Can we know the day and hour of Jesus' return?

[ewq1938]

We know the tribulation will be for 7 years...

Jesus said it would be shortened so it cannot still be the same length it originally was.

 

[ewq1938]

Did you just completely ignore what I said? Beyond 1260 days are 4 more days in which the 2 witnesses lie in the streets of Jerusalem.

The 2W are two churches and two persons but the ones dead in the streets are two persons so part of the 2W will lie dead in the streets not the fully and complete 2W. IOW the two prophets will lie there, not the 2W.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The 2W are two churches and two persons but the ones dead in the streets are two persons so part of the 2W will lie dead in the streets not the fully and complete 2W. IOW the two prophets will lie there, not the 2W.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

Saying "these are the two olive trees" doesn't say they are "two churches." It may imply that for you, but I need something more clear for me.

But it is a very mysterious prophecy. A favorite teacher of mine many years ago thought the 2 Witnesses were symbolic of Israel and the Church. Symbolic interpretations can get very convoluted, it seems? I prefer trying to avoid them unless they are painfully obvious.

Take care...

 

[CrowCross]

The big problem is defining "soon." Are you saying that Christ will return in the next 5 or 6 days? Or exactly a year? Or two years? Or 5 years. This is why I said that the time frame of Christ's return (The Rapture, not the Second Coming) is no where in the Bible given. But, if you're talking about the Second Coming, the it can be calculated from the signing of the covenant. But, the Church will be gone to heaven before the signing of the covenant. The Rapture comes before the signing of the covenant.

Once reason I don't think his return is within 1 year is because in the Tribulation, the USA does not seem to be a powerful nation. Answer me this: if Christ does not return in 4 months, will you say that Christ's return is now most definitely within the next 3 years, are you still going to argue that his soon return is just around the corner. What will you say if the Rapture of the Bride has not happened in 5 years, will you concede then that his return is not soon, in a short period of finite time?

I think it is entirely possible that the King of the West (the Antichrist) defeats the USA and weakens them significantly. But you also have to see Israel as weakened as well. This is why the signing of the 7 year covenant takes place. Israel will need a strong power to protect it against other nations (now that the US is out of the picture), and the Antichrist will be right there to draft this covenant, and Israel, who will be desperate at this time, will sign the covenant, unaware of who the King of the North really is.

Go ahead and list for us the "a whole list of things that show the soon arrival of Jesus...." Be sure to clearly define how long is "soon."

Christ could arrive and rapture the church at any time. There is no biblical reason to hold up that event.
What we do know is that there are events that the bible speaks of that will happen after the rapture.
Rev 13 and the mark of the beast is one of those post rapture events.
As little as several years ago technology wasn't developed to the point that a world wide system could be developed that could control all financial transactions. Today for the most part we have that technology...the backbone...but do not have it in place yet. or, it's in place but simply needs to be switched on.
A recent addition was the development of AI.
The ability to install a central bank digital currency run by AI is now possible. Some say it's in place but simply needs to be switched on.
Currently there is technology with the ability to interact with such a banking system that can be interfaced with recently developed technology such as Luciferase quantum dot tattoo technology.
There currently is an agenda being pushed by the "globalist community" that is entertaining what they call 15 min cities.
There is the desire for a centralized banking institute.
There is a push for Universal basic income.
There currently is a push for a one world government as the synchronicity of religion is being adopted by many.
Just last week there was a group that was initiating the Noahide Law.
Recently many countries not know to be hostile towards christianity have established laws against preaching from certain portions of the bible.
Facial recognition, geo fencing, the ability to pull a newer car over to the side of the road, increased data centers being built, 6G networks, self assembling nano technology...how much of a list do you need from recent developed technology does one need to see the beast system is being built?

As to how soon is soon....we can read Rev 8 where disaster is cast down from the heavens and causes a lot of destruction...if Rev 8 is describing the April 15 2029 arrival of asteroid Apophis and it striking the earth the tribulation is just about upon us which is preceded by the rapture. Then again Apophis might just fly by and not strike the earth and simply become a sign in the heavens.

Even the stage for your King of the west scenario could be set and ready to go at almost any moment.

My point is we now have the technology. A few short years ago we didn't.

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus said it would be shortened so it cannot still be the same length it originally was.

No He didn't.

 

[KUWN]

Christ could arrive and rapture the church at any time. There is no biblical reason to hold up that event.
What we do know is that there are events that the bible speaks of that will happen after the rapture.
Rev 13 and the mark of the beast is one of those post rapture events.
As little as several years ago technology wasn't developed to the point that a world wide system could be developed that could control all financial transactions. Today for the most part we have that technology...the backbone...but do not have it in place yet. or, it's in place but simply needs to be switched on.
A recent addition was the development of AI.
The ability to install a central bank digital currency run by AI is now possible. Some say it's in place but simply needs to be switched on.
Currently there is technology with the ability to interact with such a banking system that can be interfaced with recently developed technology such as Luciferase quantum dot tattoo technology.
There currently is an agenda being pushed by the "globalist community" that is entertaining what they call 15 min cities.
There is the desire for a centralized banking institute.
There is a push for Universal basic income.
There currently is a push for a one world government as the synchronicity of religion is being adopted by many.
Just last week there was a group that was initiating the Noahide Law.
Recently many countries not know to be hostile towards christianity have established laws against preaching from certain portions of the bible.
Facial recognition, geo fencing, the ability to pull a newer car over to the side of the road, increased data centers being built, 6G networks, self assembling nano technology...how much of a list do you need from recent developed technology does one need to see the beast system is being built?

As to how soon is soon....we can read Rev 8 where disaster is cast down from the heavens and causes a lot of destruction...if Rev 8 is describing the April 15 2029 arrival of asteroid Apophis and it striking the earth the tribulation is just about upon us which is preceded by the rapture. Then again Apophis might just fly by and not strike the earth and simply become a sign in the heavens.

Even the stage for your King of the west scenario could be set and ready to go at almost any moment.

My point is we now have the technology. A few short years ago we didn't.

So, if I understand what you were trying to say above, you believe that Christ will Rapture his bride before April 15, 2029. (By the way, the date of Apophis is Friday 13th 2029.)

 

[CrowCross]

So, if I understand what you were trying to say above, you believe that Christ will Rapture his bride before April 15, 2029. (By the way, the date of Apophis is Friday 13th 2029.)

You're right...it is the 13th...I don't know why I said the 15th. Perhaps tax day was in my mind or my Grandfathers birthday.

If Apophis is Rev 8...then yes. If you notice I didn't say Apophis was Rev 8. Apophis is simply a candidate. If Apophis is indeed Rev 8 the rapture has to be very soon.

Currently I believe we are in the Matt 24 wars and rumors of wars....ethnicity against ethnicity is certainly expanding.
Earthquakes...seem to be increasing except I expect them to be bigger.
Famine seems to be on the visible horizon thanks to the current energy war and the reduced planting due to lack of fertilizer. If the scenario plays out....summer of 2027 will be very problematic.

 

[ewq1938]

No He didn't.

Yes he did.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

[ewq1938]

Saying "these are the two olive trees" doesn't say they are "two churches." I

The two candlesticks are churches not the olive trees.

 

[ewq1938]

Christ could arrive and rapture the church at any time.

That's false. Paul said two events have to happen first and neither has happened yet.

 

[KUWN]

Yes he did.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Some theologians take the days shortened to be the 7 year Tribulation itself, as if the Tribulation could have gone on for 10 years or more. I think this makes the most sense of the shortened days. I don't think he is saying that the 24 hour day will only run for 20 hours.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes he did.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

You mean like shortened to 22 hours long instead of 24 hours long?

 

[ewq1938]

You mean like shortened to 22 hours long instead of 24 hours long?

No, it means less days than originally planned. In Rev it is 1260 days/42 months so previously it would have been longer like twice as long.

 

[Dryhn]

That's false. Paul said two events have to happen first and neither has happened yet.

A few days I would have not agreed with you, but now do

Time 38:50 onwards

 

[quietthinker]

Can we know the day and hour of Jesus' return?

The bible says...Matt 24:36
“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

I guess that settles it. Right? For many it does.

BUT

We know the tribulation will be for 7 years...or...2,520 days using a 360 day lunar cycle year or 2,555 days using our 365 day calendar.

We also know the tribulation starts when the anti-Christ incorporates the "peace contract"....So why can't we add 2,520 days or 2,555 days from the moment the peace contract is signed? At that point it's pretty much a 50/50 guess as we don't know what number to use.
But, the bible says the peace contract will be broken after 3 1/2 years. That is 1,277 days or 1,260 days after the contract is signed.
Once the antiChrist declares himself to be God on day 1,277 or day 1,260.....all we have to do is add either 1,277 or 1,260 days to which number turned out to be correct.....and show Matt 24:36 has some problems as the day can be predicted.

BUT. Matt 24:36 can't be predicted...

Knowing Jesus return is imminent....I would suggest of that date no one knows when Jesus will return. This would be the date of the pre-tribulation rapture.

One way we can know the return of Jesus...(the first return)...is pre-tribulation is the mention of what the world will look like when Jesus returns. We know this return isn't speaking about the end of the tribulation because after going through the 7 year tribulation the world will not be rainbows, puppy dogs, butterflies and daisies. People will not be eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, buying and selling, planting and building.
Jesus says the world will look like the days of Noah and Lot when He returns. Those day fit the pre-tribulation description rather than an end of the tribulation world view and economy.

It's amazing just how many people fight against the theology of the pre-tribulation rapture of the church.

One thing about the pre-tribulation rapture is the signs say it's soon....sooner than you think.

I think you need to revisit your interpretations of the prophecies because your conclusions re the tribulation and Mathew 24 are both inaccurate.
And yes, your inaccuracies have even brought you around to questioning Jesus’ definitive words on the matter of his return.

 

[ewq1938]

A few days I would have not agreed with you, but now do

Time 38:50 onwards

So you believed Pretrib 3 days ago but you have changed to Posttrib? Good to hear...

 

[Dryhn]

So you believed Pretrib 3 days ago but you have changed to Posttrib? Good to hear...

No, watch the 5 or so mins from 38:50 to understand why :)

 

[ewq1938]

No, watch the 5 or so mins from 38:50 to understand why :)

I did. He teaches Posttrib.

 

[Dryhn]

I did. He teaches Posttrib.

Wrong

 

[ewq1938]

Wrong

I watched for 5 min and he seems to say the rapture happens at the second coming and he points to that on the white board, and that board shows the Mill happening right after the Coming so that is Posttrib. I don't see any rapture before a trib on the board.