Little lies & secrets

[Josho]

This should be an interesting discussion, is lying alright to protect someone else? What about to get out of a dangerous situation? Or what if it's just lying to avoid a trip to the doctor? Or a secret about your health, like eye or hearing problems, that you have never been honest about with others because of being embarrassed by it? Or what about a lie to hide your weakness? Or what about lying to keep secrets?

These are tough ones for some people, and yes i sometimes struggle in this area over some little things. To be honest I am embarrassed to admit that I am short-sighted to some people, but thank God for contact lenses haha, and i don't like anything written negative on my health records, drivers license, etc. And I'm not always honest when I'm not feeling right.

So is it ever okay to lie? Is it okay to lie to keep secrets?

 

[Dcopymope]

This should be an interesting discussion, is lying alright to protect someone else? What about to get out of a dangerous situation? Or what if it's just lying to avoid a trip to the doctor? Or a secret about your health, like eye or hearing problems, that you have never been honest about with others because of being embarrassed by it? Or what about a lie to hide your weakness? Or what about lying to keep secrets?

These are tough ones for some people, and yes i sometimes struggle in this area over some little things. To be honest I am embarrassed to admit that I am short-sighted to some people, but thank God for contact lenses haha, and i don't like anything written negative on my health records, drivers license, etc. And I'm not always honest when I'm not feeling right.

So is it ever okay to lie? Is it okay to lie to keep secrets?

In a perfect world, like the one before the fall and the world to come with the Lords return, there wouldn't be a need to lie. We live in a fallen dog eat dog world, so therefore, sometimes telling the 'truth' won't always be in your best interests or anyone elses. Notions of 'honor' and 'honesty' can cause you a good deal of harm in this world.

After all, the truth is what got Jesus beaten within an inch of his life, nailed to a wooden cross and shanked with a spear. If it wasn't meant to happen for the sake of our salvation, we would be calling this a terrible ordeal, and it wouldn't have pleased God to have his own son to be afflicted for our sake. We are in Satans kingdom who is the father of lies. Anyone pretending to uphold 'truth' as if they are above board is as big a liar as the Devil, and the truth is not within them.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It has been my observation and experience in life...lies destroy.

I read this yesterday and it spoke in a way it never has before of what we are called to be:
2 Corinthians 4:1-4 KJV
[1] Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; [2] But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. [3] But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: [4] In whom the god of this world(is that a little g?) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 John 2:11 KJV
[11] But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Little lies lead to big lies. That is not who we are called to be. Protecting people from the truth is no kind of protection. Truth is hard. Sometimes impossible...but needed.

 

[Dcopymope]

It has been my observation and experience in life...lies destroy.

I read this yesterday and it spoke in a way it never has before of what we are called to be:
2 Corinthians 4:1-4 KJV
[1] Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; [2] But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. [3] But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: [4] In whom the god of this world(is that a little g?) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 John 2:11 KJV
[11] But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Little lies lead to big lies. That is not who we are called to be. Protecting people from the truth is no kind of protection. Truth is hard. Sometimes impossible...but needed.

Protecting people from what truth? The gospel or "truth" in general? If its the latter, then I'd rather tell a lie if being truthful results in my life being ruined. If it isn't for the word of God, then it isn't worth it, which is the truth the scripture's you cited are referring to.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Protecting people from what truth? The gospel or "truth" in general? If its the latter, then I'd rather tell a lie if being truthful results in my life being ruined. If it isn't for the word of God, then it isn't worth it, which is the truth the scripture's you cited are referring to.

First, can you give an example of how truth could ruin a life? What truth would you be willing to withhold to protect a person from it?

 

[Dcopymope]

First, can you give an example of how truth could ruin a life? What truth would you be willing to withhold to protect a person from it?

OK, lets say you are working as an undercover FBI agent. If you really believe telling the truth won't ruin your life, then blow your cover and give them your real name. Forget about your alias, you know, the lie given to you to protect your identity and henceforth your life. Will telling the "truth" really work out for you in this scenario, or will the lie? I can give about a dozen different examples of why lying can be in your best interest, but I really shouldn't have to. I'm sure you are well aware of the kind of world you are living in.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

OK, lets say you are working as an undercover FBI agent. If you really believe telling the truth won't ruin your life, then blow your cover and them your real name. Forget about your alias, you know, the lie given to you to protect your identity and henceforth your life. Will telling the "truth" really work out for you in this scenario, or will the lie? I can give about a dozen different examples of why lying can be in your best interest, but I really shouldn't have to. I'm sure you are well aware of the kind of world you are living in.

Ok. I see your point. Good one. And yes, I am well aware of the world we live in.


I mean, Truth pertaining to God's truth. I DO NOT mean nick-picking and belittling a person, not that kind of truth based off opinion. I will give you a for instance:

a good friend of mine lost her only daughter to addiction. The guy with her daughter when she died; bathed her daughter to remove the puke, dressed her in clean clothes,and cleaned up the room before calling the paramedics. My friend was told her daughter would have lived if her boyfriend would have called when she first aspirated. It has been three years and my friend still thinks of running the boyfriend over with her car. She hates him and that he walks free. Bitterness eats her up. She has lost a job she had for over twenty-years. Drinks every night to forget. She sits on my couch and sobs, drowning in her hatred for this boy. God has placed him in her path multiple times. Why she asks, "why does God keep putting me around this guy?"


Truth? Forgiveness...and don't think that was easy to tell her. She ignored me the first couple of times it was said. The last thing she wanted to hear was: God wants you to offer this boy forgiveness. I am convinced forgiveness will not only free my friend, but this boy may see Christ, and also my friends husband who doubts there is a God after seeing his only daughter lifeless, may see Christ in a profound way.


My friend was in agony in the face of truth. She cussed and said it isn't fair...that forgiveness is impossible! Alone, yes. With Christ anything is possible. She went home to pray for the guy. Her words, not mine. That is bearing the image of Christ. That is the truth I mean.

 

[Dcopymope]

Ok. I see your point. Good one. And yes, I am well aware of the world we live in.


I mean, Truth pertaining to God's truth. I DO NOT mean nick-picking and belittling a person, not that kind of truth based off opinion. I will give you a for instance:

a good friend of mine lost her only daughter to addiction. The guy with her daughter when she died; bathed her daughter to remove the puke, dressed her in clean clothes,and cleaned up the room before calling the paramedics. My friend was told her daughter would have lived if her boyfriend would have called when she first aspirated. It has been three years and my friend still thinks of running the boyfriend over with her car. She hates him and that he walks free. Bitterness eats her up. She has lost a job she had for over twenty-years. Drinks every night to forget. She sits on my couch and sobs, drowning in her hatred for this boy. God has placed him in her path multiple times. Why she asks, "why does God keep putting me around this guy?"


Truth? Forgiveness...and don't think that was easy to tell her. She ignored me the first couple of times it was said. The last thing she wanted to hear was: God wants you to offer this boy forgiveness. I am convinced forgiveness will not only free my friend, but this boy may see Christ, and also my friends husband who doubts there is a God after seeing his only daughter lifeless, may see Christ is a profound way.


My friend was in agony in the face of truth. She cussed and said it isn't fair...that forgiveness is impossible! Alone, yes. With Christ anything is possible. She went home to pray the guy. Her words, not mine. That is bearing the image of Christ. That is the truth I mean.

Well of course, this is a good example of truth as it pertains to the word of God concerning forgiveness. I would have went a little further and told her of her eventual fate if she refused to forgive and move on in life. Did you give her the following verse?

(Mark 11:24-26) "Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. {25} And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. {26} But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."

If people really want to be as stubborn as your friend, I'll just be blunt with them and tell them they can either do something about it and deal with those who wronged them like your friend wanted to do, or forgive those who trespass against them and mush on in life. The fate of your salvation depends on it. This isn't even what the subject of this thread is about though, at least not just. Josho was referring to sticking to "truth" in general in any given situation, which will not work out for you in this world. If you aren't telling the truth to give God the glory, then you are doing it for your own sake and glory, which doesn't prove anything but your own haughtiness, the pride of life within you that God hates.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This isn't even what the subject of this thread is about though, at least not just. Josho was referring to sticking to "truth" in general in any given situation, which will not work out for you in this world. If you aren't telling the truth to give God the glory, then you are doing it for your own sake and glory, which doesn't prove anything but your own haughtiness, the pride of life within you that God hates.

You are right. I am wrong. Depends on the motive I guess: if truth is truly for another person, or self.

No. I recommended she read:
Matthew 18:23-35 KJV
[23] Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. [24] And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. [25] But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. [26] The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [27] Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. [28] But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. [29] And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [30] And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. [31] So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. [32] Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: [33] Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? [34] And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. [35] So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

 

[lforrest]

This should be an interesting discussion, is lying alright to protect someone else? What about to get out of a dangerous situation? Or what if it's just lying to avoid a trip to the doctor? Or a secret about your health, like eye or hearing problems, that you have never been honest about with others because of being embarrassed by it? Or what about a lie to hide your weakness? Or what about lying to keep secrets?

These are tough ones for some people, and yes i sometimes struggle in this area over some little things. To be honest I am embarrassed to admit that I am short-sighted to some people, but thank God for contact lenses haha, and i don't like anything written negative on my health records, drivers license, etc. And I'm not always honest when I'm not feeling right.

So is it ever okay to lie? Is it okay to lie to keep secrets?

Good questions.

I try to follow God's example for telling the truth. He never lies, but he also doesn't always tell us everything. Sometimes he will speak in riddles to keep the truth from some.
Ever heard of lying by omission? It is an unbiblical concept. Does God lie by omission when he doesn't tell us something? Though there could be a prior social arrangement where your obligated to tell a superior something. But you are not obligated to tell people things that are none of their business.

God also obfuscates things by speaking spirituality, so I don't see why we can't do the same.

 

[FHII]

I never lie. Whoops! Darn it, that was my first one ever!

And there was my second!

People inadvertently lie every day. They look in their closet and say I don't have a thing to wear (while stairing at all their clothes). They say they are bored and don't have anything to do. The begger on the street asks for money to buy food while standing in front of the liquor store and are toldby those that they ask, "i don't have any money".

How about lipstick, blush, hairdye and stuff like that? Not technically a lie but it is making yourself look different.

Those aren't the type being discussed. I just bring them up to point out they are there even though they are harmless as far as I can see.

Overall its a good idea not to lie and even better to stay out of situations that make lying seem convienent.

When it comes to worship and doctrine, though, even small lies can be serious.

 

[Helen]

@FHII Good answer. And very true.


======================

What about when we in faith confess who we are in Christ,yet in "fact" we are not there yet.

Joel 3:10
Let the weak say, "I am strong"
Let the poor say, "I am rich"
Let the blind say, "I can see"
It's what the lord has done in me.

...

 

[amadeus]

"And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country.
And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were: " Joshua 2:3-4

She clearly lied to protect the two spies. But then in the NT we see that she is honored as a woman of faith:

"By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace." Heb 11:31

 

[Helen]

@amadeus That also reminds me of King David, the man after God's own heart.
1 Samuel 21.12
"And David laid up these words in his heart, and was sore afraid of Achish the king of Gath. And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard."

 

[amadeus]

@amadeus That also reminds me of King David, the man after God's own heart.
1 Samuel 21.12
"And David laid up these words in his heart, and was sore afraid of Achish the king of Gath. And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard."

Precisely! God inspired the writing of scripture just as He did to give us examples of the situations in which we might find ourselves. What is the answer? The answer usually is that there never is one pat answer that fits all cases. There is one answer that fits your case. To know that answer you must be hearing what God is saying. His sheep do. Are we His sheep or are we goats?

 

[FHII]

What about when we in faith confess who we are in Christ,yet in "fact" we are not there yet.

Well the question contains its own answer. Its in faith. God accounts faith and calls things that are not as though they were.

By faith we are called righteous, perfected, sons of God, sanctified, glorified, no longer in the flesh, holy and to boot, we know all things! Yet, by the flesh we are pretty much the opposite of all that.

By faith, God accounts all of that as true.

 

[Dcopymope]

You are right. I am wrong. Depends on the motive I guess: if truth is truly for another person, or self.

No. I recommended she read:
Matthew 18:23-35 KJV
[23] Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. [24] And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. [25] But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. [26] The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [27] Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. [28] But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. [29] And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. [30] And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. [31] So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. [32] Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: [33] Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? [34] And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. [35] So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Yes, its a more long winded way in saying "forgive others if you want the Father to forgive you". She apparently didn't get the memo.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, its a more long winded way in saying "forgive others if you want the Father to forgive you". She apparently didn't get the memo.

She got the memo. It's His testimony and my friends of what He has done in her life; not my testimony. She came to me because that is what she already wanted. To forgive. It was already there. By Him. She just needed encouragement from someone that also knew and loved her daughter, to agree. I was blessed to witness His work of the impossible.

 

[DPMartin]

This should be an interesting discussion, is lying alright to protect someone else? What about to get out of a dangerous situation? Or what if it's just lying to avoid a trip to the doctor? Or a secret about your health, like eye or hearing problems, that you have never been honest about with others because of being embarrassed by it? Or what about a lie to hide your weakness? Or what about lying to keep secrets?

These are tough ones for some people, and yes i sometimes struggle in this area over some little things. To be honest I am embarrassed to admit that I am short-sighted to some people, but thank God for contact lenses haha, and i don't like anything written negative on my health records, drivers license, etc. And I'm not always honest when I'm not feeling right.

So is it ever okay to lie? Is it okay to lie to keep secrets?

does anyone have the right to know? does someone have the right to know your checking account info? if not, then you can deny them the answer to their inquiry. if you were at war are you going to tell the enemy where you and your fellow solders are?


also who said the commandment said anything about lying? I don't see the thou shall not lie here


Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

so in the reality of it where does lying about one's own personal effects included here?


but the context of which the Lord speaks against lying:


Lev_6:2 If a soul sin, and commit a trespass against the LORD, and lie unto his neighbour in that which was delivered him to keep, or in fellowship, or in a thing taken away by violence, or hath deceived his neighbour;

Lev 19:10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God. 11 Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. 12 And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

hence to deceive for wicked reasons. but again anything that is personal no one has the right to know unless you see fit to reveal it.


as even in the case of the law God says here what is good and evil, hence one must discern what is for and against what God says is good and evil.

if some one asks you if the car they are buying from you is safe, your honesty is required, if the enemy in battle seeks info, your not obligated to give anything, even to deceive your enemy would serve.

 

[Josho]

OK, lets say you are working as an undercover FBI agent. If you really believe telling the truth won't ruin your life, then blow your cover and give them your real name. Forget about your alias, you know, the lie given to you to protect your identity and henceforth your life. Will telling the "truth" really work out for you in this scenario, or will the lie? I can give about a dozen different examples of why lying can be in your best interest, but I really shouldn't have to. I'm sure you are well aware of the kind of world you are living in.

Hmm good point i have never thought of that, then there are also lawyers, impersonators, actors, and yes singers too example, someone singing someone others song that they wrote. And apologies from op, that was a bit of a little lie too, used to be truth though, most people know about my eyesight now, dad told my boss the other day when i was going to get new contact lenses, ye people at my workplace never knew about it haha, it was embarrassing at when he was telling them, but ye turns i was worried about nothing.

But ya know little lies, avoiding them can be a tricky thing, today at work my chest was hurting, workmate said are you ok, i said ye i am fine, i was toughing it out through it, helping to move a heavy couch around, it was a struggle with a hurting chest, but i didn't feel like telling him, because he can be quite a worry wart too, didn't want to end up at a doc or anything hahah. Anyway it's nothing serious, it's just i have been recovering from the nasty flu, and chest has been hurting from all that coughing, it has been recovering, but I pushed my lungs a bit hard yesterday, playing too much Ocarina flute hahaha.

Now what about lying unintentionally, now sorry for using this as an example.... But Trump's former adviser or whatever he was Sean Spicer, he had little stumbles here and there and got some information wrong, now surely there must be nothing wrong with that kinda lying? And I'm sure God understands that, but we all get information wrong to certain extent, or most of us do.

What do you people think about lying unintentionally? Does the Bible have anything to say, about the odd slip up of the tongue? Or the innocent misinformation here and there without knowing it is misinformation?