What are the oracles of God and who are they committed too?
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Speaking of the carnal Jew, Paul writes this:
"What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God." Rom 3:1-2
What was it that was committed to them? Under the covenant with the Israelites, we find the written words of God with the tabernacle in the wilderness. It was through the prophets and priests of Israel that God spoke with His people. His people were the children of Israel, but now...
Has this changed since the outpouring of the Holy Ghost as per Acts 2?
"What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God." Rom 3:1-2
What was it that was committed to them? Under the covenant with the Israelites, we find the written words of God with the tabernacle in the wilderness. It was through the prophets and priests of Israel that God spoke with His people. His people were the children of Israel, but now...
Has this changed since the outpouring of the Holy Ghost as per Acts 2?
I love the God in you.
There was and will never be a change from the time that God committed his oracles to the Jews.
All of scripture breathed by the Holy spirit through men since the commitment was made has been through a carnal Jew. The canon of scripture that God made is written on earth as it was in heaven when he formed it for the good of the whole world and the only authorized people were carnal Jews.
We as gentiles can look to no other people who possess the authority to handle God's word and be prophets for our good. Since the last of the carnal Jews who were given gifts from Christ's time have died there has been no further prophets emerge to add further to God's word but there will always be the pretenders...
bbyrd009
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i would argue that yes, it has. A Spirit that is Word has been unleashed on the earth that has redeemed us since then, that we are the body of, and this is going to work a change that the law--the previous covenant that we still effectively live under, in the world anyway--could not, cannot. We have a record of the failure in the OT.
Gospel is Word, Good News! In a way that Law could not suffice, a la Job; even if Job did find Grace
There was no law that said a man must die for his friends, see, and now there is.
Things have changed because now you have to die to self
and this is going to work a change in the earth
this is the theme of basically every religion
in order to be a god, you have to be a servant first
a flowery way of saying that doing evil is going to basically extinct you via simple attrition v someone who is seeking God as best they are able, sensitive to others, verile and not sterile, etc
what you curse on earth is cursed in heaven, and what you bless on earth is what is blessed in heaven
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Jun2u
Well-Known Member
Can you give me your definition of what is the meaning/character of a prophet?
Thank you.
The character of a prophet would be a man that has the Holy spirit with minimally the specific gift of prophecy however, if one researches the OT you will find that prophets typically do much more that prophecy. In many cases they try to bring the people of God back in line with God's will and to record God's dealings with men. This is not an exhaustive description.
Note also that a prophet cannot be chosen or elected by men and they will be a natural Jew.
I have looked at a small amount of your posts elsewhere upon your reply here. You appear to have a proper understanding on the subjects I noted a like for.
I especially like your statement" if its not in the bible...."
You should have chimed in on the sola scripture thread I started.
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Jun2u
Well-Known Member
As I understand it the role of a prophet is one who is sent, yet you say there are no prophets today. How can this be so, did not Jesus give a command to born again believers to go into all the world and preach the Gospel baptizing them into the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? (paraphrased). Are not these believers in this context prophets? If not, who has the authority to determine these are not?
This is no trick. I just want to know who/what has the authority.
To God Be The Glory
Christ sent 11 appointed Jews to take his message to the world. I could quote it buuut, in your case I will simply ask you to seek this truth because I believe in the part of you I have seen in your texts.
Nope. He said to baptize them in my name. There have been some additions to the translated texts. Look up Acts 2:38 Matthew 28:16-19 should have the same message. The spirit does not give conflicting messages.
Here is a quick reference to the issue if you are inclined to look. I found this out as I was learning ancient Hebrew and Koine greek and seen the verse repeatedly being ended a different way than Matt has been shown in modern translations.
The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:
“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.”
Eusebius quotes many verses in his writings including Matthew 28:19 several times. But he never quotes it as it appears in modern Bibles. He always finishes the verse with the words “in my name.”...
...“With one word and voice He said to His disciples: “Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you,” — (Proof of the Gospel by Eusebius, Book III, ch 6, 132 (a), p. 152)
Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 8:12 “But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
Acts 8:16 “For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
Acts 10:48 “And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Acts 19:5 “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
Acts 22:16 “And now why tarriest you? arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
Romans 6:3 “Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
1 Corinthians 1:13 “Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul?” [Implied]
Galatians 3:27 “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
Was Matthew 28:19 Added To The Bible
I do not perceive you bringing any tricks sir. no need for warning.
The 11 believers that were commissioned / appointed indeed did what they were appointed to do and what is left of their writ has transcended the centuries to speak to the ends of the earth to this day. The commission they were given cannot be passed on since prophets must and have always been appointed as well as being natural Jews. Study the scripture and you will see.
If you choose not to, just give me a reply and I will reference the proper scriptures.
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So do I my friend. I just wish that I were always as faithful as He would like for me to be.
Pretenders? Yes, there are those, but are there not also among us today those with the gifts as per...?
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:" Eph 4:11-15
I do agree that there some who have taken on the position or title of those five gifts without having been given them by God. There are also some who have been given the gifts, but misused or abused or ignored or neglected what they were given. Yet, with all of this on the negative, there are still a few who have received the gift and who strive through surrender to God to work in the gift as He would have them to work. I have met more than one... Remember when Elijah ran away fearing for his life and told God that he was the only one? God set him straight on that as we know for at the time in Israel [the northern kingdom of 10 tribes that never had a king who pleased God] there were still 7,000 who had not bowed their knees to Baal.
My own view of a prophet is simply that he is a man who speaks God's Word. This may or may not include predictions of the future. Prophecies in scripture did not always include predictions... although I guess the accuracy my statement would depend upon what a prediction really is.
I agree that a prophet can never be elected by men, but I would not agree that only a natural Jew can fill the office.
It would be wonderful to have these people among us to make straight the way of the Lord but you must admit that the number of "Christian sects" just keeps getting larger and larger and error is the one thing on the rise since the end of the Jews as a nation.
Take note; that "he gave" this is past tense at the time of it's writing. Christ did indeed give gifts of what is written unto the people of that time to perfect the saints for the work that they were commissioned to do. Christ's apostles were to take his message to the ends of the earth and to do that they needed to solidify the message and commit it to holy writ in their time on the earth.
Then I pose a simple question to you sir as humbly as I can. Name for me a single man who was a Prophet for God who was not a natural born Jew at any point since the Jews were commissioned to carry the oracles of God.
Man has a record of failure in any time of which I am aware. But God has always had a plan in which men are a part. What part each one plays in the plan is really up to the man. A man can be a part of the Right hand or not so choosing he may find himself without knowing it to be a part of the Left hand of God.
God's plan included a means to become what we could not be immediately after the sin in the Garden which killed Adam and Eve as well as all of their descendants... until Jesus. Jesus became the means.
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13
And, of course Jesus did, and we, we are to be like Him so as to see Him as He is:
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2
And as we die to self, more room is made within us for Jesus, so that He may be written on our hearts.
"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30
There are some who would extend evil to infinity in some place of torment, but as you say evil is to become extinct. Evil abides in death and every man born of woman excepting Jesus was in the eyes of God born dead.
"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." Psalm 51:5
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Rev 21:4
Truth
Well-Known Member
As I read through this thread about the Oracles of God, there were Two types, the written Oracles and the living Oracles, the Living Oracles were the Feasts that the Carnal Jew kept as Worship rituals, the written Oracles were the words written by Moses, and entrusted to the Carnal Jew!
So let the Carnal Jew interpret what the Carnal Jews have written and let the Gentiles interpret what the Gentiles have Written. Amen!
So let the Carnal Jew interpret what the Carnal Jews have written and let the Gentiles interpret what the Gentiles have Written. Amen!
Yes, I agree with regard to the growing numbers of those sects, but consider how many were saved out of Egypt how many of those continued all the way into the Promised Land. The number was few... only two among those who were adults leaving Egypt. Few, but not zero. Was all the truth lost when Moses died? Was all of the truth lost when Solomon died and his kingdom became two? Was all the truth lost when the last of the men who knew Jesus in the flesh died?
Did God ever lose control of His plan? Has God put an end to all of His blessings or all of His curses?
Too many variables unknown to try to make a binding judgment on a thing based on the grammar of a language I do not know. I read my Bible daily in German and Spanish, and took enough Latin to understand some of its basics. There are some strange uses put to the different tenses of languages besides precise times [past, present, future]. Since God, as I believe it, has no time, what might His purpose have been for having it written in a past tense? [Rhetorical question.]
I do understand your point, but it won't make me change on this because I have known and know some brothers who have gifts now who are working for God. I would not say that their ministries are in error because of a point of grammar which I cannot by my own knowledge confirm. On some things we must trust God. He is in control and He works in His Way even if I do not always know it, or understand what I do know.
Also I follow the lead of the Holy Spirit. This is where I come from and this is the Way that I am going. Sometimes, I miss a step or stumble or even fall, but I do not quit...
I will not.
To name anyone that I believe was or is in such a position would only be my word here in any case unless God wanted to establish it for me. The ones I could or would name if I were willing would be men who have lived or are living in my lifetime as a man of flesh.
Sometimes we simply believe in a person because God has given us reason to do so. What is an apostle? What is an evangelist? What is a teacher? What is a pastor? What is a prophet? First to establish that one is on our own, we would have to ascertain if possible what the scripture says one is and believe me I know that people will disagree on the definitions according to scripture. If we had the definitions, there would almost certainly be some points of proof for those definitions with regard to any person who really was one according to God that some people would not accept.
Why not also prove God to an unbeliever? If the unbelievers heart is closed, we could not do it.
Be aware here that I was n0t directing you to name someone outside of scripture. My intent is for you to name anyone from scripture who is not a Jew that was a prophet. A simple request that does not require a personal judgment. Thus, we do not sink into a he said she said dilemma. If God said it then it matters and if he didn't say it then it also matters.
And what have the Gentiles written? further, when did God commit his oracles to them?
Since at the time of the writing of the scriptures the leading brothers were usually Jews, it is not unreasonable or unexpected for the prophets to be Jews as well.
For me the Book of Acts alone is an unfinished book which continues to be written in the lives and testimonies of saints who have lived from then until now. I consider Jesus words here:
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." John 21:25
And here:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12
Those two verses to me speak of more of the Lord's work continuing through those who follow after and believe in Him, be they carnal Jews or Gentiles. The books may not have been continued in writing nor the works recorded for our benefit, at least for the most part, but that does not mean they have not nonetheless continued.
This would be a personal belief. You should also ask yourself....
Self why were there no scriptures that talk about gentile prophets if in fact being a Jew has no bearing on who can be a prophet of God. Then of course there is this scripture;
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
So God tells man that he doesn't do anything without letting his people know what is being done. Had there been other prophets within the gentile peoples it would have been known. If God had committed his oracles to the gentiles he would have told a prophet about it. Is this intent not found in God's word?
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