Sola Fide

[bbyrd009]

I think 'heaven' is different than we think.

ha no kidding there, we have been massively scribed to believe all of that only applies after one dies, talk about a thief in the night. The kingdom of heaven is right beside you, right now. God is God of the living, not the dead!

 

[Marymog]

I honestly don't know. I have considered the question, seen scripture on both sides, and have never came up with a solid answer. I hope so... But I don't have anything that has compelled me to come to a conclusion.

So this is your point. Would you actually like to make a point?

I am trying to have a dialogue (conversation) with you. Sometimes long rambling post can be confusing.

What about children who die before the age of reason? Let's say at the age of 10? Do they go to heaven?

Can a non-Christian go to heaven?

I feel like my point is pretty clear

Sincer Mary

 

[H. Richard]

I am trying to have a dialogue (conversation) with you. Sometimes long rambling post can be confusing.

What about children who die before the age of reason? Let's say at the age of 10? Do they go to heaven?

Can a non-Christian go to heaven?

I feel like my point is pretty clear

Sincer Mary

***
It seems to me that man tries to put God in man's position. Man would love to be able to say God will not kill children. But God is the judge of mankind. I don't remember a scripture that says the children of Sodom were spared from God's wrath. Nor do I find that men's children in the day of Noah were spared.

 

[Marymog]

They have no sin...so yes thy do.
I think 'heaven' is different than we think.
I believe they are growing before the Lord. I don't believe that it is a place where 'nothing happens', I believe the angels have their ministry and maybe the lead the little souls into maturity. Or, maybe a baby soul is a complete soul and is mature instantly.
What surprises we will all have finding out hope close or far away we are from truth! lol
Why I believe that I have no idea...I just do. I have no scripture quotes either!

Hi ByGrace,

I think they go to heaven also. Since they didn't have "faith" to get to heaven then I guess one can get to heaven without "faith alone"? I think they had grace.

Mary

 

[Armadillo]

I don't remember a scripture that says the children of Sodom were spared from God's wrath. Nor do I find that men's children in the day of Noah were spared.

But weren't the children spared in Nineveh?

 

[Armadillo]

hmm, they don't?

If doctrines do appear, show me. Post 92 has the scriptures to prove that doctrines don't appear. Do doctrines have a face? There was a face for the "doctrine" of Grace but Grace isn't a doctrine.

 

[Helen]

But weren't the children spared in Nineveh?

If I remember rightly, they even put sack cloth and ashes on the cattle..
Nineveh repented....God saved everyone.
Thats why we have the end bit of the story, where Jonah sat and sulked under the vine..in the shade, God killed the vine so Jonah had no shade..he was then really angry. :) God had told him to preach judgement, but on repentance they were not judged at all!
Maybe he knew the heart of a merciful God, so he ran away twice because he didn't want to be a prophet , and we get the Bog Fish story.
I've always felt sorry for Jonah, great story.
Some people say that we have free will.
Good picture here how God didn't "make" him go, or make him preach...but with the storm , shipwreck, and the the Big Fish episode... God just made him 'willing' to go!

Maybe he was a better prophet than we even think...maybe he knew the ending, that Nineveh would repent..I had never thought of that possibility before!! No wonder he didn't want to go, or appear to be a false prophet by crying out for days... "Three day and Nineveh will be overthrown."

 

[Helen]

not in the manner taught to us, because they never left the kingdom of God, having not fallen yet. As infants do not commit sins might indicate. An infant has not gotten as far as "Law" yet, right, so if you just follow the passages about how those who never attained Law are treated, that would apply to infants also. No Law, no sin.

Great post...never quite seen it that way before...good one!!

 

[bbyrd009]

If doctrines do appear, show me.

surely we are having a semantics argument, and i am just misunderstanding then, but Magic Hair, the Mark of Cain--to avoid the touchier ones--etc, the doctrines of men, these did not "appear?"

 

[bbyrd009]

Do doctrines have a face?

hmm well they have a spirit, and a "face" can be put on them, yes, but in a manner of speaking

 

[bbyrd009]

Maybe he was a better prophet than we even think...maybe he knew the ending, that Nineveh would repent..

i think this is even in the account, ya, that he did not like the Ninevites or something

 

[FHII]

Hi ByGrace,

I think they go to heaven also. Since they didn't have "faith" to get to heaven then I guess one can get to heaven without "faith alone"? I think they had grace.

Mary

Sounds like you are saying we don't need faith at all.

 

[Helen]

Sounds like you are saying we don't need faith at all.

I think I understand what she is saying. A baby doesn't need faith in God, it has no concept of God or sin at that point.
I know we are all born under the taint of Adam...yet God is a good and Just God...the blood of Jesus was enough for any baby. They just couldn't acknowledge it.
And, as they had not sinned, their name was NOT blotted out of the Lamb's Book Of Life.
Interested to hear what you say. Do YOU feel a baby needs faith to "go to heaven" , or be saved?

 

[FHII]

I think I understand what she is saying. A baby doesn't need faith in God, it has no concept of God or sin at that point.
I know we are all born under the taint of Adam...yet God is a good and Just God...the blood of Jesus was enough for any baby. They just couldn't acknowledge it.
And, as they had not sinned, their name was NOT blotted out of the Lamb's Book Of Life.
Interested to hear what you say. Do YOU feel a baby needs faith to "go to heaven" , or be saved?

Bygrace,

If you read her post she extended the point that infants don't need faith to grown ups. Albiet in a very weird way. Since infants don't need faith we don't need faith alone. Weird reasoning.

You can read what i said about the subje t in post #90. In short, i dont know.

 

[Marymog]

Sounds like you are saying we don't need faith at all.

FHII,

I have never said that. I have actually said opposite of that. It starts with faith....for a Christian.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Bygrace,

If you read her post she extended the point that infants don't need faith to grown ups. Albiet in a very weird way. Since infants don't need faith we don't need faith alone. Weird reasoning.
You can read what i said about the subje t in post #90. In short, i dont know.

FHII,

How is that "weird reasoning"? You are saying faith alone gets you into heaven. Infants don't have faith and I believe, like most people, they go to heaven.

Since you are indecisive about the salvation of infants we will move on.

What about children who die before the age of reason? Let's say at the arbitrary age of 10? Some people say 13-15 yoa. Do they go to heaven?

Can a non-Christian go to heaven?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

not in the manner taught to us, because they never left the kingdom of God, having not fallen yet. As infants do not commit sins might indicate. An infant has not gotten as far as "Law" yet, right, so if you just follow the passages about how those who never attained Law are treated, that would apply to infants also. No Law, no sin.

Dear sir,

When does an infant stop being an infant? What age?

Mary

 

[FHII]

FHII,

I have never said that. I have actually said opposite of that. It starts with faith....for a Christian.

Mary

This is what you said:

I think they go to heaven also. Since they didn't have "faith" to get to heaven then I guess one can get to heaven without "faith alone"? I think they had grace.

How is that the opposite of what I said?

Sounds like you are saying we don't need faith at all.

and....

If you read her post she extended the point that infants don't need faith to grown ups. Albiet in a very weird way. Since infants don't need faith we don't need faith alone.

For you to say the oppsite, you would have to say we do need faith.

Faith alone.... I seem to remember you saying we need faith plus works. Well.... Unless you want to call a poopy diaper a work, infants haven't done any works either.

 

[FHII]

What about children who die before the age of reason? Let's say at the arbitrary age of 10? Some people say 13-15 yoa. Do they go to heaven?

Can a non-Christian go to heaven?

It really sounds like you are building up to no one needing faith to go to heaven.

The same thing applies to the adolescents as to infants. Are you not trying to say the don't need faith either? Again... I don't know the answer myself. I hope they do but I don't have any concrete answer for the whole age of accountability question. Neither do you other than thats what you believe.

Did you know that 2 bears killed 32 children for making fun of the Man of God's bald head? Just thought I'd throw that in there....

But now you want to know if a non-Christain to go to heaven?!?!

Are you sure you aren't saying we don't need faith?

 

[Marymog]

It really sounds like you are building up to no one needing faith to go to heaven.

The same thing applies to the adolescents as to infants. Are you not trying to say the don't need faith either? Again... I don't know the answer myself. I hope they do but I don't have any concrete answer for the whole age of accountability question. Neither do you other than thats what you believe.

Did you know that 2 bears killed 32 children for making fun of the Man of God's bald head? Just thought I'd throw that in there....

But now you want to know if a non-Christain to go to heaven?!?!

Are you sure you aren't saying we don't need faith?

Dear FHII,

I don't know how much clearer I can be. I will try one more time. It takes more than faith alone to obtain salvation.

We are having a dialogue. When I write to you and put a question at the end of a sentence that means I want to know what YOU think. I already know what I think about it. SO I ASK AGAIN:

Can a non-Christian go to heaven?

Mary