Exposing lies of all denominations, Pope Francis. Who is Mary? First of many threads!

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Are you part of a denomination? Do you belive your denomination holds ALL TRUTHS?

  • Yes, I am part of a denomination and believe it holds ALL TRUTHS!

    Votes: 2 25.0%
  • No, I am not part of a denomination. Willing to test all- with the WORD!

    Votes: 6 75.0%

  • Total voters
    8

EndTimeWine

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Hi Job,

I believe that scripture teaches marriage is between a man and a woman. There are many "Christian" churches who support, condone, accept, actively participate in same sex marriages. Their teaching is opposite of most denominations. Same with abortion, real presence in the Eucharist, baptism, OSAS, Sola Scriptura etc. etc etc....pick your subject.

They say that scripture supports their position. I say it doesn't. Which is teaching/practicing heresy? How do we know?

IHS...Mary
Scripture is clear on all the issues you quoted.Reject that garbage abortion, gay marriage. Baby baptism is a good thing, and Christ is truly present in the Eucharist. God Bless!
Most every believer I know will say the same thing though they are identified with a certain denomination.

When you say you embrace the truths they represent, and reject the lies you say they teach, then you are forming your doctrine which you believe Scripture is teaching. Then, you must decide how important to you are the doctrines you believe are true, so as to exclude others from fellowshipping or worshiping with you. Or, by which you do not include yourself with the worship of others. By this very act you form a denomination. Do you see the impossibility of what you are wanting to achieve?

I would say your denomination is not the Body Of Christ. The Body of Christ is who we, every born-again Christian, are. And, even though there be many denominations in Christianity, there is the unified body of believers that are united by the Holy Spirit. That unity exists already by the Spirit. We will differ in some areas of doctrine, but the unity is still there, though we recognize it or not. It is from God, by the Spirit.

There is nothing wrong with a believer leaving a certain denomination due to its moving away from what they believe is Scripture. The believer just has to decide what doctrines are the ones the Christian must believe. Just like the early church did. Dogma. And then try and find a group of believers who believes as close to his beliefs as possible.

If you try and force a unity of believers around doctrine, you then will find yourself as the next pope of your denomination. For, all must agree with your doctrine to be a part.

We cannot get away from denominations. It remains for us to study the Scriptures and prove them, and prove that our beliefs are supported by the Word of God. But to create a Christianity without denominations is like the dog chasing his tail.

Stranger
I get your point. And it is well argued . The beliefs I believe in of any denomination is the Word of God. All denominations base that as their center of belief obviously. However, interpretation and application is an entirely different thing. For me it is all or nothing. I do not need a denomination to work it out for me, Christ has it. This is where I am at in my faith. Of course I have to say I embrace truths held in denominations because I can not reject the Word of God. But mans errors and twisting the Lords Words make them imperfect for me. So, I lean on the Word who is entirely PERFECT AND WORTHY. We can get away from a denomination any denomination. I am not dictated to by any Pastoral head, only Christ.

"To create a Christianity without denomination is like a dog chasing its tail". I think you missed the point of this. Obviously there are different parts in the Body of Christ, if you want to call these parts denominations for the sake of argument we will. The Body of Christ should work in Harmony not warring against other Body parts. I said reject the lies of each denomination. You will have as you said a Body of born again believers. They are of one mind and uphold one doctrine CHRISTIANITY which is what we practice . We are of one denomination the Body of Christ.The early Christians only considered themselves Christian. You had diversity in cultural names, Corinth, Thessalonians, this only had to do with location, they simply called themselves CHRISTIAN.
If you ask people today- what is your faith? I am RC, I am Orthodox, I am Protestant, Born Again, Methodist, Baptist. Oh, what do you believe , the Catholics are going to hell, the Protestant are going to hell. Veneration of saints is evil, Mary is a sinner like everyone else. Lutheran's are wrong according to Calvinist and vice-versa. It is crazy. You are not Catholic if you do not believe the Papal head is INFALLIBLE. They can keep their denominations I know the truth. This is the hour that Christ is going to make this right. It will not be pleasant but is necessary. My doctrine Christianity.
God Bless!
 
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EndTimeWine

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Scripture is clear on all the issues you quoted.Reject that garbage abortion, gay marriage. Baby baptism is a good thing, and Christ is truly present in the Eucharist. God Bless!

I get your point. And it is a well argued . The beliefs I believe in of any denomination is the Word of God. All denominations base that as their center of belief obviously. However, interpretation and application is an entirely different thing. For me it is all or nothing. I do not need a denomination to work it out for me, Christ has it. This is where I am at in my faith. Of course I have to say I embrace truths held in denominations because I can not reject the Word of God. But mans errors and twisting the Lords Words make them imperfect for me. So, I lean on the Word who is entirely PERFECT AND WORTHY. We can get away from a denomination any denomination. I am not dictated to by any Pastoral head, only Christ.

To create a Christianity without denomination is like a dog chasing its tail. I think you missed the point of this. Obviously there are different parts in the Body of Christ, if you want to call these parts denominations for the sake of argument we will. The Body of Christ should work in Harmony not warring against other Body parts. I said reject the lies of each denomination. You will have as you said a Body of born again believers. They are of one mind and uphold one doctrine CHRISTIANITY which is what we practice . We are of one denomination the Body of Christ.The early Christians only considered themselves Christian. You had diversity in cultural names, Corinth, Thessalonians, this only had to do with location, they simply called themselves CHRISTIAN.
If you ever ask people today- what is your faith? I am RC, I am Orthodox, I am Protestant, Born Again, Methodist, Baptist. Oh, what do believe , the Catholics are going to hell, the Protestant are going to hell. Veneration of saints is evil, Mary is a sinner like everyone else. Lutheran's are wrong according to Calvinist and vice-versa. It is crazy. You are not Catholic if you do not believe the Papal head is INFALLIBLE. They can keep their denominations I know the truth. This is the hour that Christ is going to make this right. I will not be pleasant but is necessary. My doctrine Christianity.
God Bless!
Some last thoughts, denominations are like political parties you have to support the parties beliefs or you are ridiculed by your peers. Even if the views are contrary to the truth you are expected to go along to get along. This is much of the same in religious organizations. I can worship Christ without them. My family does just that. And their are many Christians who do just that.
 

Marymog

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We use the scriptures. Most of the scriptures are pretty straight forward. They don't hold a secret meaning. There are verses that are hard to understand, but I believe through prayer and study, the meaning will come to light.

I'll give one example of a passage that is crystal clear in it's meaning. It can't be taken any other way than how it is said.

Deuteronomy 4
15 “Take careful heed to yourselves, for you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire,
16 lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure: the likeness of male or female,

This is referencing religious images. It can't be interpreted any other way. "You saw no form" is an indication of this. If you read further in this passage you will see why these things are forbidden. You will find nothing in the scriptures that allows for the making of these images. People will argue this and that but it's simply not there. It doesn't exist. I know because I've searched.

This is all I'm going to say regarding this passage.

Today's church is dripping with heresy. That's the main reason I don't attend..

Who is "we"? The Catholic Church? Mormon Church? Baptist...Lutheran....Marymog? Job sitting in his lounge chair reading and interpreting scripture? We all read the "hard to understand" portions of scripture and come up with different interpretations. Who is right? What came to light for me may be different for you.

Who decides which churches are "dripping with heresy"? You know heresy when you see it?

IHS...Mary
 

Marymog

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Sounds like YOU are infallible since you know what heresy is and isn't. You know which denomination's have heretical teachings and that the Pope is not a Christian.

Mary
 

Marymog

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Scripture is clear on all the issues you quoted. Reject that garbage abortion, gay marriage. Baby baptism is a good thing, and Christ is truly present in the Eucharist. God Bless!

I get your point. And it is a well argued . The beliefs I believe in of any denomination is the Word of God. All denominations base that as their center of belief obviously. However, interpretation and application is an entirely different thing. For me it is all or nothing. I do not need a denomination to work it out for me, Christ has it. This is where I am at in my faith. Of course I have to say I embrace truths held in denominations because I can not reject the Word of God. But mans errors and twisting the Lords Words make them imperfect for me. So, I lean on the Word who is entirely PERFECT AND WORTHY. We can get away from a denomination any denomination. I am not dictated to by any Pastoral head, only Christ.

To create a Christianity without denomination is like a dog chasing its tail. I think you missed the point of this. Obviously there are different parts in the Body of Christ, if you want to call these parts denominations for the sake of argument we will. The Body of Christ should work in Harmony not warring against other Body parts. I said reject the lies of each denomination. You will have as you said a Body of born again believers. They are of one mind and uphold one doctrine CHRISTIANITY which is what we practice . We are of one denomination the Body of Christ.The early Christians only considered themselves Christian. You had diversity in cultural names, Corinth, Thessalonians, this only had to do with location, they simply called themselves CHRISTIAN.
If you ever ask people today- what is your faith? I am RC, I am Orthodox, I am Protestant, Born Again, Methodist, Baptist. Oh, what do you believe , the Catholics are going to hell, the Protestant are going to hell. Veneration of saints is evil, Mary is a sinner like everyone else. Lutheran's are wrong according to Calvinist and vice-versa. It is crazy. You are not Catholic if you do not believe the Papal head is INFALLIBLE. They can keep their denominations I know the truth. This is the hour that Christ is going to make this right. I will not be pleasant but is necessary. My doctrine Christianity.
God Bless!
I agree with you that Christ is present in the Eucharist. I believe it because scripture says He is. How do we know we are right? Maybe the anti-real presence denominations are right?

If scripture is so "clear" on all these issues why are there so many denominations that come up with different interpretations of the same passage? Are we confused or is the Holy Spirit that guides each of us to those interpretations?

You say you are "not dictated to by any Pastoral head" and that man "errors and twisting the Lords Words". How do you know you are not in error and twisting the Lords words? How do I know if I am twisting?

How do we know who or which Christians are of "one mind and uphold one doctrine CHRISTIANITY"? Who decides this?

How do YOU know "the truth" and the various denominations don't know "the truth"?

IHS...Mary
 
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Job

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Who is "we"? The Catholic Church? Mormon Church? Baptist...Lutheran....Marymog? Job sitting in his lounge chair reading and interpreting scripture? We all read the "hard to understand" portions of scripture and come up with different interpretations. Who is right? What came to light for me may be different for you.

Who decides which churches are "dripping with heresy"? You know heresy when you see it?

IHS...Mary


"We" is you, me and every other individual that takes it upon himself to study the scriptures. It's not a designated group of people.

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Job

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Sounds like YOU are infallible since you know what heresy is and isn't. You know which denomination's have heretical teachings and that the Pope is not a Christian.

Mary


Must you be rude Mary? Can you not carry on a conversation with someone you despise without lashing out?

As for your pope comment. Show the quote that states he is not a christian.



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Helen

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I am Christian and I do not hold to any one denominations teachings entirely only the Word of God, entirely. And since every denomination has some truth, some may hold more truth than others, I embrace the truths they represent. They also have lies, I reject those lies.
My denomination, THE BODY OF CHRIST.
What were the first believers called? Christians!
What did they practice? Christianity.

Amen...I can say Ditto to that.
 
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Marymog

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Must you be rude Mary? Can you not carry on a conversation with someone you despise without lashing out?

As for your pope comment. Show the quote that states he is not a christian.

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My dear friend. I don't despise you. I don't even know you. ;)

YOU are the one who said that denominations have heretical teachings and accused the pope of heresy. Since you KNOW what a heretical teaching is and KNOW who is committing heresy you must be infallible. The Catholic Church believes the same thing about itself. Are you equating yourself to the Catholic Church?

Did you mean you THINK (it is your opinion) those denominations/pope has committed heresy?

I never said the pope is not a Christian. I asked you a question based on the statement YOU made: Since "Pope Francis is a walking contradiction to the Dogma of the faith" is he a Christian?

If someone is, as you say, a walking contradiction to the Dogma of faith they wouldn't be a Christian. Would they? If they contradict Christ they can't be a Christian, right?

IHS...Mary
 

Helen

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Is anyone who "continue to support the heretical teac hings" Christians? Wouldn't that be anti-Christian?

Good question Mary.
I would have to say that no Christian I have ever known in 53 yrs was/is totally void of any misunderstanding of some parts of the bible...including myself and yourself.

So no..we do not have all truth. The ones in life and on this CyB site..cannot help having 'some' error in what is believed. Does that make them none-christians?
My own kids had some odd ideas while growing up....
Eph 4:13 " until we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ..." We are not there yet...but that doesn't make us all heretics.

The people I have the hardest time with on this Site and those who say (by how they write and respond..) " I know that I know, that I know, I am right."
I personally out and out reject that. The only thing we can know that we know..is Who God is, who Jesus Christ is. And like Paul said :-
"I KNOW Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able, to keep that which I have committed to Him, against that day." That is our firm foundation.
I don't believe God has a mental breakdown when we get other things a bit wrong.


Mary, most other things we 'think' we know....and we hope we have it right, and we are always opened to God to show us the truth of the matter...

Just my two cents..
 
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Marymog

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"We" is you, me and every other individual that takes it upon himself to study the scriptures. It's not a designated group of people.
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According to your statement there is a "designated group of people". Only those that "study the scripture" are "WE" according to your theory.

What about all the people who didn't have a bible in their home to study before the printing press was invented? Or the people who are to illiterate to read? Are the considered part of "WE"?

God has confused all of us (you, me and every other individual) by giving all of us a different interpretation of the same passage from scripture. We all allege the Holy Spirit inspired us to OUR interpretation of scripture. All of us think we are right in our interpretation because we were 'inspired' or it was 'revealed to us'. Since all of us are 'inspired' that means the Holy Spirit is confused since He gave all of us different interpretations of the same passage.

IHS...Mary
 

Marymog

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Good question Mary.
I would have to say that no Christian I have ever known in 53 yrs was/is totally void of any misunderstanding of some parts of the bible...including myself and yourself.

So no..we do not have all truth. The ones in life and on this CyB site..cannot help having 'some' error in what is believed. Does that make them none-christians?
My own kids had some odd ideas while growing up....
Eph 4:13 " until we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ..." We are not there yet...but that doesn't make us all heretics.

The people I have the hardest time with on this Site and those who say (by how they write and respond..) " I know that I know, that I know, I am right."
I personally out and out reject that. The only thing we can know that we know..is Who God is, who Jesus Christ is. And like Paul said :-
"I KNOW Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able, to keep that which I have committed to Him, against that day." That is our firm foundation.
I don't believe God has a mental breakdown when we get other things a bit wrong.


Mary, most other things we 'think' we know....and we hope we have it right, and we are always opened to God to show us the truth of the matter...

Just my two cents..
Hi BG,

I always enjoy your thoughtful and well thought out post.

If no one has The Truth from scripture then God is being cruel to us. We can never know what teaching/belief is heretical. Your belief is just as valid as mine....mine just as valid as yours? Everyone's belief (doctrine) is valid since no one has "the truth"?

Scripture has a few things about heretical teachings. They seemed to have been able to figure out heresy or who was heretical 2,000 years ago. Why can't we figure it out now? Are we dumber than them?

What if God shows me a different "truth" than you? What if my "truth" tells me I can have an abortion? (BTW...I never would).

IHS....Mary
 
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Job

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According to your statement there is a "designated group of people". Only those that "study the scripture" are "WE" according to your theory.


You are correct Mary. Kudos to you.
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Have a nice day.
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Job

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I never said the pope is not a Christian. I asked you a question based on the statement YOU made: Since "Pope Francis is a walking contradiction to the Dogma of the faith" is he a Christian?


You're right, you didn't say it. You said I said it.

Show me the statement I made. Post the quote.


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Helen

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If no one has The Truth from scripture then God is being cruel to us. We can never know what teaching/belief is heretical. Your belief is just as valid as mine....mine just as valid as yours? Everyone's belief (doctrine) is valid since no one has "the truth"?

I guess this is where we separate...and our conversations always tend to collapse.

No one has the truth because God is LOVE! He created us as a Body.
Not all the body is a the hand, or foot, or finger..etc....
He did not make us so any 'one person' would be the whole...but so that the whole would be one Body together.
He has not given all truth to one person, but all of us together have the truth.
Hence, the hand , the foot , the elbow etc.

As I mentioned in the last post..." until we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ..."
He created us so that we each need each other.
Most of us on this Site are wise enough to discern those who comes on Site with spouting heresy and confusion. We spot it , we reject it, and we move on.
... and I have found it is more often those kind of people that usually say-
" I know that I am right"...but we are not fooled and we reject it ..( sadly with me, not before I have fallen for the trap, and had a few exchanges in posts thinking that they are genuine joiners of the Site. Yet find out, after I have fallen into that trap of responding ...that they have only joined to spout their own agenda and propagate it.

I find that 'spirit' very different from genuine christians who innocently believe something that someone else erroneously taught them as truth.
That to me is why we need each other. Check and balance.

Blessings...Helen
 
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Marymog

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I guess this is where we separate...and our conversations always tend to collapse.

No one has the truth because God is LOVE! He created us as a Body.
Not all the body is a the hand, or foot, or finger..etc....
He did not make us so any 'one person' would be the whole...but so that the whole would be one Body together.
He has not given all truth to one person, but all of us together have the truth.
Hence, the hand , the foot , the elbow etc.

As I mentioned in the last post..." until we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ..."
He created us so that we each need each other.
Most of us on this Site are wise enough to discern those who come on Site with out and out heresy and confusion. We spot it , we reject it, and we move on.
... and I have found it is more often those kind of people that usually say-
" I know that I am right"...but we are not fooled and we reject it ..( sadly with me, not before I have fallen for the trap, and had a few exchanges in posts thinking that they are genuine joiners of the Site. Yet find out, after I have fallen into that trap of responding ...that they have only joined to spout their own agenda and propagate it.

I find that 'spirit' very different from genuine christians who innocently believe something that someone else erroneously taught them as truth.
That to me is why we need each other. Check and balance.
Blessings...Helen
Thank you Helen.

Since, according to you, we don't know what the truth is that means we don't know WHAT to believe.

Scripture says "he who does not believe will be condemned". Since we don't know WHAT to believe I guess we are all condemned.

It seems to me you don't believe the absolute truth of scripture has been revealed to us or that you believe we all have our own truths. That thought process means that there is no absolute truth....just truth relative to the individual’s set of beliefs.

So I ask: Is it absolutely true that there is no absolute truth?

Not sure how your "check and balance" thing works. Majority rules? If 51% of Christians believe baptism is necessary to be saved then that is "the truth" of scripture?

Thank you for your time.

Love....Mary
 
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Marymog

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You're right, you didn't say it. You said I said it.

Show me the statement I made. Post the quote.

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OK, I will, Again!!

"Pope Francis is a walking contradiction to the Dogma of the faith"

IHS...Mary
 

Job

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OK, I will, Again!!

"Pope Francis is a walking contradiction to the Dogma of the faith"

IHS...Mary


Post a link to that statement and you will discover those are not my words.


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