Jesus is a human being but not the one true God

[GodsGrace]

Hmmm? Now that one has me stumped for the moment. Maybe it will come to me later.

If you mean that I will not die physically before you [bbyrd009]. I cannot say. I am in relative good physical health, but I am closing on 74 which means my time is probably than half way finished.

Then again perhaps I haven't directly responded to your words at all...

Hi Amadeus,

I know bb will be reading this too.
There are some veses in the Whole bible which are difficult to understand.
bb brings up Mathew 10:23 -- this is one of them.

There are several possibilities.
One could be that Jesus meant till all the world knows the gospel. This is the least accepted.

Another is that He mean until the Son of Man is revealed --- IOW, until everyone would know that HE was the Son of Man. Perhaps after the resurrection.

A third would be that Jesus was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD when the first Apostles and Disciples were still evangelizing in the early times.

It could also refer to 24:30 or Luke 17:30 the end of times when Jesus, the Son of Man will be revealed.

Take your pick!
What do you think?
This might make a good thread...

 

[GodsGrace]

I read somewhere when someone was telling another person how to get ride of a "quoted" message which was done by mistake! I wish I had paid more attention!
I thought I clicked "like" just now, but I must have clicked quote by mistake.Now I can't get ride of it...I deleted it three times but it still comes back!!
Maybe it won't show up in this post now that I have written this post too...and, once more deleted the quoted post!. Sigh.

Hi ByGrace,
Sometimes it's impossible to delete a quoted message.

Here's what I do:

1. Edit
2. Highlight and delet the Whole message using the "canc" cancell button, over by the numbers on the right of the keyboard.
3. Now you won't see anything written on the page.
4. Write DELETED on the page
5. click on SAVE CHANGES

your post will still appear but it'll say DELETED instead of what you had written.

 

[GodsGrace]

I will be absolutely fine without you writing to me, as I recall some of your responses from the start till the other day....Now in relation to what I highlighted above from your post, I will literally send you $100 if you can show me ANYWHERE where I have claimed to know everything about Him!!! As a matter of fact I have mentioned many many times, just how little I know, but that there are at least are a couple of things I can say with absolute certainty is the Truth, because I heard it from Him. Why don't you just draw near to hear from Him yourself ?????? There is no monopoly on Him, we all have the same ability to do so and the same Spirit ( if you are Spirit filled?) So you have done a little selective reading and missed the point, now joining the accusers and saying things about me, which is simply not true.
If I had believed that you were actually interested in anything I would have written to you about what Jesus died for to give us, I most certainly would have, but quite a few of your previous posts made me think otherwise.

No need to search.
Just read the above.
I'll send you my address.

 

[GodsGrace]

Please don't you start that rubbish as well, it's nonsense ! I will say though, that having discovered that we CAN learn by/through The Holy Spirit or Jesus Himself, it makes one want to help others to seek Him , so they too can be helped to overcome the various differences within various fellowships, who can't seem to agree on much. At least when one gets it through The Holy Spirit, who Jesus sent back to us to do exactly that, they can be completely assured that it is the Truth.
Not all of us are the way you and a couple of others are, toward anyone who have found the Way.
Can't help but wonder what our precious Father thinks about all this, although He must have obviously known from the beginning it was going to go down like this.....
Do you have ANY desire whatsoever to have meaningful fellowship with those who believe? Or are you on this forum to tell all of us why we are either wrong or deluded or whatever else you think? You certainly do your fair share of putting people down, not really an attractive quality for a believer.....

Do I get another $100.???

 

[GodsGrace]

Couldn't agree more.....But once you get to KNOW, there is simply no room for an ego, as the one thing you get to realize super quickly, is that without Him we are nothing, and without Him, we cannot say that we KNOW something, only that we have knowledge of something, and as He showed me, we can take virtually everything we THINK we know, and turn it 180 degrees.......It strikes me a little like those people who think themselves as 'knowing' a movie star or something like that, because of what they have read in the trash magazines...Before you jump down my throat, I am NOT comparing the Bible to trash magazines, merely that following something written about someone, does not make one KNOW them....

Do I get another $100. ??

 

[GodsGrace]

Sounds like the problem with Brown Belts. Having all the skill they are dangerous. The difference between that and Black Belt is mostly humility.

A little information is Dangerous.
Believeing one knows something no one else knows is Dangerous.
Sharing is nice...if it's not frowned upon.

 

[GodsGrace]

GINOLJC, to all. to GodsGrace, NO. let me make myself clear, I believe what the Lord Jesus taught about himself. likewise his apostles, and the early church disciples likewise taught. which now am I taught by the Lord himself, which I totally believe and teach. and that doctoral belief is "Diversity". meaning that God is the share or offspring of himself in flesh and bone. so, no I do not believe in a truine Godhead. nor do I believe in a "oneness" doctrine as the UPC and some others teach. nor am I Unitarian, or JW, or Mormon..ect. I'm neither of these.

but let me make it clear to you as to what I do believe in the doctrine of "Diversity. 1. there is only one God. 2. and that ONE God is "only" one person. 3. and that one person is the share or better known as the "OFFSPRING" of himself in flesh. 4. God is a Spirit, who is Holy, hence the epithet, not the title, but the epithet the "HOLY SPIRIT" who is the ONLY person in the Godhead. 5. "Father", "Son" are only titles of the only one true God, the Holy Spirit. 6. the Holy Spirit is the Father without flesh, and the Holy Spirit diversified in spirit is the Son with flesh. and lastly, 7. the Name of God is Yeshua, (Hebrew), and transliterated as JESUS, (English). the Hebrew is written Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin, it is a masculine noun that means "He is salvation" or "He saves. the strong # is H3442, if interested look it up.

and what you said "sound good?". no, it's facts, backed up by the bible, (the Word of God) from Genesis 1:1 to the end of Revelation chapter 22:21. Diversity is all over and throught the bible.

there is a clear scripture that says it all, 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good". this have I done in Christ Jesus.

be blessed in Christ Jesus the "ONLY" IMMORTAL King.

Yes. This is what I thought.

You see, this is why I started a thread called What Is A Christian.

You can believe the above if you want to, but you cannot then also call yourself a Christian.

To be labeled a Chrisitan you must believe in the Triune Godhead.

You say that YOUR belief was held at the beginning of the Church, after Jesus' ascension.

Could you please show me WHERE this is taught? And also that is was ACCEPTED?
As you must surely know, there were many heresies present in the original Church.
These were REFUTED by the early Church fathers. What you represent above was considered a heresy and not accepted as traditional Christianity.

Christianity understands there to be ONE God comprising of 3 individual persons with their own individual attributes but living in that ONE GOD.

Of course, YOUR way IS easier to understand. But it does not make it right.

Following is some info for those who might be interested. The concept of the Trinity existed in the early Church:

*******************************************************

The following quotes show that the doctrine of the Trinity was indeed alive-and-well before the Council of Nicea:

Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.

"O Lord God almighty . . . I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.

"For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).

Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.

"In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988).
"We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)

Irenaeus (115-190). As a boy he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons.

"The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: . . . one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,' and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all . . . '" (Against Heresies X.l)

Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.

"We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation . . . [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).

Origen (185-254). Alexandrian theologian. Defended Christianity and wrote much about Christianity.

"If anyone would say that the Word of God or the Wisdom of God had a beginning, let him beware lest he direct his impiety rather against the unbegotten Father, since he denies that he was always Father, and that he has always begotten the Word, and that he always had wisdom in all previous times or ages or whatever can be imagined in priority . . . There can be no more ancient title of almighty God than that of Father, and it is through the Son that he is Father" (De Princ. 1.2.; PG 11.132).

"For if [the Holy Spirit were not eternally as He is, and had received knowledge at some time and then became the Holy Spirit] this were the case, the Holy Spirit would never be reckoned in the unity of the Trinity, i.e., along with the unchangeable Father and His Son, unless He had always been the Holy Spirit." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 4, p. 253, de Principiis, 1.111.4)

"Moreover, nothing in the Trinity can be called greater or less, since the fountain of divinity alone contains all things by His word and reason, and by the Spirit of His mouth sanctifies all things which are worthy of sanctification . . . " (Roberts and Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 4, p. 255, de Principii., I. iii. 7).

Conclusion
If, as the anti-Trinitarians maintain, the Trinity is not a biblical doctrine and was never taught until the council of Nicea in 325, then why do these quotes exist? The answer is simple: the Trinity is a biblical doctrine, and it was taught before the council of Nicea in 325 A.D.

Part of the reason that the Trinity doctrine was not "officially" taught until the time of the Council of Nicea is that Christianity was illegal until shortly before the council. It wasn't really possible for official Christian groups to meet and discuss doctrine. For the most part, they were fearful of making public pronouncements concerning their faith.

Additionally, if a group had attacked the person of Adam, the early church would have responded with an official doctrine of who Adam was. As it was, the person of Christ was attacked. When the Church defended the deity of Christ, the doctrine of the Trinity was further defined.

The early church believed in the Trinity as is evidenced by the quotes above, and it wasn't necessary to really make them official. It wasn't until errors started to creep in that councils began to meet to discuss the Trinity as well as other doctrines that came under fire.

 

[GodsGrace]

I may well have been sarcastic concerning that. As there are those who believe that studying the Bible is akin to being a Pharisee. And they do see themselves as 'spiritual' as opposed to the others who study the Scriptures as 'Pharisees'. I am saying that is wrong.

Just because the Pharisees had a knowledge of the written Word without the Spirit does not mean that knowledge and study of the Word is wrong. Jesus Christ, as I have said before, had a thorough knowledge of the written Word. "It is written". (Matt. 4:4,7,10) (Matt. 22:29) "Ye do err. not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God".

Stranger

AMEN to that!

 

[Stranger]

For sure, but Jesus did show them that their understanding of the scriptures had not been correct and that they had most obviously not understood Gods intentions. Also, of course He knew the scriptures, as He was raised in that system which was for the Hebrew nation.
I certainly don't think of myself as any more spiritual than anyone else, that would be asinine...I keep telling those who feel entitled to have a go at me, without even reading what I write, that I know a FEW things, and I can only say that because I saw Jesus telling me those particular things. I have also pointed out that once I knew those few things, it made me realize more and more, just how little I actually do know, and that continues to this day.
He is simply too big and far too much for me to even begin to say that I know 'everything' about Him, as 'GodsGrace' suggested this morning I had said I did, which of course I never said at all.
I just get very confused why so many Christians are so adverse to actually get to know Him, instead of just about Him. He explains things better and clearer, than my understanding of what's been written, anytime He does .
Talk about not knowing the Power of God...

Jesus knew the Scriptures and used the Scriptures and chastised those who did not know them. Studying and understanding the written Word does not take away from ones desire to know God. It enhances it. We can know God only to the degree in which He reveals Himself. If one wants to know God they should be drawn to the Bible like a moth to a flame.

It is easy for those who go to seminaries or Bible colleges to get caught up in the academics of it, where it is just other book learning. But, it doesn't have to be that way. If one takes a class on the book of Hebrews, then they should see it as an opportunity for God to reveal more of Himself to them as they learn more of Him. Not just a class for credit.

(John 4:23) "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

Both spirit and truth are necessary. Neither can be neglected.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh please ! That's the last thing one would do after discovering the reality of Christ, surely...

surely, but the condition that displays similar symptoms, euphoric mania, often has a bad ending

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, first thanks for the response. I'll respond point by point.

Yes. This is what I thought.

You see, this is why I started a thread called What Is A Christian.

You can believe the above if you want to, but you cannot then also call yourself a Christian.

well I'm glad you're not the final authority on who can be a christian. so that statement is rejected.

To be labeled a Chrisitan you must believe in the Triune Godhead.

Where is that in the bible, book chapter and verse please?. again that statement rejected.

You say that YOUR belief was held at the beginning of the Church, after Jesus' ascension.

your first ERROR of this conversation. this is what I said, "I believe what the Lord Jesus taught about himself". and that started at Genesis 1:1.

Could you please show me WHERE this is taught? And also that is was ACCEPTED?
As you must surely know, there were many heresies present in the original Church.
These were REFUTED by the early Church fathers. What you represent above was considered a heresy and not accepted as traditional Christianity.

as stated we can start at Genesis 1:1, but his doctrine of "Diversity is through the OT, and NT. one can can start anywhere. I'm at your service. and I'll have scripture to back up what I say. and as for who Taught it. #1. the Lord Jesus, God almighty, the Holy Spirit. then he taught it to his prophets, and his priest. notice I said "his" prophets and Priests. and there are some prophets who are loaded with this teaching, yes in the OT, there's nothing NEW under the sun.

and as to a heresy, are you fully sure that what you believe is not a heresy? THINK ABOUT IT.

Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.

Yes I interested, did you hear clearly what Bro. Polycarp said, ""O Lord God almighty . . . I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever". did you see it? I guess not. he said "BOTH", but he also said "With" the Holy Ghost. with means the same PERSON. and he speaking of the BOTH is the same PERSON. let me prove it to you in the BIBLE. you know that the Lord Jesus is the "First and the Last". scripture, OT. now watch the red, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God". notice BOTH "LORD" are mention, and the conjunction "and" indicate the "BOTH" that our Bro. Polycarp stated above. and the BOTH are the one "ME". see our bro Polycarp have just eliminated your false belief in any 3 in 1 . now the "WITH". Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he". notice the "I" and the "Me" meaning the same person. with is use of his DIVERSITY. now listen to this and watch the red again. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last". did you get that GodGrace? not only is he the First "AND" the Last, but he is the First "WITH" the Last, but watch this, he's the First "ALSO" he's the Last. now let our bro Polycarp and i give you some Information. if you would have studied Genesis 1:1 and learned of God's plurality there then you wouldn't be making these vain accusation. the scriptures 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". see GodsGrace, before you open your mouth again on this subject, get approved by God first, and not by men which I'll address next in a post coming up. don't want to make this post to long. remember, study God. now next, Ignatius of Antioch, Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Origen which are nothing but men who taught the wrong thing.

 

[bbyrd009]

I am not aware of the misunderstandings

you have actually helped me to grow quite a bit since i've been here. However i doubt you are going to like how your role in that is going to be perceived, even by you, then

Why double minded?

we fight the truth coming at us from without to provide cover for the enemy, within. Over and over, same scenario, until the light dawns. Or does not. The best def for truth is likely what you don't want to hear

 

[bbyrd009]

Just because the Pharisees had a knowledge of the written Word without the Spirit does not mean that knowledge and study of the Word is wrong. Jesus Christ, as I have said before, had a thorough knowledge of the written Word. "It is written". (Matt. 4:4,7,10) (Matt. 22:29) "Ye do err. not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God".

true, but it is interesting how the Scriptures are delineated from the power of God, huh

 

[bbyrd009]

I read somewhere when someone was telling another person how to get ride of a "quoted" message which was done by mistake! I wish I had paid more attention!
I thought I clicked "like" just now, but I must have clicked quote by mistake.Now I can't get ride of it...I deleted it three times but it still comes back!!
Maybe it won't show up in this post now that I have written this post too...and, once more deleted the quoted post!. Sigh.

note the little "quote" button has a + to the left of it, that turns to a - when you click it--just click it again to toggle it to "off " (+)

 

[bbyrd009]

I keep telling those who feel entitled to have a go at me

nice

something about when you find out what you can't make fun of, you have found a person's...i forget, like idol or something.

of course this is going to make you hated by a certain type of person, understand

 

[bbyrd009]

Sorry I can't even remember how I eventually did get that deleted, because like you it kept on coming back, over and over.
I think ( not 100% ) I may have been shown to highlight it all, and then go to delete Perhaps give that a try.....

ya, you can also just insert the quote into a reply and then highlight/delete it before you post

 

[101G]

Post #2.

Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.

"For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).

see that conjunction "AND" there between Father, Lord, Saviour? it's the same person, who is God. let's prove it out. question How many saviours are there? answer ONE, let the record speak. Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour". ok GodsGrace, now you have a problem. in your trinity it states that the Father is not the son and vice versa, right. ok, if the LORD, all caps, says he is the ONLY saviour, then this MUST be the Lord Jesus Speaking, because the Lord Jesus is the ONLY Saviour of men. and if this is the Lord Jesus speaking here, then it's the Lord Jesus speaking through out the OT as the Spirit, or the Holy ONE, or the LORD all caps. now to prove this, his, (the Lord Jesus title is the Father, OT as well as the son NT). listen to the record, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". there he is, "the EVERLASTING who? FATHER. GodsGrace, now you have another problem, but much bigger. that Child that was born, that son that was given is the "EVERLASTING FATHER", and he's the MIGHTY GOD. and if separate as your doctrine states, then you have TWO GODS, as well as TWO FATHERS. and you know what that is?, answer, polytheism, and you do know what that means right, it's a heresy. now GodsGrace, how many Father is there? ONLY ONE. scripture, Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?". scripture don't lie. now let's eliminate this notion of God as the Father misunderstanding in the New testament. listen to the scriptures, James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world". did you see how the apostle James stated his wording. listen, "God and the Father". how come our brother Jame didn't say "God the Father?". no he said, "God AND the Father". now GodsGrace, is this one person or two. is this God one person, and Father another separate person as your trinity states?, of course not, it's the SAME ONE PERSON. just like this scripture that so many ignorantly miss, listen. John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent". so GodsGrace is this one or two person..... (smile). see your mistake. if you're going to used the conjunction "and" in one place then one will have to use it in every place when it come to identifying the PERSON in the Godhead. now with that information, this should take care of the rest of your church fathers statements.

now my conclusion. DIVERSITY was taught in the very beginning (Genesis 1:1), and it was taught by the Lord Jesus, (GOD), who created and made everything, (meaning him the ONLY Spirit). the whole bible is about God coming in his own image, "MAN" flesh and bone with blood and saving his creation. this was taught of God, in Spirit to the prophets. proof, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow". GG, I hope you don't mind me calling you that, short for GodGrace. that's where Christ was, he was IN, IN, IN, IN, the prophets of Old. that's where our Lord was at, Spirit, without flesh, without bone, and without blood. just read some of the OT prophets, many states something like this, 1 Samuel 15:10 "Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying", or 1 Kings 6:11 "And the word of the LORD came to Solomon, saying". or 1 Kings 16:1 "Then the word of the LORD came to Jehu the son of Hanani against Baasha, saying". or Isaiah 38:4 "Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying". or Jeremiah 1:11 "Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree". just one more, and there are many more prophets whom the "WORD" came to, Ezekiel 1:3 "The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him". now GG, who is the "WORD" of the LORD? answer GOD HIMSELF. understand the prepositions "OF". of translates the genitive case of nouns, of these the subjective and objective are mentioned. I know you understand the the subjective and objective right. as the subjective "of" is the Spirit, the Same one Person. then when he came, or shared himself in flesh, he is now the "objective" of himself here on earth. simply meaning he manifested himself in flesh. that's what the genitive case of nouns do. I suggest you study that. yes, (JESUS), GOD, he taught it to the REAL early church Fathers, who we have their letters, meaning the Genesis letters to the Revelation letters.

GG, I'm not about arguing or judging ok, but about TRUTH. now if you want to compare your doctrine against HIS which is now mine, for he gave it to me to teach. I'll be glad to discuss both our doctrine, and see if your or his line up with his word. understand, if you believe that your doctrine is true, then let's put it to the test. for the word of God is fire, and the fire will burn up false doctrine. I'll be looking to hear from you.

peace in Christ Jesus.

 

[amadeus]

Why double minded? Recognizing the importance of both the Spirit and the written Word is not being double minded. Both are equally important through every stage of the believers growth.

Stranger

Both as you say are important, [I would not say equally important.] But as I am sure you already know some people lean too much on the literal while others lean too much on the spiritual. Jesus made it clear for to me in the following verses what was the most important thing:

"And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her." Luke 10:41-42

Of course the double mindedness James mentions probably speaks more strongly to those who hang onto the carnal things of temptation along with the good things of God. This is trying to serve both God and mammon. Stewardship of material things including our physical body is thing a bit different than serving mammon.

We are responsible for caring for our physical bodies as good stewards of the things of God. But the care of this dying vessel must necessarily be secondary to properly nourishing inner man of which the Apostle Paul wrote.

We may still be in some measure double - minded in a bad way after having met Jesus because we are still attracted by the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye and the pride of life [see I John 2:16], but we need to come to the single mindedness that Jesus lived... eventually. If we follow and obey him, we can do it. For man it is impossible, but for God nothing it impossible.

 

[amadeus]

Hi Amadeus,

I know bb will be reading this too.
There are some veses in the Whole bible which are difficult to understand.
bb brings up Mathew 10:23 -- this is one of them.

There are several possibilities.
One could be that Jesus meant till all the world knows the gospel. This is the least accepted.

Another is that He mean until the Son of Man is revealed --- IOW, until everyone would know that HE was the Son of Man. Perhaps after the resurrection.

A third would be that Jesus was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD when the first Apostles and Disciples were still evangelizing in the early times.

It could also refer to 24:30 or Luke 17:30 the end of times when Jesus, the Son of Man will be revealed.

Take your pick!
What do you think?
This might make a good thread...

Not such a good thread for me, but likely I would choose

One could be that Jesus meant till all the world knows the gospel. This is the least accepted.

I have some unusual and unclear ideas about those things that you give as choices. To me the revelation is within me or it is no revelation at all. That means that Jesus is part [or should it be all] of my vision of the things of God for Jesus is the Word made flesh, is he not?

On the one I indicated, the question would be for me, what do those words mean?

till all the world knows the gospel.

All the world includes who? Jesus overcame the world [John 16:33], but that was his world, the world of his own flesh and the temptations as per I John 2:16.

Each of us also must overcome the world of our own flesh using what Jesus provided in order to receive the rewards for overcomers described in Revelation chapters 2 and 3.

When it is all done all of the world in us will be gone, but only the "good" will remain. People who never overcome that world in themselves, will never really know [understand or see] the gospel. To know the gospel is to know the truth, which is Jesus. If they have never known him, how can they be anywhere but in the grave once they have finished their course?

All of these things are mixed up in me when I try to explain them, so then my question to myself and to God is, Do I need better answers? If so will not they be provided?

 

[GodsGrace]

Not such a good thread for me, but likely I would choose

I have some unusual and unclear ideas about those things that you give as choices. To me the revelation is within me or it is no revelation at all. That means that Jesus is part [or should it be all] of my vision of the things of God for Jesus is the Word made flesh, is he not?

On the one I indicated, the question would be for me, what do those words mean?

All the world includes who? Jesus overcame the world [John 16:33], but that was his world, the world of his own flesh and the temptations as per I John 2:16.

Each of us also must overcome the world of our own flesh using what Jesus provided in order to receive the rewards for overcomers described in Revelation chapters 2 and 3.

When it is all done all of the world in us will be gone, but only the "good" will remain. People who never overcome that world in themselves, will never really know [understand or see] the gospel. To know the gospel is to know the truth, which is Jesus. If they have never known him, how can they be anywhere but in the grave once they have finished their course?

All of these things are mixed up in me when I try to explain them, so then my question to myself and to God is, Do I need better answers? If so will not they be provided?

That was my feeling too, but the one most theologically rejected.

My feeling is that God will provide all the important answers when we ask Him a question.

Some verses are very difficult to understand.
Who are the sons of God and the daughters of men?
Who really cares?
In the end, what difference does it make?

Jesus made sure that we understand what we NEED to know.
So, I agree that we know all we need to know and do not need anything else.

The O.T. was written 4,000 years ago!
Who can know what some things mean??