Sola Scriptura - does this foundation make you a heretic

[bbyrd009]

Did not imply anywhere or at any time that I know the mind of God.

so you say, but "i interpret them as they were intended" seems to be getting awful close, you ask me.

We have scripture and history to make a determination from. If you think that it is all lies you then have your choice

yes, the same choice you had at "as it was intended," i guess, but i'm pretty sure you are already aware that i am not going to be calling Scripture "all lies" this morning, right, so i must have meant something else, yes? That being that any doctrine you believe you can prove from Scripture seems to inevitably have other Scripture that successfully--at least to those who also feel that they are interpreting It as was intended--counters it.

Forcing a choice between two doctrines, or the third choice, that a logically trained thinker just cannot abide, ergo it is "hidden" from them.

 

[bbyrd009]

So if you cannot ask for illumination on my simple question and get the truth then you have yet to receive the helper. This in no way means you won't get it or can't get it. It simply means we are at different places in our walk with Christ.

The truth be told I was amazed that the truth was not absolutely apparent without the assistance of the helper once it was revealed. It reminds me of the adage that the best place to hide something is in plain sight.

imo this is a dangerous path, you looking for the exact phrasing that Word gave you for this concept in others, to use as some pass/fail mechanism for them? Those wings are made of wax, ok?

What if that explanation was the only one you could grasp at the time, for instance?

 

[Helen]

But they are direct quotations from Scripture

As I have said elsewhere....the bible is the spoken word of God...and it becomes alive and powerful under the anointing of the Holy Spirit... When it is in our mouth anointed by God, it is the word of God TODAY.
You could lay your bible on the head of someone bound by the devil and nothing would happen!! The book is not anointed.
But when you speak the scriptures to the person bound by the devil..under the anointing of God's Spirit, devil must obey..because it is God's word , alive and powerful today.
The bible is a book that comes alive under the anointing. Other than that, it is just dead-letter.
Obviously the devil submitted to Jesus...Jesus is The Word, speaking the anointed word in power and anointing.
If none of the above makes sense....go and asks His Spirit to open your eyes.
I can't.
God bless.

 

[KBCid]

imo this is a dangerous path, you looking for the exact phrasing that Word gave you for this concept in others, to use as some pass/fail mechanism for them? Those wings are made of wax, ok? What if that explanation was the only one you could grasp at the time, for instance?

Again that was not my words. I did not say one word about "exact phrasing". truth is truth and can be stated in a number of ways.
examples;
Christ is the only way to heaven.
God's Son is the door to heaven.
There is no other path to heaven than by God's word.
Only the power of God's word can take us beyond this world.
The only advocate between man and the Father is our path to become eternal.

To infer a pass or fail would mean that either everyone who will be saved is already saved or they are not. What if as I clearly stated we may simply not be at the same point in our walk? what if people don't receive the holy spirit all at the same time. suppose further that there may be people who think they have it but never will. The word is the sword that divides between truth and lies. If you cannot divide them then how could you find God among all the things in your experience?

 

[tabletalk]

ah I see the nature of your private message now and no its not a creed. The holy spirit reveals and leads us into truth. He is sent as a helper to those he is given to so, I am seeking those who actually have the spirit since many will assert they have it and a simple test will reveal the truth.
If you have the holy spirit you can query him for any truth that God wants you to know and it will be revealed to you.

So if you cannot ask for illumination on my simple question and get the truth then you have yet to receive the helper. This in no way means you won't get it or can't get it. It simply means we are at different places in our walk with Christ.

The truth be told I was amazed that the truth was not absolutely apparent without the assistance of the helper once it was revealed. It reminds me of the adage that the best place to hide something is in plain sight.

John 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

I Cor. 1:10 Now I plead with you, Brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same things and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

It sure seems as if you have a test question to determine who has the "helper" , or is part of "the true body of Christ". Is the helper the Holy Spirit? Who is given to all believers?
You said: "So if you cannot ask for illumination on my simple question and get the truth then you have yet to receive the helper. This in no way means you won't get it or can't get it. It simply means we are at different places in our walk with Christ."
So far, I don't even want to consider your question, let alone answer it. I don't follow every post on these forums, as some issues are not important to me, or just too involved for my weak intellect.

 

[bbyrd009]

Again that was not my words. I did not say one word about "exact phrasing".

but you did quote Scripture intimating this, that we should all be saying the same thing, and you have pretty much already stated that you have not seen posted what you were looking for, yes? Exact phrasing or otherwise.

truth is truth and can be stated in a number of ways.

yet you cannot find agreement in these pages of reflections about why God made Eve in the manner that our mythology has passed down to us?

I haven't been following that close here, have you stated your perspective there yet? I have tried to find it, sorry.

 

[KBCid]

It sure seems as if you have a test question to determine who has the "helper" , or is part of "the true body of Christ". Is the helper the Holy Spirit? Who is given to all believers?
You said: "So if you cannot ask for illumination on my simple question and get the truth then you have yet to receive the helper. This in no way means you won't get it or can't get it. It simply means we are at different places in our walk with Christ."
So far, I don't even want to consider your question, let alone answer it. I don't follow every post on these forums, as some issues are not important to me, or just too involved for my weak intellect.

Well it is a test question to see if others have the helper. The Holy Spirit is the only helper given from the father and yes the helper would be given to all "believers". Believers being defined by Christ.
Like I said before you can simply say "I don't know". There is no pressure to answer me now or ever. The only reason I asked you directly was because you displayed an unusual amount of correct understandings on a variety of subjects that is not typical for the usual "Christian".
I commend you on what you have accomplished in gaining understanding of God and I encourage you to keep on that path.

 

[KBCid]

but you did quote Scripture intimating this, that we should all be saying the same thing, and you have pretty much already stated that you have not seen posted what you were looking for, yes? Exact phrasing or otherwise.

The scripture states we should be of the same mind. How we express it is as varied as God has made us and no the correct intent of "what is significant about how Eve was formed" has not been given in any type of phrasing.

yet you cannot find agreement in these pages of reflections about why God made Eve in the manner that our mythology has passed down to us? I haven't been following that close here, have you stated your perspective there yet? I have tried to find it, sorry.

There has been no discussions I have seen here that touch the subject except mine so there is nothing to agree on.
I would also point out that God does not view his word to us as a "mythology". Such a phrasing is typical of atheist style thinking.
I will not be stating my perspective there so no you won't find it in fact, I cannot state my perspective since the one I had was essentially along the lines of what most have already stated. Once it was revealed to me what the significance was I have since been kicking my worthless self for not having payed attention to the details that had been provided. The best place to hide something is in plain sight.
The bottom line message to me from God that I can share is that everything they do and say are a reflection of God. Look at everything with a microscope because it all has meaning even if you don't discern it on the first few thousands of times you read it.
Note: learning to read ancient Hebrew is a huge benefit to helping discern intent.

Here is something you can consider a question between me and you. What is the higher significance of the Jewish Holy days and festivals? Why do they fall on the specified times that they do? Here is a tip: God does everything for a reason / purpose.

 

[KBCid]

That being that any doctrine you believe you can prove from Scripture seems to inevitably have other Scripture that successfully--at least to those who also feel that they are interpreting It as was intended--counters it.
Forcing a choice between two doctrines, or the third choice, that a logically trained thinker just cannot abide, ergo it is "hidden" from them.

I believe I need to clarify something here. The translated scriptures you refer to that counter one another are examples of translational error. God does not contradict themselves.

 

[bbyrd009]

There has been no discussions I have seen here that touch the subject except mine so there is nothing to agree on.

ah, and where is yours again? Post # or restatement? ty

 

[bbyrd009]

I will not be stating my perspective there so no you won't find it in fact, I cannot state my perspective since the one I had was essentially along the lines of what most have already stated.

ah sorry, i had gotten the impression somehow that everyone had let you down here in that regard, ok

 

[bbyrd009]

Here is a tip: God does everything for a reason / purpose.

ya, and i can't help but comment here that He divorced Israel and scattered them to the four winds, albeit quite possibly for a similar ignorance of the spiritual implications of the festivals, but nonetheless.

 

[bbyrd009]

The translated scriptures you refer to that counter one another are examples of translational error.

so you say, but i think it is more inherent than that, and imo your perspective here is better served in reflecting upon the nature of Word v the nature of Scripture; One cannot even be practically translated, while the Other can, so to speak

an example that comes to mind is
"provide for your family" and
"don't work for food," perhaps, but there are certainly many others that imo will not be resolved by even perfect translation.

 

[Marymog]

From God. The sheep know his voice
Most people use mans linguistic translations what do you use?

The same one you use.

Mary

 

[KBCid]

ah, and where is yours again? Post # or restatement? ty

for one who felt that commenting on the points I made it seems odd that you don't know the particulars.

 

[bbyrd009]

for one who felt that commenting on the points I made it seems odd that you don't know the particulars.

well, i am seeing now that i did not in fact miss a relevant post here, as i assumed at the time, so my apologies there

i thought i was wrong once, but i was mistaken!

 

[mjrhealth]

Well this aint God breathed

Mat 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee

Jesus certainly made a point of it

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

 

[Marymog]

Sola Scriptura (Lat., ‘by scripture alone’). The belief that the truths of Christian faith and practice can and must be established from scripture alone, without additions from, e.g., tradition or development.

Sola Scriptura was/is a founding principle for protestant Christians and is found as a principle in scripture itself;
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

If someone such as myself were to say that my understandings for God, Christ and salvation are entirely founded on "Sola Scriptura" does this mean that in other peoples views I could be considered a heretic?

Hi KBCid,

Using scripture alone please give the list of books that make up scripture (The Bible).

IHS....Mary

 

[KBCid]

Hi KBCid, Using scripture alone please give the list of books that make up scripture (The Bible). IHS....Mary

Scripture was never given in books nor was it referenced as books in fact even the OT books as many call them were never formalized until around the first few centuries a.d. and of course anyone can learn about how scripture has come through history to the state it is in now.
I would suggest that you start a thread about how scripture came to be considered scripture in our current time since the facts about what was considered scripture and not were debated by many people at many times. The unfortunate part in the whole story is that a great many scriptures were destroyed as one or another faction in power would eliminate those that didn't follow with the factions point of view.

 

[KBCid]

well, i am seeing now that i did not in fact miss a relevant post here, as i assumed at the time, so my apologies there
i thought i was wrong once, but i was mistaken!

My flesh revels in your humor ;)