Evolution vs. God ?

[bbyrd009]

Are you still a creationist?

.

"creation is continuous, and never stops" MFox

good Sabbath to all

 

[Job]

we imagine that to have been like an instantaneous event, bada-bing, when we accept that God created the universe, everything known to us (currently <5%) in billions of years. Then alla sudden God like wiggles His Nose or whatever and makes Adam and Eve. Arg

I told you before, my belief's regarding evolution have nothing to do with my belief's in God. I knew evolution was a hoax long before I even knew God existed.

Your posts are starting to sound like the atheists I used to debate.

k

 

[aspen]

Carnivorans evolved from miacoids about 55 million years ago (Mya) during the late Paleocene.[14] Some five million years later, the carnivorans split into two main divisions: caniforms (dog-like) and feliforms (cat-like). By 40 Mya, the first member of the dog family proper had arisen. Called Prohesperocyon wilsoni, its fossilized remains have been found in what is now the southwestern part of Texas. The chief features which identify it as a canid include the loss of the upper third molar (part of a trend toward a more shearing bite), and the structure of the middle ear which has an enlarged bulla (the hollow bony structure protecting the delicate parts of the ear). Prohesperocyon probably had slightly longer limbs than its predecessors, and also had parallel and closely touching toes which differ markedly from the splayed arrangements of the digits in bears.[15]

The canid family soon subdivided into three subfamilies, each of which diverged during the Eocene: Hesperocyoninae (about 39.74–15 Mya), Borophaginae (about 34–2 Mya), and Caninae (about 34–0 Mya). Caninae is the only surviving subfamily and all present-day canids including wolves, foxes, coyotes, jackals, and domestic dogs belong to it. Members of each subfamily showed an increase in body mass with time, and some exhibited specialized hypercarnivorous diets that made them prone to extinction.[16]:Fig. 1

Common ancestor of foxes, cats, and dogs is miacods

 

[twinc]

Are you still a creationist?

.

yes, of course. most certainly - twinc

 

[twinc]

Carnivorans evolved from miacoids about 55 million years ago (Mya) during the late Paleocene.[14] Some five million years later, the carnivorans split into two main divisions: caniforms (dog-like) and feliforms (cat-like). By 40 Mya, the first member of the dog family proper had arisen. Called Prohesperocyon wilsoni, its fossilized remains have been found in what is now the southwestern part of Texas. The chief features which identify it as a canid include the loss of the upper third molar (part of a trend toward a more shearing bite), and the structure of the middle ear which has an enlarged bulla (the hollow bony structure protecting the delicate parts of the ear). Prohesperocyon probably had slightly longer limbs than its predecessors, and also had parallel and closely touching toes which differ markedly from the splayed arrangements of the digits in bears.[15]

The canid family soon subdivided into three subfamilies, each of which diverged during the Eocene: Hesperocyoninae (about 39.74–15 Mya), Borophaginae (about 34–2 Mya), and Caninae (about 34–0 Mya). Caninae is the only surviving subfamily and all present-day canids including wolves, foxes, coyotes, jackals, and domestic dogs belong to it. Members of each subfamily showed an increase in body mass with time, and some exhibited specialized hypercarnivorous diets that made them prone to extinction.[16]:Fig. 1

Common ancestor of foxes, cats, and dogs is miacods

loads and loads of rubbish = no millions of years ago = milllions of years in an expanding/stretched out Universe the shrinking/shrunken sun would have been bigger and closer and the moon nearer = no life possible = only red hot cinders/embers and scalding steam - twinc

 

[aspen]

loads and loads of rubbish = no millions of years ago = milllions of years in an expanding/stretched out Universe the shrinking/shrunken sun would have been bigger and closer and the moon nearer = no life possible = only red hot cinders/embers and scalding steam - twinc

Ah....facts be damned! Much better to follow the teachings of a Catholic monk who decided to count the years laid out in the Bible - what is it again....6,000?

 

[bbyrd009]

I knew evolution was a hoax long before I even knew God existed.

well, apparently Darwin would agree, at least on some level. I have no doubts that evolution is seized upon and abused, and distorted for personal gain, same as God ok.

 

[bbyrd009]

I knew evolution was a hoax long before I even knew God existed.

i knew that deciding i know anything in that area would just engender another belief that i would no doubt become compelled to defend, and would have no other effect on my daily life whatsoever, and i have not been disappointed yet by not knowing, myself.

imo a lot of this insistence by Christians on knowing things about the past is to bolster a belief about what is supposedly known about the future, all derived from Scripture, Which assures us that we do not know.

So then, if beliefs have any function, it seems that they are more often impediments to truth (God) than accessories to it. I guess this maybe sounds weird, but ridding myself of pointless beliefs about the past or the future has been quite liberating. It is another cliff i had to step off of though, because these are mental anchors that help us feel grounded or whatever...but to me it was a necessary component of change your mind.

 

[bbyrd009]

Your posts are starting to sound like the atheists I used to debate.

ha well imo atheists are just fundamentals in diff clothes...but surely they are as certain of evo as you are not, isn't that true? When i must insist that i don't know, but i certainly see no reason why God could not have programmed change/improvement into our genes that plays out as what we call evolution.

If the chief objections are based upon interpretations of "God made Adam of the dust of the earth," and one or two others, then one might even expect the religious pov here to eventually line up with reality, whatever that is, same as Copernicus was resolved?

i mean, if the Image of God is

and/or

what are we even arguing about, right

 

[DPMartin]

i mean, if the Image of God is "a Picture of space"

what are we even arguing about, right

wrong that is your image of your idol, God is the Creator not the created. your image is no different then the idols of old. their idols were made up of things created, so is yours.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, addressing the PO. the title should be "Evolution with GOD" and not "Evolution vs. God?".
here's the reason why I say this, Genesis 1:11 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so". Genesis 1:20 "And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven". did one see it? it was the earth, (land), and it was the earth (water) that bring forth. God created but he allowed, or gave power to the Earth (land and water) to bring forth. this whole earth have been evolving under God command and control, materially and in organism, complex or not. materially first. I have always wondered why radio was invented before, and evolved into TV. and why 45 records before CD's and tapes. but in all the medium is the same. why AM evolved or improved into FM. B & W TV evolved, or improved into color TV. that's with material objects, but with large organism as with animals, I understand microevolution, and macroevolution. Microevolution is evolutionary change within a species or small group of organisms, especially over a short period". now that's adaptation, meaning the medium is the same. I can go with that. but macroevolution? a major evolutionary change. the evolution of whole taxonomic groups over long periods of time". no, I can't go with that. I can go with small variation, as in adaptation, but that's still within the species as many have said. but a dog to a whale, or as some scientist say cows to whales NO.

so, I do believe in evolution by GOD design, meaning in Variation. Oh the different variety of apples, granny and all. or the different variety of grasses and herbs. it's one thing the scriptures is clear about, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made".

 

[bbyrd009]

wrong that is your image of your idol, God is the Creator not the created. your image is no different then the idols of old. their idols were made up of things created, so is yours.

well ty for your opinion there, we are said to be made in God's image, and we are after all made up of cells, so while i do not profess to know--and apparently you are professing that you do know--it seems as valid a pov as any.

you are welcome imo to be God in your own mind if you like tho, seems like a popular pastime around here.

 

[Job]

So then, if beliefs have any function, it seems that they are more often impediments to truth (God) than accessories to it.

Evolution denies the Creator. It is a lie. How can exposing that lie be an impediment to the truth?

l

 

[bbyrd009]

Evolution denies the Creator. It is a lie. How can exposing that lie be an impediment to the truth?

l

hmm, i understand that many think evolution denies God--chiefly evolutionists (or atheists iow) and fundamentalists, i guess, but from a religious standpoint what are the objections? Aren't they chiefly that from the pov of the religion, a few key passages of Genesis are being denied somehow? As near as i can tell at least.

Iow how does evo deny God, in your opinion? All i can ever seem to get is definitive statements, never any support for the statements. It becomes like this "John was the disciple whom Jesus loved" thing--everyone says it, but no one can quote it lol.

Another way to put the Q might be, do you believe Adam was created in the blink of an eye? Meaning our eye? Or no? And do you believe that if enough people believe that, then that is what God has to have done? Is that the standard now? What if we just don't understand the passage correctly?

 

[bbyrd009]

Evolution denies the Creator.

see, this is a "belief" you have, that may or may not be true, that might prevent you from seeing the truth whenever it does become apparent--if ever. But most often what seems to happen is that you do not of course know anything for certain, and so (you, one) become afraid to even look.

Next thing you know, Copernicus is being excommunicated for stating truths that are perceived to be "denying the Creator," see.

 

[Job]

see, this is a "belief" you have, that may or may not be true, that might prevent you from seeing the truth whenever it does become apparent--if ever. But most often what seems to happen is that you do not of course know anything for certain, and so (you, one) become afraid to even look.

Next thing you know, Copernicus is being excommunicated for stating truths that are perceived to be "denying the Creator," see.

You still don't get it.


m

 

[aspen]

well, apparently Darwin would agree, at least on some level. I have no doubts that evolution is seized upon and abused, and distorted for personal gain, same as God ok.

Pop-evolution and pop-religion are distortions created by those who are convinced of their own understanding

 

[DPMartin]

well ty for your opinion there, we are said to be made in God's image, and we are after all made up of cells, so while i do not profess to know--and apparently you are professing that you do know--it seems as valid a pov as any.

you are welcome imo to be God in your own mind if you like tho, seems like a popular pastime around here.

I realize that what you think is what you believe the rest of the world and reality revolves around, but you are incorrect on all counts in your statements and views. its not one's own judgment that matters as you have just shown you believe, its what God truly is and His Judgment that existence revolves around.

you think to tell Christians about their beliefs that you have no clue of. Jesus states that God is a Spirit, therefore flesh or cell that are made have nothing to do with His Image. also man isn't in His image if men seek to do wickedness constantly, that image and likeness was lost with Adam and Eve. and then restored in Christ Jesus.

it seems you believe what tv programs tell you about things, especially Christianity, you forget, media is for propaganda in the interest of those who control it. so you seem to be foolish enough to argue for what ever some tv employee is willing to say to you for his master the tv exec.

 

[bbyrd009]

Pop-evolution and pop-religion are distortions created by those who are convinced of their own understanding

that is kind of my take on it too; that either position is likely too extreme in one regard or other, and that the adherents to either one are it seems like a little too insistent about knowing...something? But i can't ever get to exactly what.

i'm open minded here, i would even accept an anecdotal answer or whatever, it's not like there could be a "wrong" answer to something that caused an impression to be made. I believe in God, why don't i perceive evolution as a threat?

Alternately, for all i know God relies on evolution as a mechanism for change; in fact, it seems rather obvious even, even if it might be hard to validate in the moment, being a function of time, eras of time.

Name something that does not evolve over time, lol. Imo that would be harder. Now how far that extends i don't know, but if it turns out that God really did evolve humans from a common ancestor with apes, then so what?

Why does that flip people out so much? Because it does not comport with their beliefs, is the only reason i can find.

 

[bbyrd009]

therefore flesh or cell that are made have nothing to do with His Image.

yes, that is true from a perspective, but we also acknowledge the majesty of God in the heavens, and Adam was created "in God's image." So this strikes me as something we would be expected to reflect upon, and you cannot say that "flesh or cell that are made have nothing to do with His Image" with any certainty, because you do not know that God did not leave some imprint upon them, and i suggest that He almost certainly did.

God is expressed in everything, almost surely