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Little lies & secrets

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality Forum' started by Josho, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. Josho

    Josho Active Member Encounter Team

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    I hope my last comment gave you a bit of an idea, I was just worried about what other people thought and i try to avoid doctors, I am not one to say myob though, and that's the way i sometimes get out of stuff by little lies, to me it's just another way, maybe it's a more polite way, instead of telling someone to "mind your own business", I am a lot more honest these days though. Interesting interpretation of those Bible verses though. But where does it say (quoting you) "but again anything that is personal no one has the right to know unless you see fit to reveal it." in the Bible, is it like Abraham lying and saying that's not my sister that's my wife, for his sister's protection? I don't remember whether if that was Abraham or not, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure someone has a clue here about what I'm talking about.
     
  2. DPMartin

    DPMartin Active Member

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    Abraham didn't lie, he didn't volunteer the information. there is a difference, and again who's business was it, until it became an issue with the Pharaoh? but again he didn't lie to those who would kill him for his wife. Sarah was his sister as well as his wife so volunteering that she was his sister is no foul, and didn't volunteer she was also his wife is no foul.
     
  3. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Active Member

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    I know for a fact that we all spew misinformation on a daily basis. We all listen to the media, both mainstream and "alternative" on a daily basis. How many lies or misinformation have they been caught in that we have unintentionally spread? I know for a fact that the official narrative of the 911 attacks is a lie from top to bottom and so do many others. The story has tons of holes in it that are so big you can drive a Greyhound bus through it. That didn't stop the masses from buying into it, willingly supporting the invasion of two countries in a so called "war" that was never declared as such by congress. If we are to be judged by every lie we believed to be true and spread, none of us would be in the book of life. We live in a world of duplicity, those who believe themselves to be immune, to be above being easily deceived are the most likely to fall for any lie, small and great.

    As far as the Bible is concerned, there is one example in Exodus where the Hebrew midwives lied about the gender of the newborn babies to save their lives. Because these women feared God, not only did he not not condemn them, but rewarded them with houses.

    This in no way means the lies themselves were condoned, because that would be a contradiction to his commandment about not bearing false witness, and it doesn't split hairs about the nature of the lie either. This is meant to be a testament to the fact that no man can possibly fulfill the law 100% in this world, no man ever has or ever will but Jesus Christ.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  4. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Active Member

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    Apparently the kings during his day were known for stealing other peoples wives and leaving the husband for dead. So Abraham understandably feared for his and told Sarai to tell the Pharaoh that he was his sister only. This is in essence a half-truth because the Pharoah didn't know she was also his wife. The whole truth and nothing but the truth was not given. Half-truths tend to be the best lies anyone can tell, anyone working in counter-intelligence knows this. Abraham did this multiple times, and made out like a bandit with cattle, silver and gold every time, and never once did God punish him for it, the reason why is simple, because God knew his heart was in the right place.
     
  5. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Well, I am glad that you express lies and secrets as different terms. Because they are completely different: Even God keeps secrets...but does not lie.
     
  6. DPMartin

    DPMartin Active Member

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    Scott does make the point just because I don't tell you what you want to know doesn't mean I lied. Abraham didn't deceive anyone, he let them deduce for themselves what to think. and yes God doesn't lie, so what you are trying to say is that everything God lets the fool believe is because God didn't tell him, and that is liying. or is the fool a victim of his own thinking?

    in the case of Egypt, Abraham walked away with great wealth, because of the Egyptian's thinking.
     
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  7. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Active Member

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    Its not that Abraham didn't tell the Pharaoh what he wanted to know, he in fact told the Pharaoh exactly what he wanted to hear, that Sarai was his sister, neglecting to mention they were married. "Fool" or not, the Pharaoh had no reason to assume anything contrary to what he was told. Its not that Satan didn't tell Eve what she wanted to know, it was quite the contrary. He told Eve exactly what she wanted to hear, and she fell for it hook, line and sinker. When it comes down to it, how well a lie is sold depends on.....well......how its actually told, not on whats NOT told. As a result of Abraham's half-truth, he made out like a bandit. I don't think Abraham thought he would have been given vast amounts of wealth had he told the whole truth, because he thought he wouldn't have lived to tell it anyway to start with.
     
  8. DPMartin

    DPMartin Active Member

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    but how is it you assume he didn't volunteer the information to receive great gain? the man simply setout to seek refuge and told his wife to say that she was his sister only that he wouldn't be killed. what happened after that is on the Egyptians.

    hence Satan told Eve what wasn't true, where as Abraham didn't reveal something that was true, of which he wasn't obligated to reveal morally or ethically. two different acts.
     
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  9. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Active Member

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    Not assuming anything, I'm only going by what's stated in scripture. In the real world, what Abraham did would be called a classic case of duplicity. Not everyone will see it this way because they want to hold up these Biblical characters to be something they never were, which in this case is being 100% honest all the days of their lives, something no man has ever achieved save Jesus.

    Actually Satan told a bit of a half-truth as well. He told Eve that eating of the tree would make them have the knowledge of good and evil like that of a god. The part he lied about was that they wouldn't die from eating it and live forever. You see how clever he is? This proves my point that half truths can be the best lie you can tell, and its exactly this kind of lie that started it all.
     
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  10. Josho

    Josho Active Member Encounter Team

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    I'm sure many would argue against that, but it's a great point and if it's written in God's word it's truth and isn't a lie.
     
  11. breathofdesire

    breathofdesire Active Member

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    It's better to keep silent than even say a little white lie.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  12. Josho

    Josho Active Member Encounter Team

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    That's always good advice, but even to keep silent can be a struggle for some, look at those in Myanmar and North Korea places where Christianity is pretty much illegal, if a cop askes someone if they are a Christian in one of those countries, even to remain silent can have it's consequences, but to tell the truth to them is a very courageous thing to do, and Christians will be greatly rewarded in heaven for proclaiming I am a follower of Jesus in such situations.
     
  13. breathofdesire

    breathofdesire Active Member

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    Lying ends in worse calamity, than loosing your life.
     
  14. Josho

    Josho Active Member Encounter Team

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    If that were the case even for the smallest things, we would be all in a lot of trouble if it weren't for God's grace, still we should each try our best to be honest, and if we lie, which just about all of us do, God's forgiveness is there for us.

    Nobody is perfect, and 100% honesty is a very hard thing for any human to achieve, to those who are 100% honest, you are doing amazingly well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  15. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    In the OT we read this:

    "If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering:
    And he shall make amends for the harm that he hath done in the holy thing, and shall add the fifth part thereto, and give it unto the priest: and the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering, and it shall be forgiven him." Lev 5:15-16

    While we are not under that law as were the children of Israel, nonetheless the point made is that ignorance is no excuse. When we become aware of our error, we are responsible for it and need to amends for it. The principles of God have not changed because He has not changed. In the NT and more to the point we read this:

    "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
    For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matt 12:36-37

    If the words are spoken in ignorance or through carelessness, it really does not change the fact that we are responsible to make it right as best be can. God understands where we are in it and what we can or cannot do. What we can do to fix we certainly must do.

    A real example would we that we teach someone something about God's Way which we believe is right, but later we become convicted that our belief was in error. It was really lie, even though we did not realize it at the time we told it. Will not God expect to do what we can to fix it? Our ability to fix may be limited and in some cases impossible, but when we can fix it even in part, should not we try to do so?
     
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  16. breathofdesire

    breathofdesire Active Member

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    Lying is satans main tool, but I digress. This is a very tough world, where it's easier to lie than tell the truth. No one wants to hear the truth, it doesn't sell.
     
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  17. Josho

    Josho Active Member Encounter Team

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    Good post, but what if we never become aware of that error? Would it be a case of innocence like a child? And I never found anywhere in the Bible saying thou must be educated, so what if we don't have the best intellect? Not everyone understands what is truth and fact correctly and it gets misinterpreted around like Chinese whispers.

    And where do you believe grace of God falls into place on this topic?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  18. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    In my own history many years ago, I sinned badly against a young lady in Germany with my words and my laughter. I wasn't serving God at the time, but He smote hard in the heart. When I was drawn to God few years later, I was reminded of my offense. I was back home in the USA with little likely hood of ever returning to Germany and no possibility of finding that girl and properly apologizing.

    What I did was stand up during a church service and apologize to God and His people on her behalf. It was not as good as talk to her, but it was the best I could do. I know that God accepted what I did as my part of making it right. That happened more than 50 years ago, but I still remember every detail like it was yesterday. God accepted my apology, but He never would remove the memory of my error which is still painful to me after all of these years.

    If you never become aware that there was an error, God has then wiped the slate clean. If He had not, He would have seen to it that it came to your knowledge so that you could take corrective action.
     
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