Sola Fide

[bbyrd009]

Dear sir,

Where is your scripture to back up your theory? Or is this just another one of those "IMO's"?

ah well if you will notice that your daughter previously had "faith,"

I have a daughter who is 28 years old who has FAITH but none of her actions show it. If I, Marymog, have personally experienced this then there are probably AT LEAST a million more people in the world who have had the same experience with their own children.

It has been my experience that your statement is 100% false.

whereas now she does not, because we have refined the semantics, i'm no longer sure what statement of mine is false, so you'll have to rephrase it if you would

 

[bbyrd009]

She has FAITH but limited or VERY FEW actions.

oh she has faith alright, everyone has faith in what they are doing. which is why i say what one does advertises their faith.

but imo we are mostly having a semantics discussion now, in agreement iow

 

[bbyrd009]

Faith WILL NOT cause a change of mind.

i would say that belief will not, whereas faith will, but ok

 

[bbyrd009]

It takes MORE than faith.

then what is the word for this more, i am amenable :)

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you agree with each other?

mostly in raised voices, yes :)

 

[bbyrd009]

If you trust a person, you will follow what they say or teach.

"believe nothing, not even if you heard it from me, unless it fits with your own..." yada yada, lol

 

[bbyrd009]

The way he writes

ya, sorry about that, it is me, all i can say is it has improved i think, @Pisteuo would know better i guess

 

[GodsGrace]

My point is what "action" is good enough for Him?

Some did prophesy and cast out demons in His name and do many mighty works in your name. But that action wasn't good enough. He still said, depart from me, I never knew you.

Maybe BB and I are agreeing and I just don't know it. They way he writes is VERY confusing. When I re-read his post (#147) I think maybe we are agreeing? The way he writes, with incomplete sentences and misspelled words and incomplete sentence structures, makes his statements very confusing to me.

Mary

Perhaps because those in Mathew 7:21 were false prophets as Jesus quotes in Mathew 7:15.

They did good works, but were the good works for God?
No. Because Jesus said that the tree would be known by its fruit...
Not JUST BECAUSE someone says, "I did this for you".

Works are needed, but they must be done with Faith in Jesus.

 

[GodsGrace]

"believe nothing, not even if you heard it from me, unless it fits with your own..." yada yada, lol

Do you not believe what Jesus taught?
I'm speaking of Jesus, of course.
If you have FAITH in Jesus
you will do what JESUS says.

This, BTW, is true of ANY person you believe in.

 

[Helen]

dunno about proof, i have mostly stopped looking for proofs of things, and tend to see peoples' stated beliefs in terms of expressions of their character, or heart.
So iow i am skepticla of Christians who insist upon faith alone; yet faith alone is all that is required--as long as one understands that faith will cause a change of mind, and a change of actions, which generally seems to be absent, and even resisted.

Amen!!! Very good balance between the two...that is what I mean when I mention that "Grace has accountability" ....* same with Faith...if faith does not show change...it is a very ' baby' faith.
Some Christians do take the first step...but never the second or learn to toddle, let alone walk as mature son!

 

[bbyrd009]

ya, sorry about that, it is me, all i can say is it has improved i think, @Pisteuo would know better i guess

when i make it grammatically perfect it gets ruined, so my apologies

 

[Marymog]

Perhaps because those in Mathew 7:21 were false prophets as Jesus quotes in Mathew 7:15.

They did good works, but were the good works for God?
No. Because Jesus said that the tree would be known by its fruit...
Not JUST BECAUSE someone says, "I did this for you".

Works are needed, but they must be done with Faith in Jesus.

Hi GG,

You make very good points. Thank you.

You ask: Were the good works for God?

That's tough. Anyone that can cast out demons in His name and do many mighty works in His name seems like they would be doing it FOR God. And I suspect they could not do it WITHOUT God. So I really don't know what to say. Were the works FOR God? I think so.

Mary

 

[Pisteuo]

ya, sorry about that, it is me, all i can say is it has improved i think, @Pisteuo would know better i guess

Improved for sure. But there wasn't much room for regression, lol. ;)

 

[Marymog]

then what is the word for this more, i am amenable :)

I thought you already agreed to this in a previous post?

GRACE...among other things.

Confused Mary

 

[Marymog]

dunno about proof, i have mostly stopped looking for proofs of things, and tend to see peoples' stated beliefs in terms of expressions of their character, or heart. So iow i am skepticla of Christians who insist upon faith alone; yet faith alone is all that is required--as long as one understands that faith will cause a change of mind, and a change of actions, which generally seems to be absent, and even resisted.

We are not talking about "peoples' stated beliefs in terms of expressions of their character, or heart".

We are talking about babies being saved thru grace. You already agreed that infants have souls and when they die it is by grace that they go to heaven since they didn't have the opportunity to have faith. Then you say you don't know about proof but you know that infants go to heaven is true? What is your proof that infants go to heaven? But you don't know about proof?????

OMG....You have me so confused I don't know what to say anymore. Maybe I am just not understanding you. Is English your first language?(I don't mean that in a bad way. I am just trying to connect with you or understand you better)

Confused Mary

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi GG,

You make very good points. Thank you.

You ask: Were the good works for God?

That's tough. Anyone that can cast out demons in His name and do many mighty works in His name seems like they would be doing it FOR God. And I suspect they could not do it WITHOUT God. So I really don't know what to say. Were the works FOR God? I think so.

Mary

Mary,
I'm signing off and I hope I can find this Tomorrow morning!
This is interesting...
Mathew 7:13-23

verses 13-14
Enter thru the narrow gate. Few find the narrow gate. We must enter as God defined the terms, not as some Others may and they will be wrong.
Such as the false Teachers coming up...

verses 15-16
Be careful of false prophets - Teachers. They're nice looking in sheep's clothing, they treat you nice but inside they're Dangerous and treacherous as wolves.
You'll know them by thier fruit. Grapes do not come from thorn bushes.
IOW, it's their actions that will count, not what they say. Their character will count, not their fake smiles.

verse 17-18
Good prophets, or Teachers will produce good fruit. The end result will be good. What they teach will produce good results.

verse 19-20
Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and burned.

verses 21-23
Not everyone who says Lord Lord, but those honest prophets that did the WILL OF THE FATHER will enter the Kingdom.
Even the false prophets will say Lord Lord, but they could fool the people, but they cannot fool God. They were FALSE prophets and were not working for God. They were working for other reasons. Many today teach incorrect doctrine because it fills ups the church, for instance.
These will not enter into the Kingdom.

Many today prophecy, tell the future, and do all sorts of things but are not doing them in the name of God (and even some who say they are, really are not) after all, there is another power at work...the enemy.

Comments?
Tomorrow...

 

[Marymog]

Mary,
I'm signing off and I hope I can find this Tomorrow morning!
This is interesting...
Mathew 7:13-23

verses 13-14
Enter thru the narrow gate. Few find the narrow gate. We must enter as God defined the terms, not as some Others may and they will be wrong.
Such as the false Teachers coming up...

verses 15-16
Be careful of false prophets - Teachers. They're nice looking in sheep's clothing, they treat you nice but inside they're Dangerous and treacherous as wolves.
You'll know them by thier fruit. Grapes do not come from thorn bushes.
IOW, it's their actions that will count, not what they say. Their character will count, not their fake smiles.

verse 17-18
Good prophets, or Teachers will produce good fruit. The end result will be good. What they teach will produce good results.

verse 19-20
Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and burned.

verses 21-23
Not everyone who says Lord Lord, but those honest prophets that did the WILL OF THE FATHER will enter the Kingdom.
Even the false prophets will say Lord Lord, but they could fool the people, but they cannot fool God. They were FALSE prophets and were not working for God. They were working for other reasons. Many today teach incorrect doctrine because it fills ups the church, for instance.
These will not enter into the Kingdom.

Many today prophecy, tell the future, and do all sorts of things but are not doing them in the name of God (and even some who say they are, really are not) after all, there is another power at work...the enemy.

Comments?
Tomorrow...

The only comment I have is a question:

How do we know who are the honest/good prophets or teachers? How do we know who the false teachers are?

Joel Osteen?
Pope Francis?
Martin Luther?
Roger Williams?
Fred Phelps?
John Calvin?
Pierre Ameaux?

You have your teachers. I have mine. Are yours honest and good or are mine?

Love Mary

 

[H. Richard]

The children of God have the best teacher indwelling in them. He is the Holy Spirit. People make a big mistake when they do not see that the Holy Spirit teaches by revelation just as He taught Paul. But they have to have Him indwelling in them and listen. But religious type people listen to men who may or may not have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them.

 

[bbyrd009]

I thought you already agreed to this in a previous post?

GRACE...among other things.

Confused Mary

ah, well grace is not something i would have considered being necessary to an individual's changing their mind, but i have to agree, as i would surely been kicked off any other site by now, were it not for grace, and i have to say that made quite an impression. I've always thought of what Catholics seem to have down as forgiveness, but a better term would be grace i guess, ya.

 

[bbyrd009]

We are not talking about "peoples' stated beliefs in terms of expressions of their character, or heart".

We are talking about babies being saved thru grace.

oh, sorry, thought you were done with that horse :)

You already agreed that infants have souls and when they die it is by grace that they go to heaven since they didn't have the opportunity to have faith.

now this would be grace more as i am used to contemplating it, that being like directly from God, but tbh it was the other one that had a bigger impression on me. i am not the most graceful of people lol

so yes, if you believe that people go to heaven when they die, then surely it would be by God's Grace. Personally i do not believe that, but we are talking beliefs now, and while i am suspicious of this "going to heaven" for people who from what i read were given the earth forever as their domain, i also understand that that would not sell very well as a product.

which might sound cynical or whatever, but i don't mean it that way. churches have been an invaluable stage of ing...eating Scripture, at least for me, and as far as i am concerned the system we have is perfect.