Matthew was written in Greek, though we have reasons to believe that a Hebrew or Aramaic version of Matthew once existed.
A Textual Challenge to the “Mary and Joseph Had Later Relations” Position
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Matthew was written in Greek, though we have reasons to believe that a Hebrew or Aramaic version of Matthew once existed.
Around 180 Irenaeus of Lyons wrote that
Matthew issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter. Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him. Afterwards John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon his breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia. (Against Heresies 3:1:1)
I show you evidence of Mattew was first written in Hebrew.
Show us your evidence Matthew was first written in Greek.
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You don't need to send me a religious resume, just your arguments will do.
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The web site clearly stated that all these are spiritual guides, draw us closer to GOD. Are you always rejecting things that draw you close to GOD?Here is a Catholic site with 15 prayers to Mary with their unbiblical pronunciations.
10 Powerful Prayers Every Catholic Must Say to the Virgin Mary Today
These prayers reflect the deep reverence and love that Catholics have for Mary, recognizing her unique role as the Mother of God and our spiritual mother.www.practicalfaiths.com
Something outside the Canon does not mean no reference value.
In Jude 1:14–15, the author explicitly cites 1 Enoch 1:9, writing: Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: 'See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone...
Even Jesus quoted non-canonical texts in his teaching.
Jesus' teaching "In everything, do to others what you would have them do to you" (Matthew 7:12) mirrors earlier ethical inversions found in Jewish wisdom literature, including Tobit 4:15 ("What you hate, do not do to anyone")
Martin Luther Iin the preface to his translation of the Apocrypha, Luther explicitly defended keeping them bound inside the Christian Bible,: "Cui bono? What good are such books? Even if they do not have the same authority as Holy Scripture, they are nevertheless useful and good to read."
You are too poisoned by 'sola scriptura'!
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It's important that you understand that I'm quite familiar with Catholic teachings and practice.
Totally agree. But not infallible, as Scripture is. Just because something is in an old document doesn't make it true either.
I'm not going to write a dissertation on this but here's some lines of evidence:
- Matthew relies heavily on the Greek text of Mark, often using Mark's Greek phrasing.
- The Greek style of Mark is fluid and easy, and not clunky as is often the case when translating from Hebrew to Greek.
- Matthew often cites the Greek Septuagint, rather than the Hebrew.
- We haven't found any Hebrew manuscripts of Matthew, but we have numerous Greek manuscripts of Matthew.
I rather prefer you to write a mini-dissertation than just a few simple lines without any supporting materials.
Just like firing blank shots to the air.
Why do you suspect we don't have any ancient manuscripts of Matthew in Hebrew, and that all the very earliest manuscripts of Matthew are in Greek?
We don't have any manuscripts of the Pentateuch written by Moses in proto-Sinaitic script does not mean there never have one.
You wrote:
"Clearly it's not stated specifically in the text..."
and:
"her question - given all the other available data - is best explained that for some reason in her mind, she thought he meant that she would be pregnant before consummating the marriage."
I understand that you think Mary inferred a pre-consummation conception. You've already acknowledged that Luke does not explicitly state this and that you're proposing it as the explanation that best accounts for why Mary asked the question.
My question, then, is why that should be considered the most natural inference. Gabriel merely says, "You will conceive and bear a Son," not that She conceive immediately or before consummation of marriage, and you've already argued that Mary expected a normal marriage with Joseph, including ordinary marital relations.
So why wouldn't the more natural inference be that the announced conception would occur through those expected marital relations? In other words, why should Mary infer from Gabriel's announcement that the conception would occur before consummation rather than through the ordinary marital relations you say She expected with Joseph?
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Agreed. I never said as much. It's just one piece of evidence against it existing.
Court cases - like trying to figure out the past - isn't generally done by "proof". It's done by gathering pieces of evidence, and generally speaking, each individual piece doesn't *prove* the case, but put it all together and it adds up. You get this, right?
Correct. And I'm right about this. It IS best explained this way.
Luke doesn't specifically say either way. You don't get to start with the presumption that Mary was ever virgin, a view only to be overturned if the text says something specific against it.
Because:
(1) The expectation for couples was that they would consummate the marriage, and "be fruitful and multiply" as a married couple, and there's quite literally no reason to believe that Mary and Joseph expected to not consummate their marriage.
(2) Because her response is a giveaway that this is what she likely thought. And
(3) Because as it turns out - AND YOU KEEP IGNORING THIS - she would have been 100% correct, because this is EXACTLY what did, in fact, HAPPEN.
The fact that she asked it itself indicates that she expected something quite out of the ordinary.
See above.
Listen, you keep asking the same questions over and over and over as if I haven't already answered them over and over and over, doesn't make your case stronger. It just shows that you simply either don't get it, or WON'T get it.
Ty RN :)
Sex AFTER the birth of Jesus ? YES
There are NO verses that teach otherwise
Toxication by 'sola scriptura'!
If a doctrine isn’t explicitly spelled out with step-by-step anatomical blueprints in a 21st-century English proof-text, it must be false.
But the ancient church didn't operate on modern literalist checklists. From the earliest centuries of Christianity embraced unanimously by the ancient Church Fathers, Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, and even the founders of the Reformation (including Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Huldrych Zwingli)—historic Christianity universally upheld the doctrine of the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.
So, it is you guys here that have run off the track.
Which is correct, HE or SHE in Gen 3:15 ?
Vulgate .................she shall crush your head
RSV- Catholic ... he shall bruise your head
The Protoevangelium of James tells us that Joseph and Mary are not normal couple.
You do more readings and see a bigger picture.
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