The Sin of the Consumption of Blood
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I think it quite amazing you know so much about me from one post. how do you know All this info about me?
So I am a liar. 1. I also eat meat do I?2 I cant abstain from meat eating? 3 I am lazy? 4 I dont fear or walk with God? 5 And I discard Gods commands? How do you kniow all this?
Now the nonsense makes sense. Your the guy with your own little set up. That you wrote and pised together for yur little world. I already told you.
Because you are resisting a simple teaching to abstain from blood. If you weren't these things, you would be saying, "praise God! For someone is speaking the truth". An evil man does not rejoice when someone speaks the truth contrary to how he lives, he resists and despises him.
Then continue eating the meat with the blood, and see what happens. Let us see what the Lord will say to you on the day of judgment for refusing to abstain from blood on a false premise that you cannot separate the two.
Helen
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I won't even bother to interact or respond for a 'discussion' with a rude person who keeps saying " You people". Obviously you enjoy bullying, not discussing.
Have at it.
Have at it.
You ignored all my questions this is a one way conversation???????????????????????????????????????
well they can only talk about what they have interest in, sin, what's a sin and what's not a sin, sin this sin that, bla bla bla. thing is one would think that if one knows the Lord then one would talk about the Lord, but it seems they know sin and what a sinner is better. one doesn't have to know the Lord to know and argue what sin is.
I agree that God's moral laws have always existed.
But that is not what you claimed. You claimed that the "Law of Moses" has not been abolished.
What you call the "Law of Moses" as laid out Exodus & Leviticus were given to the Israelites at Sinai as their Covenant Law for the Old (Sinai) Covenant. That Old Covenant has been abolished along with the Laws that go with them.
As Moses himself said
The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive this day. (Dt 5:2-4).
That Covenant and it's laws were not given to the Israelites before Sinai and they were never given to the Gentiles
Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands-- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (Eph 2:12)
"You people" is rude? Didn't Jesus Christ say,
No where in scripture will you ever read that the "Law of Moses" has been abolished (for I have read everything, and if you think you have found one, then it is either mistranslated or you a misinterpreting it), for even the Lord said, "I did not come to abolish the Law..." and "the Law will not disappear until heaven and earth vanishes", so then rest assured, this Law that you say is abolished has not been abolished. Not only does this law include what you call "moral law", but other commands like, "a man must not wear women's clothing", "you must not have tattoos", "love God with all your heart", "do not withhold from giving to the poor among you". Tell me, do you suppose of these commands have been abolished, according to you? The only commands of the Law that have changed, in how anyone in the new covenant observes them, are "shadow commands", which are identified as festivals, sabbaths, new moons, abstaining from foods, circumcision.... which are no longer observed because these particular commands were foreshadows of greater realities found in Jesus Christ, and by observing the realities then do the requirements of these commands become fulfilled, hence why Jesus Christ said, "I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill".
Thinking that the Law is abolished will lead you to a path to destruction, because you are essentially discarding the commands of God, which will cause you to be disobedient, not knowing that it is the Law that reveals everything that is sin. Whilst deliverance does not come by works of Law, neither does disobedience. At some point, you must come into complete obedience of the Law, which is what becoming "blameless" means, which Noah was called blameless, and Abraham, and even Paul spoke of himself as "blameless", that you may then receive the seal of the holy spirit, which circumcises your heart, which discards you of your sinful nature, and therein comes deliverance, by being born again of the Spirit. If you never attain this, you do not belong to Jesus Christ.
You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. (Romans 8:9 [NIV])
And you are worse off thinking the Law is abolished.
You are very confused about the Law.
Are Christians obliged to keep any part of the Old Testament Law (The Law of Moses), including in particular the “Ten Commandments”. The simple answer is no. The OT Laws were part of the Old (Sinai) Covenant and Christians are under the New Covenant.
Moreover the Sinai Covenant given only for the Jews. It was never given for Gentiles.
We can see this clearly in Dt. 5:1-9
1 And Moses summoned all Israel, and said to them, "Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I speak in your hearing this day, and you shall learn them and be careful to do them.
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive this day.
4 The Lord spoke with you face to face at the mountain, out of the midst of the fire,
5 while I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to declare to you the word of the LORD; for you were afraid because of the fire, and you did not go up into the mountain. He said:
6 "'I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
7 "'You shall have no other gods before me………
22 "These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly at the mountain out of the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and he added no more. And he wrote them upon two tables of stone, and gave them to me…….
27 Go near, and hear all that the Lord our God will say; and speak to us all that the Lord our God will speak to you; and we will hear and do it.'
This very clearly shows that the Ten Commandments were given the Israelites at Horeb (Sinai) as part of the Covenant Law. The Covenant was made between God and the Israelites with Moses as Covenant Mediator.
Paul says:
Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands-- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (Eph 2:12)
Gentiles were strangers to the covenant.
Paul says to the Galatian Gentiles who were Judaising
Tell me, you who desire to be under law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, the son of the free woman through promise. Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. For it is written, "Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and shout, you who are not in travail; for the children of the desolate one are many more than the children of her that is married." Now we, brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now. But what does the scripture say? "Cast out the slave and her son; for the son of the slave shall not inherit with the son of the free woman." So, brethren, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman. (Gal 4:21-31)
He is clear. To go back to Judaism (accepting the Law) is to put yourself back into slavery.
He goes on to warn them:.
You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Gal 5:4)
Contd.
The Jews recognise 613 laws within the Law of Moses. For Jews the Law was indivisible. whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it. (Jas 2:10).
“Cursed be everyone who does not persevere in doing all the things written in the book of the law.” (Gal 3:10)
The Law was a mixture of moral, ceremonial and regulatory precepts. For example in Leviticus 19 we have the following (among others)
You shall not steal. You shall not lie or speak falsely to one another. You shall not swear falsely by my name, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the Lord (vs 11-12)
Keep my statutes: do not breed any of your domestic animals with others of a different species; do not sow a field of yours with two different kinds of seed; and do not put on a garment woven with two different kinds of thread (vs 19)
Do not eat meat with the blood still in it. Do not practice divination or soothsaying. Do not clip your hair at the temples, nor trim the edges of your beard (vs 26-27)
Do we observe them all today? The answer is clearly no. But equally we do regard some as binding on us. These latter are what we consider as moral laws. But note that they are not confined to the Ten Commandments. For example fornication is not one of the Ten Commandments but is clearly condemned in the New Testament (1Cor 6:9)
The Old Testament written law has been replaced by the New Testament law written not in ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets that are hearts of flesh. (2 Cor 3:3).
Firstly let us look at the case for the abolition of the OT Law starting with St. Paul’s letter to the Romans.
Are you unaware, brothers (for I am speaking to people who know the law [i.e. Jews]), that the law has jurisdiction over one as long as one lives? Thus a married woman is bound by law to her living husband; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law in respect to her husband. Consequently, while her husband is alive she will be called an adulteress if she consorts with another man. But if her husband dies she is free from that law, and she is not an adulteress if she consorts with another man.
In the same way, my brothers, you also were put to death to the law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to the one who was raised from the dead in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the flesh, our sinful passions, awakened by the law, worked in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, dead to what held us captive, so that we may serve in the newness of the spirit and not under the obsolete letter. (Rom 7:1-6)
We [Jews] are put to death to the Law
We [Jews] are released from the Law
Note particularly that this is particularly relevant because God considered himself “married” to Israel. When Jesus died the Covenant ended and Jesus was free to take a new bride – the Church.
Paul himself declares he is no longer under the Law.
To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law--though not being myself under the law--that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law [Gentiles] I became as one outside the law--not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ--that I might win those outside the law.
He also makes here a clear distinction between those under the Law (the Jews) and those not under the Law (the Gentiles)
Galatians 3:
Before faith came, we [Jews] were held in custody under law, confined for the faith that was to be revealed. Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian for Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a disciplinarian. (Gal 3:23-25).
We (Jews) are not under the Law
Paul describes the Jews and Gentiles as separated but then he says:
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, (Eph 2:13-15)
The Law has been abolished.
Col 2 says much the same:
And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (Col 2:14)
Does this include the Ten Commandments? Yes, because the Law in indivisible.
For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it. For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not kill.” Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law. (Jas 2:10-11)
Moreover there are specific texts that show this:
Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, was so glorious that the Israelites could not look intently at the face of Moses because of its glory that was going to fade, how much more will the ministry of the Spirit be glorious? (2 Cor 3:7-8)
What was carved in letters on stone and therefore described as “the ministry of death”. Answer – the Ten Commandments
The Book of Hebrews makes this replacement of the Old Covenant by the New very clear.
On the one hand, a former commandment is annulled because of its weakness and uselessness, for the law brought nothing to perfection; on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. (Heb 7:18-19)
When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of law as well. (Heb 7:12)
For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second one. But he finds fault with them and says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will conclude a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. (Heb 8:7-8)
When he speaks of a “new” covenant, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing (Heb 8:13)
He takes away the first to establish the second (Heb 10:9)
Do you get all those:
you also were put to death to the law through the body of Christ
But now we are released from the law, dead to what held us captive, so that we may serve in the newness of the spirit and not under the obsolete letter
Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian....we are no longer under a disciplinarian.
by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances
having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands
a former commandment is annulled
he declares the first one obsolete
He takes away the first to establish the second.
How can you claim the the Law still exists and binds us, especially us who were never under the Law?
And note, by Law here I (and the quotations I have given) are referring to the Law that was given to the Israelites as their legal code under the Sinai (Mosaic) Covenant.
“Cursed be everyone who does not persevere in doing all the things written in the book of the law.” (Gal 3:10)
The Law was a mixture of moral, ceremonial and regulatory precepts. For example in Leviticus 19 we have the following (among others)
You shall not steal. You shall not lie or speak falsely to one another. You shall not swear falsely by my name, thus profaning the name of your God. I am the Lord (vs 11-12)
Keep my statutes: do not breed any of your domestic animals with others of a different species; do not sow a field of yours with two different kinds of seed; and do not put on a garment woven with two different kinds of thread (vs 19)
Do not eat meat with the blood still in it. Do not practice divination or soothsaying. Do not clip your hair at the temples, nor trim the edges of your beard (vs 26-27)
Do we observe them all today? The answer is clearly no. But equally we do regard some as binding on us. These latter are what we consider as moral laws. But note that they are not confined to the Ten Commandments. For example fornication is not one of the Ten Commandments but is clearly condemned in the New Testament (1Cor 6:9)
The Old Testament written law has been replaced by the New Testament law written not in ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets that are hearts of flesh. (2 Cor 3:3).
Firstly let us look at the case for the abolition of the OT Law starting with St. Paul’s letter to the Romans.
Are you unaware, brothers (for I am speaking to people who know the law [i.e. Jews]), that the law has jurisdiction over one as long as one lives? Thus a married woman is bound by law to her living husband; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law in respect to her husband. Consequently, while her husband is alive she will be called an adulteress if she consorts with another man. But if her husband dies she is free from that law, and she is not an adulteress if she consorts with another man.
In the same way, my brothers, you also were put to death to the law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to the one who was raised from the dead in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the flesh, our sinful passions, awakened by the law, worked in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, dead to what held us captive, so that we may serve in the newness of the spirit and not under the obsolete letter. (Rom 7:1-6)
We [Jews] are put to death to the Law
We [Jews] are released from the Law
Note particularly that this is particularly relevant because God considered himself “married” to Israel. When Jesus died the Covenant ended and Jesus was free to take a new bride – the Church.
Paul himself declares he is no longer under the Law.
To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law--though not being myself under the law--that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law [Gentiles] I became as one outside the law--not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ--that I might win those outside the law.
He also makes here a clear distinction between those under the Law (the Jews) and those not under the Law (the Gentiles)
Galatians 3:
Before faith came, we [Jews] were held in custody under law, confined for the faith that was to be revealed. Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian for Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a disciplinarian. (Gal 3:23-25).
We (Jews) are not under the Law
Paul describes the Jews and Gentiles as separated but then he says:
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, (Eph 2:13-15)
The Law has been abolished.
Col 2 says much the same:
And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (Col 2:14)
Does this include the Ten Commandments? Yes, because the Law in indivisible.
For whoever keeps the whole law, but falls short in one particular, has become guilty in respect to all of it. For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,” also said, “You shall not kill.” Even if you do not commit adultery but kill, you have become a transgressor of the law. (Jas 2:10-11)
Moreover there are specific texts that show this:
Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, was so glorious that the Israelites could not look intently at the face of Moses because of its glory that was going to fade, how much more will the ministry of the Spirit be glorious? (2 Cor 3:7-8)
What was carved in letters on stone and therefore described as “the ministry of death”. Answer – the Ten Commandments
The Book of Hebrews makes this replacement of the Old Covenant by the New very clear.
On the one hand, a former commandment is annulled because of its weakness and uselessness, for the law brought nothing to perfection; on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. (Heb 7:18-19)
When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of law as well. (Heb 7:12)
For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second one. But he finds fault with them and says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will conclude a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. (Heb 8:7-8)
When he speaks of a “new” covenant, he declares the first one obsolete. And what has become obsolete and has grown old is close to disappearing (Heb 8:13)
He takes away the first to establish the second (Heb 10:9)
Do you get all those:
you also were put to death to the law through the body of Christ
But now we are released from the law, dead to what held us captive, so that we may serve in the newness of the spirit and not under the obsolete letter
Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian....we are no longer under a disciplinarian.
by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances
having cancelled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands
a former commandment is annulled
he declares the first one obsolete
He takes away the first to establish the second.
How can you claim the the Law still exists and binds us, especially us who were never under the Law?
And note, by Law here I (and the quotations I have given) are referring to the Law that was given to the Israelites as their legal code under the Sinai (Mosaic) Covenant.
The Law that you say does not apply to Gentiles is the very Law the entire world will be judged by,
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. (Romans 3:19 [NIV])
The Law was indeed given to the Israelites, to bear witness unto the entire world what righteousness is. It is you who does not understand, because you don't want to obey the commands of God, and think they are tedious.
Please answer the points I made rather than skipping off somewhere else.
Here are some of those points
To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law--though not being myself under the law--that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law [Gentiles] I became as one outside the law--not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ--that I might win those outside the law. (1Cor 9:20-22)
Paul says he is not under the Law
Paul says the Gentiles were outside the Law.
Before faith came, we [Jews] were held in custody under law, confined for the faith that was to be revealed. Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian for Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a disciplinarian. (Gal 3:23-25).
Paul says that we (Jews) are not under the Law
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, (Eph 2:13-15)
Paul says The Law has been abolished.
Are you unaware, brothers (for I am speaking to people who know the law [i.e. Jews]), that the law has jurisdiction over one as long as one lives? Thus a married woman is bound by law to her living husband; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law in respect to her husband. Consequently, while her husband is alive she will be called an adulteress if she consorts with another man. But if her husband dies she is free from that law, and she is not an adulteress if she consorts with another man.
In the same way, my brothers, you also were put to death to the law through the body of Christ, so that you might belong to another, to the one who was raised from the dead in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the flesh, our sinful passions, awakened by the law, worked in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are released from the law, dead to what held us captive, so that we may serve in the newness of the spirit and not under the obsolete letter. (Rom 7:1-6)
Paul says we [Jews] are put to death to the Law
Paul says we [Jews] are released from the Law
On the one hand, a former commandment is annulled because of its weakness and uselessness, for the law brought nothing to perfection; on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. (Heb 7:18-19)
The writer of Hebrews says the law has been abolished
When there is a change of priesthood, there is necessarily a change of law as well. (Heb 7:12)
The writer of Hebrews says their is a change in the law.
Let's have some answers from you.
Because the Law is universal to everyone. Whether you are a Gentile or not, knowing a command like"you will not kill" is obvious to be a sin whether you have read the Law or not because the Law coincides with what is naturally good.
#
How can the "Law of Moses" be universal when It wasn't given to anyone before the Sinai Covenant?
And how obvious is "Do not clip your hair at the temples, nor trim the edges of your beard"?
Not being under the Law does not mean you are free to disobey the Law, hence why Paul elsewhere said, "do we nullify the Law by this faith? No, we uphold Law". What it means is that you are no longer under the slavery of sin whose power is the Law,
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. (1 Corinthians 15:16 [NIV])
Because you have been freed from sin,
You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. (Romans 6:18 [NIV])
And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. (Ezekiel 36:27 [ESV])
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9 [KJV])
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. (John 8:34-36 [NIV])
For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the ones having been sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14 [ABP])
Which is why when you come under the law of Christ, which means to come UNDER THE SPIRIT, AT THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, you are no longer under Law, because you have been freed from the sin that the Law reveals, which essentially means YOU WILL UPHOLD AND OBEY LAW THAT YOU YOURSELF WERE NOT ABLE TO OBEY NOT HAVING THE SPIRIT, because you are being caused to obey it by the holy spirit,
in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Romans 8:4 [NIV])
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. (1 Peter 1:2 [ESV])
So this where your disconnect is, you confuse not being under Law to mean you are now free to disobey the Law, when it is in fact quite the contrary, you must stop disobeying the Law so that you may receive the baptism of the holy spirit that will then rid you of your sinful nature that caused you to break it in the first place,
In Him you were also circumcised in the putting off of your sinful nature… (Colossians 2:11 [BSB])
No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God. (Romans 2:29 [NIV])
And spirit of the LORD shall spring upon you, and you shall prophesy with them, and you shall turn into another man. (1 Samuel 10:6 [ABP])
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