Catholics

[Marymog]

Because I know Jesus and you are not from Him.

And a strangers voice they will not follow.

I know Jesus also and the Spirit is guiding me. I have been inspired to tell you: Your words are not of Scripture and they are hurting Him.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

No problem.

I guess all I can say is that if one is speaking to God, that is a prayer. If you disagree there, then I have nothing more to offer. One can do it publicly and be wrong if he is doing it to be seen of men to glorify himself. But there are times when it is called for and one can glorify God and Christ in it.

Stranger

Dear Stranger,

I fully understand your stance on this. However I vehemently disagree with you based on logic: If you THANK God or ANYONE for saving you, that is not a prayer. They are words of GRATITUDE.

I have asked you several times when did Jesus pray in public. You have only offered that ONE time that you believe he did; when he was thanking his Father for hearing him. I honestly can NOT find a time Jesus prayed in public.

Take a look at Luke 5:16, Luke 6:12, Mark 1:35, Matthew 14:23 and Luke 22:41-44. Jesus seems to have practiced what he preached.

But then I read John 17 and it appears like he is praying in front of his apostles and/or disciples but it reads like He is alone because he is talking (praying) like no one is around him. It is very confusing. It almost seems like a statement instead of a prayer (if that makes sense).

Confused Mary

 

[pia]

Hi Pia,

I am not trolling you. I just want to know from you what Jesus has told you. I have never met anyone that has had Jesus visit them in dreams and tell them things.

I apologize for quoting you and asking you to defend your own statements. I guess hitting the ignore button is one way of not having to defend your own personal beliefs that are not based on scripture or anything Jesus said in scripture.

It makes me sad you can't take a stance on something as simple as abortion or killing another human being. Taking a stance on the killing of another human is not based on your "personal beliefs". It is in scripture. You should read it sometime.

I never said that you claimed "to have the secret to rightly dividing the Word". I asked you a very simple question: How do you KNOW when YOU are rightly dividing the word of Truth and no one else is? That question is partially based on YOUR STATEMEMT that the pastor was 100% wrong in what he was teaching. If you KNOW the pastor is 100% wrong then you must have some knowledge that he doesn't. How do you know that Jesus hasn't visited the pastor and told him things also?

Mary

Since you claimed that the spirit you spoke to, told you ( according to you yourself ) that what I have been told by Jesus is all wrong, I really don't think we have any common ground whatsoever. And you know what, I HAVE answered you on quite a number of occasions, but you simply won't consider it and quite frankly, you could simply not be reading the responses . The reason I was thinking of hitting the ignore button is because you have your spirits, and I have the One I listen to, who has been teaching me. Since they are quite obviously not the same, I have no interest in listening to those spirits, nor would I want to be a stumbling block to those who may be still searching for Christ such as you, if indeed you are still searching? You keep saying you just want an answer, which I have repeatedly given you. So you're pretending once again to be interested means zero now.......There is a saying :" Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me", also I have quite enough to keep me busy on this forum , instead of just falling for your contempt each time, so you may or may not mean or have meant what you're on about, but it's a little late now. You should seek someone else, to take you up on your offer to become their Holy spirit by proxy, as you seem to see yourself that way. Good,luck to you with that Mary........When you finally see Him or indeed hear from Him, you have at least a chance to change your mind ( at least I truly hope so ). I did not say the pastor was wrong about everything, and not ONCE have I claimed to be right, I have merely pointed out that Jesus IS, and if He tells me something and some christian tells me something different, who do you think I should believe? Also if you had truly been listening to the Holy spirit, He would have taught you to mind your own business too, and concentrate on your own walk with Him, until ( if He does ) He releases you to go set people straight, which I really don't think He would ever do, as He says, that's The Holy Spirits 'job' to do that. I have no need to justify my personal beliefs to you, I don't know you from a bar of soap, so why on earth would I do that?
By the way, the pastor I referenced, was very clear that he had never had an encounter with the Lord, but that he had been to bible school. One other thing which I have written a few times now ( so you obviously do not read them ) is that you keep quoting it as a dream, it was not a dream when I met Jesus for the first time, neither were the other times....
But never mind I can't be bothered going through it all again......... You still come across as a troll, not just to me but also the way you answer other people, the way you bait them, it's disgusting ! What on earth are you doing here, wouldn't you-tube be a better soap box for you?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Can you show me in the Bible where the Church at Rome is to be called the Catholic or Roman Catholic Church? No, you can't.

Catholic speaks to the universal Church of Jesus Christ. Of which every believer is part of. They don't have to be part of the Church at Rome to be a part of the Universal or Catholic Church.

I don't believe I have ever denied being a Protestant. But a Protestant, if born-again, is part of the Catholic Church.

Stranger

WRONG.
Ignatius of Antioch's writings are the first place we see "The Catholic Church" being used as a TITLE - not a mere description.
His Letter to the Smyrnaeans was written at the beginning of the 2nd century - while the Apostle John was still alive:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

"Eucharist", obedience to Bishops and clergy - this doesn't sound "Protestant" at all - but CATHOLIC.

Here is the description of that "Catholic Church" from some other Early Church Fathers:
Irenaeus
The Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).

Irenaeus
But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 180-190]).

Tertullian
Where was Marcion then, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus then, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago – in the reign of Antoninus for the most part – and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled (On the Prescription Against Heretics 22,30 [A.D.200])

Cyprian
The spouse of Christ cannot be defiled; Does anyone believe that this unity which comes from divine strength, which is closely connected with the divine sacraments, can be broken asunder in the Church and be separated by the divisions of colliding wills? He who does not hold this unity, does not hold the law of God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation (On the Unity of the Catholic Church 6 [A.D. 251]).
Peter speaks there, on whom the Church was to be built, teaching and showing in the name of the Church, that although a rebellious and arrogant multitude of those who will not hear or obey may depart, yet the Church does not depart from Christ; and they are the Church who are a people united to the priest, and the flock which adheres to its pastor. Whence you ought to know that the bishop is in the Church, and the Church in the bishop; and if any one be not with the bishop, that he is not in the Church, and that those flatter themselves in vain who creep in, not having peace with God’s priests, and think that they communicate secretly with some; while the Church which is Catholic and one, is not cut nor divided, but is indeed connected and bound together by the cement of priests who cohere with one another (Letters 66 [A.D. 253]).
With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the Chair of Peter and to the principal church [at Rome], IN WHICH SACERDOTAL UNITY HAS ITS SOURCE" (Epistle to Cornelius [Bishop of Rome] 59:14 [A.D. 252]).

 

[pia]

I know Jesus also and the Spirit is guiding me. I have been inspired to tell you: Your words are not of Scripture and they are hurting Him.

Mary

Good grief, you are certainly full of something, but it surely is NOT the Holy Spirit. You speak of your understanding of scripture, we are talking about what the Lord has taught us, big difference! The Bible can be read and partly understood via the flesh, but if anyone wants to have the truth revealed from above, they will have to submit themselves under the mighty hand of God, admit they know nothing and then learn to take His word for things, and not rely on a book, which can by no means contain God. If we were hurting Him, He would be the first to tell us that. Isn't there any part of you that wants to really get to KNOW Him. Jesus? Even I don't accept that just because a thought comes into my mind ( even if I may think it is the Holy Spirit ) that it is the Holy spirit, I always wait on confirmation . Well Mary I can't say this has been pleasant, but I wish you the best, and I implore you, do NOT send me any more of your ludicrous posts claiming that I haven't answered you. Take some time and go back and read what I and others write and I mean REALLY read it, instead of running off half cocked the way you do.....If you only knew what you are missing !

 

[pia]

There is no such thing as the catholic church. There are those believers who Jesus has accepted as HIS Church, which is to be His bride. He can hardly marry the pope, the cardinals or the vatican lol.
The first believers called themselves 'The Way' because Jesus said that He was the Way, the Truth and the Life. It was changed in Rome to be called Christians.

 

[Marymog]

Since you claimed that the spirit you spoke to, told you ( according to you yourself ) that what I have been told by Jesus is all wrong, I really don't think we have any common ground whatsoever. And you know what, I HAVE answered you on quite a number of occasions, but you simply won't consider it and quite frankly, you could simply not be reading the responses . The reason I was thinking of hitting the ignore button is because you have your spirits, and I have the One I listen to, who has been teaching me. Since they are quite obviously not the same, I have no interest in listening to those spirits, nor would I want to be a stumbling block to those who may be still searching for Christ such as you, if indeed you are still searching? You keep saying you just want an answer, which I have repeatedly given you. So you're pretending once again to be interested means zero now.......There is a saying :" Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me", also I have quite enough to keep me busy on this forum , instead of just falling for your contempt each time, so you may or may not mean or have meant what you're on about, but it's a little late now. You should seek someone else, to take you up on your offer to become their Holy spirit by proxy, as you seem to see yourself that way. Good,luck to you with that Mary........When you finally see Him or indeed hear from Him, you have at least a chance to change your mind ( at least I truly hope so ). I did not say the pastor was wrong about everything, and not ONCE have I claimed to be right, I have merely pointed out that Jesus IS, and if He tells me something and some christian tells me something different, who do you think I should believe? Also if you had truly been listening to the Holy spirit, He would have taught you to mind your own business too, and concentrate on your own walk with Him, until ( if He does ) He releases you to go set people straight, which I really don't think He would ever do, as He says, that's The Holy Spirits 'job' to do that. I have no need to justify my personal beliefs to you, I don't know you from a bar of soap, so why on earth would I do that?
By the way, the pastor I referenced, was very clear that he had never had an encounter with the Lord, but that he had been to bible school. One other thing which I have written a few times now ( so you obviously do not read them ) is that you keep quoting it as a dream, it was not a dream when I met Jesus for the first time, neither were the other times....
But never mind I can't be bothered going through it all again......... You still come across as a troll, not just to me but also the way you answer other people, the way you bait them, it's disgusting ! What on earth are you doing here, wouldn't you-tube be a better soap box for you?

My Dear Precious Pia,

I never said that what you have been told by Jesus is all wrong and what the Spirit told me is right. If I did please quote me and tell me the post number that I said that in.

I will quote you from your August 4th post: I forgot to mention in my reply to you about my 'dream' of Jesus......" You did call it a "dream" so please don't accuse me of misquoting you.

I am simply saying that what the Spirit has told me (and other Christians for 2,000 years) is OPPOSITE of what you believe. Why was the pastor 100% wrong and you 100% right??? Why am I wrong and you right? Are you calling me a liar that the Holy Spirit has not inspired me and talked to me???

You have alleged that Jesus speaks to you in dreams. What I can't figure out is what He is telling you in these dreams is OPPOSITE of what is in scripture and 2,000 years of Christian teaching. Either Jesus is confused or you are.

You HAVE NOT answered me on a number of occasions. One VERY SIMPLE question I asked was the abortion/killing question that you haven't even tried to answer. All your answers are very generic; Trust Him, Believe Him, I pray for people, follow your own heart.

Those are all very nice words and ideas but they are not answers.

What you call baiting are actually legitimate questions that you can't logically answer NOR back your answer up with scripture. If you could, you would. But since you can't, you won't.

It's always easier to ignore someone then TRY and answer their legitimate questions.

Mary

 

[pia]

My Dear Precious Pia,

I never said that what you have been told by Jesus is all wrong and what the Spirit told me is right. If I did please quote me and tell me the post number that I said that in.

I will quote you from your August 4th post: I forgot to mention in my reply to you about my 'dream' of Jesus......" You did call it a "dream" so please don't accuse me of misquoting you.

I am simply saying that what the Spirit has told me (and other Christians for 2,000 years) is OPPOSITE of what you believe. Why was the pastor 100% wrong and you 100% right??? Why am I wrong and you right? Are you calling me a liar that the Holy Spirit has not inspired me and talked to me???

You have alleged that Jesus speaks to you in dreams. What I can't figure out is what He is telling you in these dreams is OPPOSITE of what is in scripture and 2,000 years of Christian teaching. Either Jesus is confused or you are.

You HAVE NOT answered me on a number of occasions. One VERY SIMPLE question I asked was the abortion/killing question that you haven't even tried to answer. All your answers are very generic; Trust Him, Believe Him, I pray for people, follow your own heart.

Those are all very nice words and ideas but they are not answers.

What you call baiting are actually legitimate questions that you can't logically answer NOR back your answer up with scripture. If you could, you would. But since you can't, you won't.

It's always easier to ignore someone then TRY and answer their legitimate questions.

Mary

For crying out loud, I wrote (dream) because that is what YOU called it, if I had meant to say that, I would not have put it in parenthesis, not would I have explained to you that I was 'dead' at the time ( out of my physical body). before He saved me from there, and THEN He came... Same with the rest of what you wrote. I can't abide you any longer, I have answered and answered to the best of my ability. Please DO NOT write me back again. This is a complete exercise in futility...You should write to BOL, I am sure He would love to hear from you.........

 

[Stranger]

WRONG.
Ignatius of Antioch's writings are the first place we see "The Catholic Church" being used as a TITLE - not a mere description.
His Letter to the Smyrnaeans was written at the beginning of the 2nd century - while the Apostle John was still alive:

Ignatius of Antioch
Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole Eucharist you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

"Eucharist", obedience to Bishops and clergy - this doesn't sound "Protestant" at all - but CATHOLIC.

Here is the description of that "Catholic Church" from some other Early Church Fathers:
Irenaeus
The Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).

Irenaeus
But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory, or through blindness and wicked opinion, assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 180-190]).

Tertullian
Where was Marcion then, that shipmaster of Pontus, the zealous student of Stoicism? Where was Valentinus then, the disciple of Platonism? For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago – in the reign of Antoninus for the most part – and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled (On the Prescription Against Heretics 22,30 [A.D.200])

Cyprian
The spouse of Christ cannot be defiled; Does anyone believe that this unity which comes from divine strength, which is closely connected with the divine sacraments, can be broken asunder in the Church and be separated by the divisions of colliding wills? He who does not hold this unity, does not hold the law of God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation (On the Unity of the Catholic Church 6 [A.D. 251]).
Peter speaks there, on whom the Church was to be built, teaching and showing in the name of the Church, that although a rebellious and arrogant multitude of those who will not hear or obey may depart, yet the Church does not depart from Christ; and they are the Church who are a people united to the priest, and the flock which adheres to its pastor. Whence you ought to know that the bishop is in the Church, and the Church in the bishop; and if any one be not with the bishop, that he is not in the Church, and that those flatter themselves in vain who creep in, not having peace with God’s priests, and think that they communicate secretly with some; while the Church which is Catholic and one, is not cut nor divided, but is indeed connected and bound together by the cement of priests who cohere with one another (Letters 66 [A.D. 253]).
With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the Chair of Peter and to the principal church [at Rome], IN WHICH SACERDOTAL UNITY HAS ITS SOURCE" (Epistle to Cornelius [Bishop of Rome] 59:14 [A.D. 252]).

All you have shown me is that the Roman Catholic Church is not to be found in Scripture. Instead it is a product over time of the wrong teaching of many in the Church.

Again, I have no problem with the Church being Catholic. It is Catholic. It just isn't Roman. Yours is Roman. The Universal Church is Catholic.

Stranger

 

[Marymog]

Good grief, you are certainly full of something, but it surely is NOT the Holy Spirit. You speak of your understanding of scripture, we are talking about what the Lord has taught us, big difference! The Bible can be read and partly understood via the flesh, but if anyone wants to have the truth revealed from above, they will have to submit themselves under the mighty hand of God, admit they know nothing and then learn to take His word for things, and not rely on a book, which can by no means contain God. If we were hurting Him, He would be the first to tell us that. Isn't there any part of you that wants to really get to KNOW Him. Jesus? Even I don't accept that just because a thought comes into my mind ( even if I may think it is the Holy Spirit ) that it is the Holy spirit, I always wait on confirmation . Well Mary I can't say this has been pleasant, but I wish you the best, and I implore you, do NOT send me any more of your ludicrous posts claiming that I haven't answered you. Take some time and go back and read what I and others write and I mean REALLY read it, instead of running off half cocked the way you do.....If you only knew what you are missing !

Oh goodness Pia.

You have resorted to calling me a liar. How sad.

You do know that what I said was to mjrhealth and not to you?

It seems you and mjrhealth have started your own church? You meet on a regular basis and talk about scripture? If so, would you be willing to tell me if it is just the two of you or do you meet with others?

I suspect you won't answer me. But that is ok. You have your church, I have mine.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

For crying out loud, I wrote (dream) because that is what YOU called it, if I had meant to say that, I would not have put it in parenthesis, not would I have explained to you that I was 'dead' at the time ( out of my physical body). before He saved me from there, and THEN He came... Same with the rest of what you wrote. I can't abide you any longer, I have answered and answered to the best of my ability. Please DO NOT write me back again. This is a complete exercise in futility...You should write to BOL, I am sure He would love to hear from you.........

Dear Pia,

I owe you a bit of an apology. The way you described the event with Jesus it sounded like a dream to me.

I misunderstood what you were describing. If it wasn't a dream, what was it?

I want to be clear. You, IMO, have not answered my questions. I still don't understand what you BELIEVE.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

For crying out loud, I wrote (dream) because that is what YOU called it, if I had meant to say that, I would not have put it in parenthesis, not would I have explained to you that I was 'dead' at the time ( out of my physical body). before He saved me from there, and THEN He came... Same with the rest of what you wrote. I can't abide you any longer, I have answered and answered to the best of my ability. Please DO NOT write me back again. This is a complete exercise in futility...You should write to BOL, I am sure He would love to hear from you.........

I agree, this is a complete exercise in futility. You can't or won't answer legitimate questions.
It's always easier to ignore someone then TRY and answer their legitimate questions.

 

[aspen]

Can you show me in the Bible where the Church at Rome is to be called the Catholic or Roman Catholic Church? No, you can't.

Catholic speaks to the universal Church of Jesus Christ. Of which every believer is part of. They don't have to be part of the Church at Rome to be a part of the Universal or Catholic Church.

I don't believe I have ever denied being a Protestant. But a Protestant, if born-again, is part of the Catholic Church.

Stranger

Even the pope recognizes that churches outside the RCC have Christ in common. Not sure why BoL does not recognize this fact. His position reminds me of the Temple priests

 

[Stranger]

Even the pope recognizes that churches outside the RCC have Christ in common.

Yes, we Protestants are the 'separated brethren'.

Stranger

 

[aspen]

I know my faith was valid and that I was apart of the Body of Christ before I joined the RCC. I know my Baptism was valid before the joined the RCC. I know that my marriage was valid before I joined, as well. And all three were accepted.

Tribalism is about ego, not Christ. John 4:21 comes to mind

 

[aspen]

Vatican II was a necessary refocusing of the RCC and the council wisely included many Protestant theologians in the process. We are not enemies; we need to continue learning from each other.

 

[pia]

Oh goodness Pia.

You have resorted to calling me a liar. How sad.

You do know that what I said was to mjrhealth and not to you?

It seems you and mjrhealth have started your own church? You meet on a regular basis and talk about scripture? If so, would you be willing to tell me if it is just the two of you or do you meet with others?

I suspect you won't answer me. But that is ok. You have your church, I have mine.

Mary

We live approx 4000 km apart, so wrong again! Why are you still writing to me ? I reply to whatever posts get listed for me on the forum under my name

 

[pia]

Dear Pia,

I owe you a bit of an apology. The way you described the event with Jesus it sounded like a dream to me.

I misunderstood what you were describing. If it wasn't a dream, what was it?

I want to be clear. You, IMO, have not answered my questions. I still don't understand what you BELIEVE.

Mary

I'm done Mary. You have tried this trick with me before,or have you forgotten so soon.

 

[BreadOfLife]

All you have shown me is that the Roman Catholic Church is not to be found in Scripture. Instead it is a product over time of the wrong teaching of many in the Church.

Again, I have no problem with the Church being Catholic. It is Catholic. It just isn't Roman. Yours is Roman. The Universal Church is Catholic.

Stranger

Tell me something. With Ignatius writing at the beginning of the 2nd century to a Church far off (Smyrnaea) - how long do you think it took back then for a title to spread and become established?? There was no internet, no email, no snail mail, no newspapers, no 6:00 news - NOTHING but word of mouth.

This shows that the title used by Ignatius used, "The Catholic Church", was LONG established in the 1st century.
Was the Church that Christ built called "The Catholic Church" on Pentecost? Probably not. However, when the Apostles were alive, this became not just the description - but the TITLE of the Church - the SAME Catholic Church that exists today.

You can complain all you want but the paper trail and the history and the teachings are on OUR side.
All YOU can do is whine about it . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Even the pope recognizes that churches outside the RCC have Christ in common. Not sure why BoL does not recognize this fact. His position reminds me of the Temple priests

And now, you're lying again.

I have said over and over and over again that Protestants are non-Catholic CHRISTIANS.
Why do you find it necessary to lie instead of debating honestly??

In the document Dominus Iesus, St. John Paul II explained that Protestant "churches" were NOT churches, in the fullest definition of the word, but "ecclesial communities". He stressed that they were indeed Christians.

Not sure why you feel the need to lie so often . . .