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire (the Lake of Fire).
After Christ has converted the last person of mankind, the verses below will be testified to be true:
Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.
1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Restated by Paul:
Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Joe
RandyDawson
Active Member
Notice this promise is ONLY for those that not only hear His voice, but for those that actually follow Him - walking in agreement with Him
John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me
RandyDawson
Active Member
I was hoping you could have done better. For example here you assume..speculate...God wanted Adam and Eve to have the knowledge of Good and Evil and by His direction had them eat from the tree. Seriously?
Here you misapplied the verse...
The words "and created evil"...are a bad translation and don't fit with the poetic parallelism used in the bible. A better word is calamity.
Do you follow any denomination in particular that teaches what you wrote or did you pretty much derive it on your own?
Similar threads
