Deception Is the Main Battleground For the END

[ScottA]

That above of course is a slander attempt without substance, right off the bat, to make sure those who read your post are 'aligned' properly with your twisted ideas.




The Genesis 26 reference is about one of the blessings God gave to Abraham regarding the Promise by Faith. It is simple, and is that God promised Abraham's seed would LITERALLY be as many of the sands of the sea, and stars of the sky. There is NOTHING said in that Genesis 26 verse relating to the stars falling like you ADDED to that Genesis Scripture!



The idea of "winter" given by Christ in His Olivet discourse is symbolic, just like 'summer' also is that He also gave in His Olivet discourse. But you are TAKING AWAY from the written Scripture by trying to re-define Christ's use of 'winter' in relation to the REAL HORTICULTURE of the middle east WINTER FIG that falls off in SPRING.

Rev 6:13
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
KJV


Shtawi: This is a variety grown in Koura, Lebanon. Shtawi comes from the word Shitaa’ in Arabic which means winter. It ripens very late, usually in November into Christmas. That's what "untimely figs" is about, an early fig in contrast to the sweetest fig harvested in the summer.

The Spirit does not ADD or TAKE AWAY, but leads unto "all truth", as it is written. This is the promise and provision given to us by Christ...which only comes by the means He also gave. Which is not to study the scriptures and and believe according to our own understanding--but what comes from the Father to those of His choosing to reveal it...as He demonstrated with Peter regarding how he came to know who Jesus was. This is what is written, and how He builds His Church.

The analogy as you have explained it--is not wrong--it's just not "all." And I understand that it has been 2,000 years, and left with the scriptures this form of study and testing to understand what is true, is the common practice. But look around--there are thousands of wrong and false doctrines, and they all came about not unlike the way you also came to believe what is true. History repeats--that is also how the Priests and Pharisees got much of what they believed wrong. Still...the promise is good, and the method is not new but established. But all that a thousand people imagine differently--thinking that the Spirit has lead them--is proven wrong, in that they are common and yet differing. Christendom, just as Israel before us--has failed God's own test. So what then--He has stopped being God and active to fulfill everything in its time? No, but it comes--just as before--as least expected.

That is why I said, "if you can receive it." So, what's it going to be--you sticking to your own understanding with a death grip--or taking a breath, and looking past the predictable patterned response commonly believed that is proved wrong by the many differences, and allowing for the One?

Only One is true.

 

[ScottA]

Trusting Jesus' written Word is to trust Jesus.

What 'some' claim... is from The Holy Spirit when going against what is written is not trusting in Jesus.

His Word was written down by holy men of God as they were moved by The Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20).

And this is the crux of the problem.

What you have stated is not unlike the defense of Israel who trusted in the Law (like you trust in the scriptures) by the letter. The words therefore being spirit, are not a test of what is true, but are a test of the one who reads them. Hence the many different interpretations and beliefs about what is written. That alone ought to show you that the words at face value--even to the learned--are not enough.

It is not the [written] words only "...not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

 

[Davy]

The Spirit does not ADD or TAKE AWAY, but leads unto "all truth", as it is written.

The believer must heed... and listen... to The Holy Spirit first. We don't all do that, and those us that do try to, we sometimes fail in heeding because of our fleshy members pulling on us to sin.

This is the promise and provision given to us by Christ...which only comes by the means He also gave. Which is not to study the scriptures and and believe according to our own understanding--but what comes from the Father to those of His choosing to reveal it...as He demonstrated with Peter regarding how he came to know who Jesus was. This is what is written, and how He builds His Church.

The analogy as you have explained it--is not wrong--it's just not "all." And I understand that it has been 2,000 years, and left with the scriptures this form of study and testing to understand what is true, is the common practice.

That kind of thinking is from men's doctrines, not from The Holy Spirit. Ideas like "common practice" is from men, not God. It assumes what has been held that is popular aligns with God's Truth in His Word, when often times it does... not.

I didn't dream up Christ's 'summer' harvest analogy. It is written. Jesus is Who gave it in His parable of a fig tree. Now to claim understanding His parables is just a "common practice", like a tradition of men, and not part of God's teaching tools, is to slander God's Word Who gave the parables.

If you are afraid to try and understand those parables Lord Jesus gave in His Word, maybe it is because He did not mean for 'you'... to understand them, but for others He did give them to understand, like He said to His Apostles in Matthew 13 that blessed were their spiritual ears and eyes, because it was given to them to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, but to the multitudes, IT WAS NOT GIVEN. Possibly you are in that 'multitudes' category Jesus said that understanding is not given to, so you want to try and attack those to whom it is... given?

If I were you, I'd get busy in greater study of His Word to find out why... He has not given you to understand His parables. If you are heeding men's doctrines more than His Word, then that's likely your first major problem, i.e. who you are listening to.

 

[Davy]

And this is the crux of the problem.

What you have stated is not unlike the defense of Israel who trusted in the Law (like you trust in the scriptures) by the letter.

You mean you actually think that since the Old Testament prophets and Christ's Apostles were born Israelites, that means they trusted in the law more than what God through The Holy Spirit gave them to write down for ALL... of God's people, including Christ's Church?

Did you matriculate from a church system that does not teach the Old Testament prophets? FYI, The New Testament quotes something like 200+ direct quotes in The New Testament from the Old Testament prophets, and something over 4,000 references back to the Old Testament.

The words therefore being spirit, are not a test of what is true, but are a test of the one who reads them.

What The Holy Spirit says is Truth. What you are talking about is the idea of 'religion', which is a working by men. Christianity is not a religion, it is The Truth. And believing what God says through The Holy Spirit is to put Faith and Trust in God, and not in man, nor in this world. So the ONLY test involved in that is whether or not 'we' heed what God says in His written Word as given by The Holy Spirit through His chosen elect.

Hence the many different interpretations and beliefs about what is written. That alone ought to show you that the words at face value--even to the learned--are not enough.

That sounds like Catholic dogma which does not treat the written Word of God as 'sola scriptura' (God's written Word as The Authority alone). That's why the RCC has so many false traditions in it that does not align with Bible Scripture, even the worship of Jesus' mother Mary.

It is not the [written] words only "...not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

You are terribly in error. The 'written' Word of God is divinely inspired (the original writings), and given via The Holy Spirit. So God's written Word is... The Holy Spirit speaking. But you show that you desire to SEPARATE the two! And that is gross error!

 

[Davy]

Now then brethren in Christ Jesus, that DO LISTEN to GOD in His 'written' Word given by The Holy Spirit; try to understand the parables our Lord Jesus gave in His Word, and how His Apostles also used them in His 'written' Word.

Jesus didn't give those parables as some fancy, He gave them because by use of allegory or analogy, more information can be given by an idea in a short number of descriptive words. This is why Lord Jesus used the subject of agriculture a lot in His parables, because everyone understood about planting and sowing and reaping harvest, and the times and seasons involved.

The idea of the "untimely figs" in Revelation 6:13 is one of those agriculture subjects Jesus used to point to the stars of heaven falling on the 6th Seal. Even in the last verse of Revelation 1 Jesus defined the seven "stars" there representing the seven angels over the seven Churches in Asia, which is about a pattern in the heavenly linked with the earthly pattern for the seven Churches. This idea of patterns in the heavenly representing events on this earth was also shown in the Daniel 10 Chapter.

Here is a very important parable Lord Jesus gave us about the end time events leading up to His future coming. If you don't understand it, put it on a shelf for the time being, and keep studying God's Word and keep it in the back of your mind. Once you just know about it, you will see the idea keeps popping up in Bible Scripture different ways. Such is a teaching tool used by our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

In this parable, Jesus quotes from the Old Testament prophet Isaiah about "Blessed are the barren...". Some Jewish women on the sidelines on His way up to be crucified wept for Him. And He quoted from Isaiah 54 to them about "Blessed are the barren..."...

Luke 23:27-30
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us.'"
KJV

The above underlined in 'red' is what those "Daughters of Jerusalem" will say on that future day. What 'day' do you think Lord Jesus was point to there? When you understand the analogy or parable He gave there from Isaiah 54, then you should understand what 'day' He was pointing to above when those "Daughters of Jerusalem" will say that, "Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare...", and also wish for the mountains to, "Fall on us", and to the hills, "Cover us", which are expressions of shame.

By the way, Apostle Paul also used this 'barren' womb analogy in his warning of 2 Corinthians 11 where he desired to present us to our True Husband Jesus Christ as "a chaste virgin".

Isa 54:1-14
54 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

Read the above very slowly, and very carefully. God is saying those women who did NOT travail with child, i.e., whose wombs remain 'barren', will have MORE children than the married wife. In the real world involving marriage and children, we know that does not make sense, EXCEPT... when speaking of a harlot that has many children out of wedlock.

That is meant in the SPIRITUAL WORSHIP SENSE, like how Apostle Paul used it saying he wants to present us to Christ as "a chaste virgin". It's a spiritual analogy to the idea of being betrothed to Christ Jesus, our True Husband, and we are to WAIT for Him to come. He is The Bridegroom that the ten virgins are waiting for that appears at MIDNIGHT when all ten virgins have fallen asleep at the 11th hour before midnight (Matthew 25).

Below is how... the barren woman will have MORE children than the married wife...

2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

Israel is to inherit the believing Gentiles when Lord Jesus returns. Forget all the men's doctrine stuff about Christ's Church being separate from Israel at Christ's future coming. Lord Jesus will be King of Israel, not King of the Church. We Gentiles are going to live in the holy land with the believing Israelites, with Lord Jesus Christ as our KING and LORD there, ON EARTH. That is where those "desolate cities to be inhabited" will exist, in the middle east holy lands.

4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

While Lord Jesus has been away, and we await His future return, we, His chaste virgins, have been in like a 'widowhood' status. This widowhood idea especially is applied to Jerusalem in the Book of Lamentations, and in Revelation 18 with what the harlot says about herself, that she sits a queen, and is no widow (meaning she is married, but to whom?).

5 For thy Maker is thine Husband; the LORD of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.

There is where Apostle Paul got the idea of Jesus Christ being our True Husband per 2 Corinthians 11.

6 'For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
8 In a little wrath I hid My face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee', saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto Me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but My kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of My peace be removed, saith the LORD That hath mercy on thee.

God is pointing not just to His children, but also to Jerusalem on earth where the New Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven to. That in red reveals the 'timing' of this future event. Those events are given along with the "day of the Lord", the day of Christ's future return to gather His Church and begin His reign in Jerusalem, on earth with His elect priests and kings.


11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.
12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.

That above is also mentioned in the Revelation 21 Scripture about the future New Jerusalem.

13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
KJV

(Continued...)

 

[Dryhn]

Now then brethren in Christ Jesus, that DO LISTEN to GOD in His 'written' Word given by The Holy Spirit; try to understand the parables our Lord Jesus gave in His Word, and how His Apostles also used them in His 'written' Word.

Jesus didn't give those parables as some fancy, He gave them because by use of allegory or analogy, more information can be given by an idea in a short number of descriptive words. This is why Lord Jesus used the subject of agriculture a lot in His parables, because everyone understood about planting and sowing and reaping harvest, and the times and seasons involved.

The idea of the "untimely figs" in Revelation 6:13 is one of those agriculture subjects Jesus used to point to the stars of heaven falling on the 6th Seal. Even in the last verse of Revelation 1 Jesus defined the seven "stars" there representing the seven angels over the seven Churches in Asia, which is about a pattern in the heavenly linked with the earthly pattern for the seven Churches. This idea of patterns in the heavenly representing events on this earth was also shown in the Daniel 10 Chapter.

Here is a very important parable Lord Jesus gave us about the end time events leading up to His future coming. If you don't understand it, put it on a shelf for the time being, and keep studying God's Word and keep it in the back of your mind. Once you just know about it, you will see the idea keeps popping up in Bible Scripture different ways. Such is a teaching tool used by our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

In this parable, Jesus quotes from the Old Testament prophet Isaiah about "Blessed are the barren...". Some Jewish women on the sidelines on His way up to be crucified wept for Him. And He quoted from Isaiah 54 to them about "Blessed are the barren..."...

Luke 23:27-30
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us.'"
KJV

The above underlined in 'red' is what those "Daughters of Jerusalem" will say on that future day. What 'day' do you think Lord Jesus was point to there? When you understand the analogy or parable He gave there from Isaiah 54, then you should understand what 'day' He was pointing to above when those "Daughters of Jerusalem" will say that, "Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare...", and also wish for the mountains to, "Fall on us", and to the hills, "Cover us", which are expressions of shame.

By the way, Apostle Paul also used this 'barren' womb analogy in his warning of 2 Corinthians 11 where he desired to present us to our True Husband Jesus Christ as "a chaste virgin".

Isa 54:1-14
54 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

Read the above very slowly, and very carefully. God is saying those women who did NOT travail with child, i.e., whose wombs remain 'barren', will have MORE children than the married wife. In the real world involving marriage and children, we know that does not make sense, EXCEPT... when speaking of a harlot that has many children out of wedlock.

That is meant in the SPIRITUAL WORSHIP SENSE, like how Apostle Paul used it saying he wants to present us to Christ as "a chaste virgin". It's a spiritual analogy to the idea of being betrothed to Christ Jesus, our True Husband, and we are to WAIT for Him to come. He is The Bridegroom that the ten virgins are waiting for that appears at MIDNIGHT when all ten virgins have fallen asleep at the 11th hour before midnight (Matthew 25).

Below is how... the barren woman will have MORE children than the married wife...

2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

Israel is to inherit the believing Gentiles when Lord Jesus returns. Forget all the men's doctrine stuff about Christ's Church being separate from Israel at Christ's future coming. Lord Jesus will be King of Israel, not King of the Church. We Gentiles are going to live in the holy land with the believing Israelites, with Lord Jesus Christ as our KING and LORD there, ON EARTH. That is where those "desolate cities to be inhabited" will exist, in the middle east holy lands.

4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

While Lord Jesus has been away, and we await His future return, we, His chaste virgins, have been in like a 'widowhood' status. This widowhood idea especially is applied to Jerusalem in the Book of Lamentations, and in Revelation 18 with what the harlot says about herself, that she sits a queen, and is no widow (meaning she is married, but to whom?).

5 For thy Maker is thine Husband; the LORD of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.

There is where Apostle Paul got the idea of Jesus Christ being our True Husband per 2 Corinthians 11.

6 'For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
8 In a little wrath I hid My face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee', saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto Me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but My kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of My peace be removed, saith the LORD That hath mercy on thee.

God is pointing not just to His children, but also to Jerusalem on earth where the New Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven to. That in red reveals the 'timing' of this future event. Those events are given along with the "day of the Lord", the day of Christ's future return to gather His Church and begin His reign in Jerusalem, on earth with His elect priests and kings.


11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.
12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.

That above is also mentioned in the Revelation 21 Scripture about the future New Jerusalem.

13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
KJV

(Continued...)

The WHOLE Bible is for us to know & learn from :)
Specifically though which verses CLEARLY teach what is required of DAVY to enter Heaven ?

 

[Davy]

(Continued...)

Hopefully, you now understand what the Luke 23 "Daughters of Jerusalem" mean when they will one day say that, "Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck."

That reveals the "Daughters of Jerusalem" will be deceived, which is why Lord Jesus told them to not weep for Him, but for themselves, and... their children.

The "Daughters of Jerusalem" will be deceived how?

They will represent the unbelieving Jews of Israel that will be found with their wombs NOT symbolically barren, but instead 'travailing with child' by another, not our Lord Jesus Christ Who is coming to gather CHASTE VIRGINS waiting on Him, this all being in the spiritual worship sense of course.

The analogy Jesus uses is thus simple. It's about a Husband we (the Church) who is betrothed to Him, is supposed to be waiting for The Bridegroom, and their symbolic womb is barren without child, like a chaste virgin. They are thus blessed for waiting, as they never bare in false worship.

But those who do not... wait, and The Bridegroom discovers their symbolic wombs are NOT spiritually barren, but they instead 'travail with child', it means they played the HARLOT against their betrothed Husband. It means THEY DID NOT WAIT for The Bridegroom. That's the analogy Jesus is giving.

When this parable is applied to the coming false-Messiah to Jerusalem, which comes first PRIOR to Lord Jesus' future coming, it reveals Jesus' command to WAIT FOR HIM, and NOT fall away to worship that first proclaimed Messiah that is to appear first in Jerusalem at the end of this world for the tribulation. This parable serves like an ANCHOR of warning to the Church to NOT be deceived by that first Messiah that shows up working great signs and wonders to fool the whole world.

 

[Davy]

Here is a Scripture where Lord Jesus was pointing to that "Blessed are the barren..." parable about spiritual worship in Isaiah 54 and Luke 23...

Luke 21:20-23
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Many make a mistake interpreting what that "desolation" above is about. Most think it is about the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem and the 2nd temple by the Roman army. This next verse though reveals it is about the 'end', the last day of this world getting ready to occur, which involves this below "days of vengeance" God spoke of in the Isaiah 61:2 verse (which Lord Jesus at the start of His Ministry in Luke 4 closed the Book before reading it, because its time is set for the last day of this world with His future coming.)

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
KJV

In those "days of vengeance", God recompenses the wicked on earth. His cup of WRATH is poured out upon the earth with His final 7th Vial of Revelation 16, on that "day of the Lord".

How could Lord Jesus then be speaking of a woman that has a child to protect on that 'day' from that WRATH on that "days of vengeance" by GOD? His cup of wrath is meant upon the wicked, NOT UPON AN INNOCENT CHILD!

Lord Jesus is actually referring back to His parable about "Blessed are the barren...", which is about spiritual worship at the end of this world. One will either be found as a HARLOT 'with child' (spiritually) in false worship at His coming, or they will be found as "a chaste virgin" with their symbolic wombs barren, waiting on Lord Jesus to come.

This means that DECEPTION to a false-Messiah (The Antichrist), is a MAJOR WARNING that Lord Jesus gave His Church about the end in the days of His future coming.

 

[ScottA]

The believer must heed... and listen... to The Holy Spirit first. We don't all do that, and those us that do try to, we sometimes fail in heeding because of our fleshy members pulling on us to sin.



That kind of thinking is from men's doctrines, not from The Holy Spirit. Ideas like "common practice" is from men, not God. It assumes what has been held that is popular aligns with God's Truth in His Word, when often times it does... not.

I didn't dream up Christ's 'summer' harvest analogy. It is written. Jesus is Who gave it in His parable of a fig tree. Now to claim understanding His parables is just a "common practice", like a tradition of men, and not part of God's teaching tools, is to slander God's Word Who gave the parables.

If you are afraid to try and understand those parables Lord Jesus gave in His Word, maybe it is because He did not mean for 'you'... to understand them, but for others He did give them to understand, like He said to His Apostles in Matthew 13 that blessed were their spiritual ears and eyes, because it was given to them to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, but to the multitudes, IT WAS NOT GIVEN. Possibly you are in that 'multitudes' category Jesus said that understanding is not given to, so you want to try and attack those to whom it is... given?

If I were you, I'd get busy in greater study of His Word to find out why... He has not given you to understand His parables. If you are heeding men's doctrines more than His Word, then that's likely your first major problem, i.e. who you are listening to.

That is not what I said...in fact you totally didn't comprehend the point at all, but wrongly applied what I said about people like you for 2,000 years making a Law and a god by their literary meaning, and accused me of slandering God for saying that about the parable of the fig tree--which I didn't say at all.

Your comprehension is not enough to have this conversation. Never mind.

 

[ScottA]

You mean you actually think that since the Old Testament prophets and Christ's Apostles were born Israelites, that means they trusted in the law more than what God through The Holy Spirit gave them to write down for ALL... of God's people, including Christ's Church?

Did you matriculate from a church system that does not teach the Old Testament prophets? FYI, The New Testament quotes something like 200+ direct quotes in The New Testament from the Old Testament prophets, and something over 4,000 references back to the Old Testament.




What The Holy Spirit says is Truth. What you are talking about is the idea of 'religion', which is a working by men. Christianity is not a religion, it is The Truth. And believing what God says through The Holy Spirit is to put Faith and Trust in God, and not in man, nor in this world. So the ONLY test involved in that is whether or not 'we' heed what God says in His written Word as given by The Holy Spirit through His chosen elect.



That sounds like Catholic dogma which does not treat the written Word of God as 'sola scriptura' (God's written Word as The Authority alone). That's why the RCC has so many false traditions in it that does not align with Bible Scripture, even the worship of Jesus' mother Mary.



You are terribly in error. The 'written' Word of God is divinely inspired (the original writings), and given via The Holy Spirit. So God's written Word is... The Holy Spirit speaking. But you show that you desire to SEPARATE the two! And that is gross error!

You error, and do not understand what I even said, then you accuse me. That's called projection. Jesus called it hypocrisy.

So be it. You have your reward.

 

[brightmorningstar]

The Holy Spirit teaches us all things and reminds us of all Jesus said. John 14
Therefore we cant 'interpret' what Jesus said contrary to what He said.

A big problem with churches is they fall out over disputable matters and accomodate outright lies.

 

[ScottA]

Now then brethren in Christ Jesus, that DO LISTEN to GOD in His 'written' Word given by The Holy Spirit; try to understand the parables our Lord Jesus gave in His Word, and how His Apostles also used them in His 'written' Word.

Jesus didn't give those parables as some fancy, He gave them because by use of allegory or analogy, more information can be given by an idea in a short number of descriptive words. This is why Lord Jesus used the subject of agriculture a lot in His parables, because everyone understood about planting and sowing and reaping harvest, and the times and seasons involved.

The idea of the "untimely figs" in Revelation 6:13 is one of those agriculture subjects Jesus used to point to the stars of heaven falling on the 6th Seal. Even in the last verse of Revelation 1 Jesus defined the seven "stars" there representing the seven angels over the seven Churches in Asia, which is about a pattern in the heavenly linked with the earthly pattern for the seven Churches. This idea of patterns in the heavenly representing events on this earth was also shown in the Daniel 10 Chapter.

Here is a very important parable Lord Jesus gave us about the end time events leading up to His future coming. If you don't understand it, put it on a shelf for the time being, and keep studying God's Word and keep it in the back of your mind. Once you just know about it, you will see the idea keeps popping up in Bible Scripture different ways. Such is a teaching tool used by our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

In this parable, Jesus quotes from the Old Testament prophet Isaiah about "Blessed are the barren...". Some Jewish women on the sidelines on His way up to be crucified wept for Him. And He quoted from Isaiah 54 to them about "Blessed are the barren..."...

Luke 23:27-30
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us.'"
KJV

The above underlined in 'red' is what those "Daughters of Jerusalem" will say on that future day. What 'day' do you think Lord Jesus was point to there? When you understand the analogy or parable He gave there from Isaiah 54, then you should understand what 'day' He was pointing to above when those "Daughters of Jerusalem" will say that, "Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare...", and also wish for the mountains to, "Fall on us", and to the hills, "Cover us", which are expressions of shame.

By the way, Apostle Paul also used this 'barren' womb analogy in his warning of 2 Corinthians 11 where he desired to present us to our True Husband Jesus Christ as "a chaste virgin".

Isa 54:1-14
54 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

Read the above very slowly, and very carefully. God is saying those women who did NOT travail with child, i.e., whose wombs remain 'barren', will have MORE children than the married wife. In the real world involving marriage and children, we know that does not make sense, EXCEPT... when speaking of a harlot that has many children out of wedlock.

That is meant in the SPIRITUAL WORSHIP SENSE, like how Apostle Paul used it saying he wants to present us to Christ as "a chaste virgin". It's a spiritual analogy to the idea of being betrothed to Christ Jesus, our True Husband, and we are to WAIT for Him to come. He is The Bridegroom that the ten virgins are waiting for that appears at MIDNIGHT when all ten virgins have fallen asleep at the 11th hour before midnight (Matthew 25).

Below is how... the barren woman will have MORE children than the married wife...

2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

Israel is to inherit the believing Gentiles when Lord Jesus returns. Forget all the men's doctrine stuff about Christ's Church being separate from Israel at Christ's future coming. Lord Jesus will be King of Israel, not King of the Church. We Gentiles are going to live in the holy land with the believing Israelites, with Lord Jesus Christ as our KING and LORD there, ON EARTH. That is where those "desolate cities to be inhabited" will exist, in the middle east holy lands.

4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

While Lord Jesus has been away, and we await His future return, we, His chaste virgins, have been in like a 'widowhood' status. This widowhood idea especially is applied to Jerusalem in the Book of Lamentations, and in Revelation 18 with what the harlot says about herself, that she sits a queen, and is no widow (meaning she is married, but to whom?).

5 For thy Maker is thine Husband; the LORD of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.

There is where Apostle Paul got the idea of Jesus Christ being our True Husband per 2 Corinthians 11.

6 'For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
8 In a little wrath I hid My face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee', saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto Me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but My kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of My peace be removed, saith the LORD That hath mercy on thee.

God is pointing not just to His children, but also to Jerusalem on earth where the New Jerusalem will come down out of Heaven to. That in red reveals the 'timing' of this future event. Those events are given along with the "day of the Lord", the day of Christ's future return to gather His Church and begin His reign in Jerusalem, on earth with His elect priests and kings.


11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.
12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.

That above is also mentioned in the Revelation 21 Scripture about the future New Jerusalem.

13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
14 In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
KJV

(Continued...)

There is a huge difference between the allegoric meaning of parables and the spiritual meaning. Many who idealize the apostles forget that Jesus had to explain many of those "simple" parables--because understanding them by their cultural, agricultural, or natural likeness--was not enough.

And here you want to make a doctrine using those natural terms.

That is so fundamentally wrong, it's painful to watch. It's going back to that time before the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. While as early as the first century people with actual understanding--like Paul, and the apostles after receiving the Holy Spirit--2,000 years ago were already moving on to "leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation..."

But here you are going back to the elementary meaning of parables--well, welcome to Sunday School!

 

[ScottA]

The Holy Spirit teaches us all things and reminds us of all Jesus said. John 14
Therefore we cant 'interpret' what Jesus said contrary to what He said.

That is a great misrepresentation of what is actually true...and written.

Receiving the Holy Spirit is not a onetime dump of "all truth" to all people. That is not how it words, nor is it how it is written. What is actually written, is we are "lead", and "precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.” And don't think that all changed--because God changes not (Malachi 3:6). And that "line upon line" revealing comes by "He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers"--each of which are only given part.

So...no, everyone who has received the Holy Spirit is not capable of interpreting "what Jesus said"...and certainly not all that is written.

 

[Taken]

Deception Is the Main Battleground For the END.​

I would say the BATTLE has always been…

Two Contenders:
EVIL power vs GOOD power

for:
A man’s SOUL:

in the End:
EACH Contender:
shall possess as they desired;

(1) All shall BELIEVE in God.
(God Promise)

(2) Gods Righteous Shall Be Alive With Him Forever.
(Gods Promise)

(3) Gods Unrighteous Shall Be Alive Without God For 1,000 years.
(Gods Grace)

4) Gods Unrighteous Shall Be Permanently Relieved of their Miserable Life Forever.
(Gods Grace)

5) Evil Demons Shall Live Forever Without God.
(Gods Promise)


Agree…
The Battle-Ground…is in Effect…Dividing…the Prizes (souls)…
Through the Means of:
DECEPTIONS and TRUTHS.

TRUTHS shall be Victorious Forever.
DECEPTIONS shall be Defeated Forever.

Glory to God;
Almighty, Faithful, True, Graceful.

Taken

 

[amigo de christo]

Deception Is the Main Battleground For the END.​

I would say the BATTLE has always been…

Two Contenders:
EVIL power vs GOOD power

for:
A man’s SOUL:

in the End:
EACH Contender:
shall possess as they desired;

(1) All shall BELIEVE in God.
(God Promise)

(2) Gods Righteous Shall Be Alive With Him Forever.
(Gods Promise)

(3) Gods Unrighteous Shall Be Alive Without God For 1,000 years.
(Gods Grace)

4) Gods Unrighteous Shall Be Permanently Relieved of their Miserable Life Forever.
(Gods Grace)

5) Evil Demons Shall Live Forever Without God.
(Gods Promise)


Agree…
The Battle-Ground…is in Effect…Dividing…the Prizes (souls)…
Through the Means of:
DECEPTIONS and TRUTHS.

TRUTHS shall be Victorious Forever.
DECEPTIONS shall be Defeated Forever.

Glory to God;
Almighty, Faithful, True, Graceful.

Taken

The wicked who rejected The Christ of God shall indeed be destroyed and perish in the lake of fire called the second death .
So i advise us all to Point only to CHRIST JESUS , his words , his gospel which all apostles did teach .
He who hears and beleives shall be saved but unto he who rejects he shall be damned .

 

[amigo de christo]

The Holy Spirit teaches us all things and reminds us of all Jesus said. John 14
Therefore we cant 'interpret' what Jesus said contrary to what He said.

A big problem with churches is they fall out over disputable matters and accomodate outright lies.

Many do accomodate lies . The simple answer and solution is
that we do get into the bible and see for ourselves all things JESUS and later the apostels taught .
Do not do this through the lens of acroynms or any other denominational precept of men .
IF we would simply read the bible then things will become clearer and clearer .
And we have to stop listening to those who say that one cannot learn the bible unless
they sit under their greek or etc .
They made the bible very complicated and hard to understand because they often twisted parts
to fit the teachings of men .
We cannot be led by emotions but must be led by the TRUTH .
What we NEED to know we will know . And though we shall only know in part
we will know what we NEEDED too know .
Its not nearly as complicated as man has made it my friend .
Many cliam to believe on JESUS within the christain circle
but have no idea the jesus they are t aught is contrary in areas to the biblical one .
The best way to do this , we open the bible , continue in prayer , continuing reading it .
Watch and see how clear things will get for the one who does this .

 

[amigo de christo]

There is a huge difference between the allegoric meaning of parables and the spiritual meaning. Many who idealize the apostles forget that Jesus had to explain many of those "simple" parables--because understanding them by their cultural, agricultural, or natural likeness--was not enough.

And here you want to make a doctrine using those natural terms.

That is so fundamentally wrong, it's painful to watch. It's going back to that time before the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. While as early as the first century people with actual understanding--like Paul, and the apostles after receiving the Holy Spirit--2,000 years ago were already moving on to "leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation..."

But here you are going back to the elementary meaning of parables--well, welcome to Sunday School!

Scott the bible is not nearly as complicated as you are making it seem .
You seem to have forgotten something scott .
ITS TRUE JESUS expounded unto them often in parables when HE would speak openly to them .
Also in quite a few of his parables we see him expounding them to his own.
When JESUS spoke to them HE told them of the Gift of the SPIRIT that would later come upon them
AFTER he was risen . To guide and lead them into TRUTH .
allegorical verses spiritual . come now scott that is confusion .
And what on earth is this many who idealize the apostels stuff .
The simple reason why things already written are twisted is , due to men desire
an interpreatation that fits what pleases their own lustful hearts and desires .
The bible is not nearly as complicated as folks have made it .
The more time one spends in prayer , in reading it with joy and to learn , the far better off they would have been .
ITS MEN who twist things scott . Though of course not all do twist it . But many do .
The key is folks have got to stop trusting in men . stop trusting in mighty wise scholars
and etc who made it seem as if one could not learn the scrips without their influence , of greek or whatever else they use .

 

[amigo de christo]

The WHOLE Bible is for us to know & learn from :)
Specifically though which verses CLEARLY teach what is required of DAVY to enter Heaven ?

Yes indeed the whole bible is for us to know and learn from .
And many can no longer afford to heed men that have made it complicated
by means of how they twisted the scrips to fit precepts of men .
And have done so under the guise they cliam that one cannot learn the scrips for themselves
lest they sit under .................them , their scholars , their men , their greek , their etc .
We must get back into the scriptures for our selves .
And folks have got to stop picking and choosing what scrips to believe and which ones to twist .
BELIEVE ALL that is written . Even if is not clearly understood , specially at the first
just beleive as does a child what is already written .
The more one stays in the scriptures , remains in prayer , being not only hearers but doers of the Word ,
the far better off they had been . What man has made confusing
GOD can clear it up . but not for t hose whose hope and trust was in men .
Our hope and trust MUST BE IN GOD , THUS IN HIS CHRIST and in THE TRUTH .

 

[Taken]

Scott the bible is not nearly as complicated as you are making it seem .

Disagree.

@ScottA was not complicating scripture…
Rather he was “speaking of the Term”…
PARABLE… and the Difference it MATTERS…
Of “WHO is Speaking”.

If a person is speaking a PARABLE… a made up name / situation is Acceptable to make a truthful point.

If Jesus is speaking, it matters not what His manner of speech is called…
Every word He speaks IS True.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

Scott the bible is not nearly as complicated as you are making it seem .
You seem to have forgotten something scott .
ITS TRUE JESUS expounded unto them often in parables when HE would speak openly to them .
Also in quite a few of his parables we see him expounding them to his own.
When JESUS spoke to them HE told them of the Gift of the SPIRIT that would later come upon them
AFTER he was risen . To guide and lead them into TRUTH .
allegorical verses spiritual . come now scott that is confusion .
And what on earth is this many who idealize the apostels stuff .
The simple reason why things already written are twisted is , due to men desire
an interpreatation that fits what pleases their own lustful hearts and desires .
The bible is not nearly as complicated as folks have made it .
The more time one spends in prayer , in reading it with joy and to learn , the far better off they would have been .
ITS MEN who twist things scott . Though of course not all do twist it . But many do .
The key is folks have got to stop trusting in men . stop trusting in mighty wise scholars
and etc who made it seem as if one could not learn the scrips without their influence , of greek or whatever else they use .

It appears that you missed the fact that I gave Paul's explanation, not my own.

Yes, there is an elementary meaning to the parables and most of scripture--but you would have to leave the Spirit and the fact that the words are spirit out--to stop there. Jesus didn't stop there...and they are His words.

As for confusion, seeing the Word of God as only allegory--that is confusion, for it only accounts for the natural and not the spiritual. To the contrary, it is the Spirit that is Truth, and the natural merely a likeness if at all. What do the scriptures say? Man in his elementary worldly state "is natural", and "let God be true but every man a liar." Therein lies the confusion.

As for idealizing the apostles--see, I have offended you--therefore my point is shown to be true! The point is--even the greatest of men did not know many things from the Word of God without explanation, and much of the explanation was not natural or elementary, but "higher" as God is higher. Did any of us read the Bible, and when finished put it down saying, "Ah ha, now I have complete understanding!?"

Granted, the Bible does not have to be as complicated as people make it out to be--just look at all the formulas and charts and hair-brain theories! But that is not what I have been doing--but just the opposite--I have been speaking of them in a simple plain way of connecting what men have not connected, and dividing what men have not divided--which is the bridge to "all truth" which was to come and has come. But because of the old ways of many, many find the simple truth confusing. Go figure.

But don't throw all men out with the untrustworthy (I know you did not, but many do). For God "Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers."

@Davy