The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[Spiritual Israelite]

No such mention of the "seventh" trump.

You need to remember that the book of Revelation was written many years AFTER 1 THess. Paul and the Thessalonians had no idea about a seventh trump; the book of Revelation is 30 years later.

Did the Holy Spirit who inspired both Paul and John to write scripture have an idea about a seventh trumpet when He inspired Paul to write about the last trumpet? Yes, He did. So, your argument doesn't hold water.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you think that, then who is the firstfruits of 1 thes 4?
In your model, it is 144,000 men and not Jesus.

You really need to take a look at WHAT JESUS IS AS FIRSTFRUITS.

Your model is so messed up by not knowing what Jesus is as firstfruits.

Spoiler alert.
He is firstfruits of the resurrection.

You got out a bible blender and tried to erase the truth of Rev 14.

Rev 14 has been worn out by postribber modifications and flat out bizarre changes.

BTW, Rev 14 DEMANDS ALL POSTRIBBERS also adhere to RT.

SEE where false doctrine and re engineering truth leads to??????
SMH

Jesus being the firstfruits means that His resurrection unto bodily immortality was the first. Paul said the next in order are those who belong to Christ at His second coming (1 Corinthians 15:22-23). But, you have other believers being resurrected at anothe time as well, which Paul said nothing about. I agree with Paul that the only ones who will be resurrected unto bodily immortality are Christ Himself (the firstfruits), which happened long ago and then those who belong to Him at His second coming. That's it. But, you require another resurrection of believers years after the resurrection of the dead in Christ occurs. Paul did not teach such a thing.

 

[Taken]

IMO believers are taken up by Jesus,

Converted Believers Yes.

as seen in Revelation 14:14-16, to avoid the bowl judgments.

They Escape, ie.. are delivered From…
All the Negative Judgements Sent From Heaven…
7 Seals,
7 Trumps,
Woes,
7 Bowls
Second Resurrection

The bowl judgments IMO are Middle-Eastern, not global.

Not likely.

When Jesus returns he will bring back with him these whom he took up, along with other believers who were previously living in heaven.

Agree.

 

[William Barton]

You need to remember that the book of Revelation was written many years AFTER 1 THess. Paul and the Thessalonians had no idea about a seventh trump

KUWN noted:
<no idea about a seventh trump.>

Bible noted:
o. "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the last (of SEVEN) trump"
(1Corinthians 15:52)

o. "Then the SEVENTH angel trumpeted..."
(Revelation 11:15)

 

[William Barton]

There is no rapture at the 7th trumpet. The 7th trumpet is the Day of the Lord and Armageddon. The bowls are already finished.

The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord.

The Light noted:
<no rapture at the seventh trump>

Bible noted:
<In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead will be RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, and we will be changed> (1Corinthians 15:52)

There are seven trumpets. The seventh is the LAST TRUMP of the seven.

 

[KUWN]

KUWN noted:
<no idea about a seventh trump.>

Bible noted:
o. "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the last (of SEVEN) trump"
(1Corinthians 15:52)

o. "Then the SEVENTH angel trumpeted..."
(Revelation 11:15)

Well, there are not 7 trumps in the NT. Matt 24.31 is the 8th trump, and then, during the Millennium, there will be more and more trumps.

Also, it is ill-advised to add to the Scripture, which you did in 1 Cor 15.52, see parentheses.

The 7 Trumps are in the Jewish Dispensation, whereas the 8th trump is in the Church Dispensation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well, there are not 7 trumps in the NT. Matt 24.31 is the 8th trump, and then, during the Millennium, there will be more and more trumps.

Also, it is ill-advised to add to the Scripture, which you did in 1 Cor 15.52, see parentheses.

The 7 Trumps are in the Jewish Dispensation, whereas the 8th trump is in the Church Dispensation.

So, in your view the last trumpet is not really the last trumpet at all. It's the second to last trumpet in your view. But, it will be the last prophetic trumpet which makes it equivalent to the seventh trumpet in Revelation.

 

[William Barton]

There is no rapture at the 7th trumpet. The 7th trumpet is the Day of the Lord and Armageddon. The bowls are already finished.

The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord.

The Light noted:
<no rapture at the seventh trump>

Bible noted:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first." (1Thessalonians 4:16).

<So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.> (Revelation 14:16, rapture)

<In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, *at the last trump;* for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.> (1Corinthians 15:52).

There are seven trumps, the seventh is the last trump (1Corinthians 15:52).

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus placed the rapture as pre-great-tribulation; there has always been tribulation.

There's no such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

 

[Truth7t7]

The Light noted:
<no rapture at the seventh trump>

Bible noted:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first." (1Thessalonians 4:16).

Yes this is the Lord's second coming and the last day resurrection of all

<So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.> (Revelation 14:16, rapture)

The Lord's second coming and last day resurrection of all, the earth being reaped = resurrection

<In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, *at the last trump;* for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.> (1Corinthians 15:52).

The Lord's second coming and last day resurrection of all

There are seven trumps, the seventh is the last trump (1Corinthians 15:52).

I Agree there are only seven Trumps, and the 7th is when Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)


Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes this is the Lord's second coming and the last day resurrection of all

The Lord's second coming and last day resurrection of all, the earth being reaped = resurrection

The Lord's second coming and last day resurrection of all

Not all. It says only those who are Christ's which means the saved. That's a Premill belief.


23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Rev 20 says the rest of the dead do not live again until after the thousand years. That's also Premill. The bible is Premill. There is no other position in scripture.

 

[Truth7t7]

Not all. It says only those who are Christ's which means the saved. That's a Premill belief.


23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Rev 20 says the rest of the dead do not live again until after the thousand years. That's also Premill. The bible is Premill. There is no other position in scripture.

Your problem is that you falsely believe the words "Thousand Years" pertains to a literal Kingdom on this earth at the Lord's return, and your belief is 100% "Wrong" no earthly Kingdom exist's in Revelation 20:1-6 as you've been show "Several Times" in your continued denial

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Truth7t7]

Not all. It says only those who are Christ's which means the saved. That's a Premill belief.


23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Rev 20 says the rest of the dead do not live again until after the thousand years. That's also Premill. The bible is Premill. There is no other position in scripture.

Revelation 20:6 "The First Resurrection" Explained

There will be "Two Future Resurrections" on "The Last Day" the righteous saved are "Blessed" to be in "The First Resurrection" to eternal life, the second death resurrection has no power over the righteous saved

The second death will see the unsaved wicked being in "The Second Resurrection" to eternal damnation in the lake of fire, or the "Second Death"

"The Last Day" Resurrection of "All"

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Revelation 20:6KJV
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

1.) The First Resurrection To Eternal Life
2.) The Second Resurrection To Eternal Damnation, Second Death

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(The First Resurrection Of The Righteous Saved) The Dead In Christ Shall Rise "First"

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(The Second Resurrection Of The Wicked To The Second Death In Eternal Damnation)

Revelation 20:13-14KJV
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[KUWN]

The Light noted:
<no rapture at the seventh trump>

Bible noted:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first." (1Thessalonians 4:16).

<So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.> (Revelation 14:16, rapture)

<In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, *at the last trump;* for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.> (1Corinthians 15:52).

There are seven trumps, the seventh is the last trump (1Corinthians 15:52).

There are 7 trumpets in Rev and 1 mentioned in Matt 24.31, which comes after the 7 th, making it the 8th. It is the last trump of the Church Age. The 7 trumpets are the 7 last trumps in the Jewish Dispensation. BTW. there will be many trumpets sounding during the Millennium.

 

[The Light]

The Light noted:
<no rapture at the seventh trump>

There is no rapture at the 7th trumpet blown by an angel. Nothing, nothing whatsoever, show any whim of a hint that there is a rapture when the 7th trumpet sounds.

Bible noted:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first." (1Thessalonians 4:16).

This is rapture before the great tribulation when THE LORD HIMSELF COMES, at the trump of God or voice of God. Here we can see the trump of God is the voice of God.

Rev 4
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

<So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.> (Revelation 14:16, rapture)

<In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, *at the last trump;* for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.> (1Corinthians 15:52).

This is the second rapture that occurs at the 6th seal. The last trump occurs on the Feast of Trumpets.

This is when the Lord sends His angels to gather the elect which will mostly be Jews prior to the 7th seal wrath of God.

There are seven trumps, the seventh is the last trump (1Corinthians 15:52).

The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. The Feast of Trumpets is a day of blowing trumpets with the last trump being the last trump.

 

[Truth7t7]

This is rapture before the great tribulation when THE LORD HIMSELF COMES, at the trump of God or voice of God. Here we can see the trump of God is the voice of God.

Your Claim Is (100% "False")

1 Thessalonians 4:16 below represents the Lord's second coming and (The Last Day) resurrection, your claim it represents a pre-trib rapture with a great tribulation of several years following is "Malarkey"!

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[The Light]

There are 7 trumpets in Rev and 1 mentioned in Matt 24.31, which comes after the 7 th, making it the 8th.

Actually, the trumpet of Matthew 24:31 does not come AFTER the 7 trumpets blown by angels. The trumpet of Matthew 24:31 occurs at the 6th seal. At the 6th seal there is a harvest of the Jews prior to the 7th seal wrath of God. This is the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets the fall fruit harvest feast for the Jew. With the scriptures below we can PROVE that the trumpet of Matthew 24:31 occurs at the 6th seal.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

From the scriptures above we can correctly conclude that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. We can PROVE that Jesus comes for a harvest at the 6th seal. He is coming for the seed of the woman, Israel which are the 12 tribes across the earth. When the Dragon can't get to the woman as she has fled to a place of protection, he goes after her seed which are the Jews around the world. Again, this harvest occurs at the 6th seal before the 7th seal is opened. The 7th seal is the wrath of God and believers are not appointed to wrath.

After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in at the rapture of the Church before the great tribulation, part of Israel will have its blindness removed and realize that Jesus is the Messiah.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

We can also see the harvest which occurs at the 6th seal before wrath in Revelation 14

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

It is the last trump of the Church Age.

No, sir. the Church age is over BEFORE the great tribulation. The great tribulation begins when the AOD is set up in the midst of the week.

The 7 trumpets are the 7 last trumps in the Jewish Dispensation.

No, sir. The 7 trumpets and 7 vials are the 7th seal wrath of God.

The Church will be raptured before the great tribulation. Then God turns His attention to the Jews as part of them have their blindness removed and realize that Jesus is the Messiah. The great tribulation is the time of Jacobs trouble which is the time of the people of Daniels trouble. Immediately after the great tribulation there will be the second rapture which will mostly be Jews as believers are not appointed to wrath but to receive salvation.

1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Those of the nation of Israel that flee to a place of protection will remain on the earth during Gods wrath.

Isaiah 26
Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

BTW. there will be many trumpets sounding during the Millennium.

Yes there are. Day of Atonement and Feast of Tabernacles to name a couple.

 

[William Barton]

Yes this is the Lord's second coming and the last day resurrection of all

The Lord's second coming and last day resurrection of all, the earth being reaped = resurrection

The Lord's second coming and last day resurrection of all

I Agree there are only seven Trumps, and the 7th is when Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)


Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at t

There are 7 trumpets in Rev and 1 mentioned in Matt 24.31, which comes after the 7 th, making it the 8th. It is the last trump of the Church Age. The 7 trumpets are the 7 last trumps in the Jewish Dispensation. BTW. there will be many trumpets sounding during the Millennium.

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 occurs at the 6th seal immediately after the great tribulation and before the 7th seal wrath of God.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the 1st 6 seals.

o. Rapture by Jesus at Revelation 14:14-16​

o. Judgments begin Revelation 14:17-20​

 

[The Light]

o. Rapture by Jesus at Revelation 14:14-16​

This is the second rapture. It is not the rapture of the Church. The Church will be raptured BEFORE the great tribulation. The rapture in Revelation 14 will be mostly Jews. This is why there are 144,000 first fruits at the first of Rev 14 that are of the 12 tribes.

This rapture occurs at the 6th seal immediately after the great tribulation and before the 7th seal wrath of God. Unbelievers are cast into the wrath of God.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

This occurs at the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The Church is already in heaven BEFORE the seals are opened. See the kings and priest from out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation in Revelation 5.

Those raptured in Revelation 14.........which is the second rapture, are Jews. The Church is in heaven before the great tribulation. Those in the great tribulation that are hunted and killed are mostly Jews. They get victory over the beast and are singing the song of Moses.

Revelation 14
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

It is the Jews that are raptured in Revelation 14, not the Church. It is the Jews that are here on earth during the great tribulation which is the time of Jacobs trouble. It is the Jews that get victory over the beast.

There is no rapture at the 7th trumpet. There is a rapture before the great tribulation for the Church and there is a rapture immediately after the great tribulation for the Jews. Believers are not appointed to wrath.

The vials do not come after the trumpets. It's all over when the 7th trumpet sounds. The wrath of God if finished. The vials have already happened. Armageddon is over. It is the time of judgement.

o. Judgments begin Revelation 14:17-20​

No sir. Unbelievers are cast into the wrath of God. The seventh seal which is the wrath of God is not opened yet. The trumpets and vials are the wrath of God. They occur in the same timeframe. The vials DO NOT follow the trumpets. The trumpets and vials are two visions of the same timeframe which is the ONE YEAR wrath of God.

Revelation 14:17-20
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Judgement occurs after the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. At the end of the 7th trumpet, it is the time of Judgement. It is time for the millennial kingdom to be set up. The dead are raised. Wrath is over.

 

[The Light]

Your Claim Is (100% "False")

1 Thessalonians 4:16 below represents the Lord's second coming and (The Last Day) resurrection, your claim it represents a pre-trib rapture with a great tribulation of several years following is "Malarkey"!

You need to read the next verse. 1 Thes 4 shows the rapture of the Church. We meet the Lord in the air. There is no coming to the earth.

1 Thessalonians 4
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

aul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal. Jesus comes for a harvest seen here.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

This rapture is for the Jews. Believers are taken to heaven where they join the Church and become the great multitude. Believers are at the marriage supper during the wrath of God. Unbelievers are cast into the wrath of God. Unbelievers remain on the earth during the wrath of God.

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

And what you don't understand is that the day of vengeance lasts for ONE YEAR. The Day of the Lord will occur after one year which will be Armageddon when the Lord will speak the Word.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

And what you don't understand is that the Lord comes at the 6th seal immediately after the great tribulation and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall be raised. NOT ALL OF THEM that sleep in the dust of the earth...........MANY OF THEM.

Daniel 12
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Daniel 12:1-2 proves you are not understanding what you are reading.