Genesis - The True Story of the Beginning....

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Barrd

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Born_Again said:
Are you serious? Um, okay. If that's the ship you want to sail. Have fun with that. I'm not going further with this. Completely illogical. Have a good one, Barrd. Nice chatting with ya. Take care now.
Luv you too, BA.
Wishing for you all the blessings that you have wished for me... <_<
 

Born_Again

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StanJ said:
Yah just had to jinx it aye?
Well, honestly, I did not see that coming. :unsure: I didn't see how it could have possibly pulled that response. I was wrong. lol :p
 

Barrd

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Born_Again said:
Well, honestly, I did not see that coming. :unsure: I didn't see how it could have possibly pulled that response. I was wrong. lol :p
So, are we going to lock this thread down, too? It obviously isn't going anywhere.
Not much of a "debate forum" if folks are not free to debate, is it?
 

ezekiel

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I would thing that in the beginning was God and the light was with God It was everywhere. Then God Created darkness under his Throne the fabic that all heaven would be laid on.
 

biointeger

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4Pillars said:
Here's my take - Genesis 1:1-5..... based on my own Biblical perspective.

Gen.1:1 - is just a Preface... The Story of the Beginning of Our Physical World...

Gen. 1:2 - narrates us the condition of the deep before the making of our physical heavens and earth.

Gen. 1:3 - The bringing forth of the Light before the world was.... before anything is made that was made.

Gen. 1:4 - The division of light from darkness...The first work of old.

Gen. 1:5 - The evening and the morning, the First Day

Notice: Our heaven and earth was not yet formed at this time . The actual formation of the 1st heaven took place only on the 2nd Day - Gen. 1:6-8.
Our own world was made on the 3rd Day.


Of course, the above analogies are based only on my own Biblical understanding.
Can you explain to me what all this means.
 

shnarkle

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The Barrd said:
I wonder that it never occurred to anyone that "Let there be Light" might have had something to do with bringing forth Jesus...by Whose Power all things were made...

Just a thought.
He did make reference to this, but he presented it more accurately. He mentioned bringing forth Light in connection with this happening before "anything is made that was made." which is a clear reference to John 1:1. while I think all would agree that the Son is through Whom and for Whom the world is created, and all would agree that Jesus is also this same Son in relation to the Father, I'm not so sure that it is accurate to say that Jesus is through whom all things are made. There's a chronological sequence of events presented in John's gospel and the incarnation occurs well after creation so technically I don't think it's accurate to say that Jesus was there before his incarnation. There is all the difference in the world between the "Word was flesh" and the Word "became flesh".
 

shnarkle

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4Pillars said:
Genesis 1:21 tells us that every living creature that moveth was brought forth from the waters on Day 5. This included the sons of God of Gen. 6 who's origin is from the waters.
Genesis 2 tells us of Creatures made from the dust. Some people see this as a contradiction, and falsely assume that God made a boo boo.



The first Living Being made from the dust was man. Man was made on the 3rd Day before the plants and herbs, right after the mist that watered the whole face of the ground -Gen 2:4-7. This gives mankind Preeminence or First Place among all other Living Creatures.
I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that man was made on the third day from. I agree that there are no contradictions in scripture, especially with regards to the first two chapters of Genesis, but there is no need to go through all of these contortions to see that the two chapters agree. It just takes a closer look at the text to see what it is actually saying. Man is clearly created after the plants and animals. This is clearly what is stated in both chapters In chapter one humanity is created after the fifth day is mentioned and before the sixth day is mentioned. In chapter two man is also clearly created after the plant life, the reason is given as to why the seeds weren't planted yet, but they were already created prior to man's creation; they just weren't planted in the earth. This actually fits kinda well with the whole idea that evolution couldn't have happened on earth in such a short time so it had to come from somewhere else. I think it's called the seed theory or something like that; seeds from aliens or a meteor etc.
 

shnarkle

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4Pillars said:
There are several reasons why I believe that the word used in the Preface of Gen. 1:1 is Heaven and not Heavens (plural).

In the context of the text, I see the narrative as saying:

In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
I only have one question with this theory: There is no verb "to be" in Hebrew, but there is a word for "become, became" which is what is being used in "the earth 'became' (tohu va bohu) without form and void". In other words it was destroyed. This isn't all that surprising as we know that there was a lot of debris flying around for a while. There's still quite a lot of body damage to the moon which I'm sure would look much better with a face lift. Then there's the asteroid belt which according to the math has to be the remains of a planet that was destroyed. So the earth could easily have been formed and then reformed after being destroyed. This fits with quite a lot of scripture referring to a cataclysmic event Heb. "katabole"
 

shnarkle

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I know that plenty of translators use the past tense of the verb to be, but my question is why do that when the other form of the word i.e. "became" is what is used in the Hebrew?
 

4Pillars

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4Pillars said:
Here's my take - Genesis 1:1-5..... based on my own Biblical perspective.

Gen.1:1 - is just a Preface... The Story of the Beginning of Our Physical World...

Gen. 1:2 - narrates us the condition of the deep before the making of our physical heavens and earth.

Gen. 1:3 - The bringing forth of the Light before the world was.... before anything is made that was made.

Gen. 1:4 - The division of light from darkness...The first work of old.

Gen. 1:5 - The evening and the morning, the First Day

Notice: Our heaven and earth was not yet formed at this time . The actual formation of the 1st heaven took place only on the 2nd Day - Gen. 1:6-8.
Our own world was made on the 3rd Day.


Of course, the above analogies are based only on my own Biblical understanding.

Can you explain to me what all this means.

It means that the actual making of our worlds (plural) started on the 2nd Day not on the first Day Gen. 1:1-5

The Son of God was at the bosom of the Almighty Father BEFORE the Making of our physical worlds.

He came forth (begotten) into our physical world from the invisible realm of his Father, the 1st time.... when God spoke the“Word” in the Beginning and said, “LET THERE BE LIGHT”, and there was light. (Gen. 1:3)

… because without the True Light of heaven (John 1:9) in the beginning, nothing is made that was made.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The Son became the only God physically formed or ever shall be physically formed for us to see and witness. He was the great I AM" (YHWH) of the Old Testament and became better known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD (YHWH), and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

The brightness of glory of the Son provided the True Light of heaven in the beginning, ref: Gen. 1:3 (ALPHA) before the world was .... as He will also be the one to provide the light of heaven in the end (OMEGA). Rev. 21:23

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

God bless
 

4Pillars

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I only have one question with this theory: There is no verb "to be" in Hebrew, but there is a word for "become, became" which is what is being used in "the earth 'became' (tohu va bohu) without form and void". In other words it was destroyed. This isn't all that surprising as we know that there was a lot of debris flying around for a while. There's still quite a lot of body damage to the moon which I'm sure would look much better with a face lift. Then there's the asteroid belt which according to the math has to be the remains of a planet that was destroyed. So the earth could easily have been formed and then reformed after being destroyed. This fits with quite a lot of scripture referring to a cataclysmic event Heb. "katabole"

Genesis 1 - speaks of the story of the Beginning; Origin; Birth; Creation; etc.... However, Genesis 1 does NOT speak of anything about.... “Restoration or Re-formed of the physical world.

Instead, the Scripture talks about God Creating New HeavenS (plural) and New Earth.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavenS (plural) and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

God bless
 

4Pillars

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4Pillars said:
Genesis 1:21 tells us that every living creature that moveth was brought forth from the waters on Day 5. This included the sons of God of Gen. 6 who's origin is from the waters.
Genesis 2 tells us of Creatures made from the dust. Some people see this as a contradiction, and falsely assume that God made a boo boo.

The first Living Being made from the dust was man. Man was made on the 3rd Day before the plants and herbs, right after the mist that watered the whole face of the ground -Gen 2:4-7. This gives mankind Preeminence or First Place among all other Living Creatures.

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that man was made on the third day from. I agree that there are no contradictions in scripture, especially with regards to the first two chapters of Genesis, but there is no need to go through all of these contortions to see that the two chapters agree. It just takes a closer look at the text to see what it is actually saying. Man is clearly created after the plants and animals. This is clearly what is stated in both chapters In chapter one humanity is created after the fifth day is mentioned and before the sixth day is mentioned. In chapter two man is also clearly created after the plant life, the reason is given as to why the seeds weren't planted yet, but they were already created prior to man's creation; they just weren't planted in the earth. This actually fits kinda well with the whole idea that evolution couldn't have happened on earth in such a short time so it had to come from somewhere else. I think it's called the seed theory or something like that; seeds from aliens or a meteor etc.

Below is my understanding of Gen 2:4 which is obviously speaking of the THIRD Day, the SAME Day Adam's Earth and additional HeavenS/firmaments were made including the beginning of the present Universe and also the THIRD Heaven of ll Cor 12:2.

Gen 2:4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

This verse is speaking of the THIRD Day when LORD God (YHWH/Jesus) made the first Earth. This was on the THIRD Day according to Gen 1:10 "And God called the dry land Earth;"

Notice the capitalization of the word Earth. On the 3rd Day when Jesus made the first Earth, He also made additional Heavens. He made the present heavens and Earth and He also made the THIRD Heaven where Christians will live for Eternity when the present world is burned. ll Peter 3:10. The 3rd Heaven is also called the New Heaven and New Earth in Rev. 21:1.

Continuing to the next verse, the THIRD Day is confirmed for the first time.

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.


The plants GREW on the THIRD Day. Gen 1:12 What else happened on this THIRD Day after the Earth was made but BEFORE the plants, herbs and rain, is very important to ALL Humans (descendants of Adam).

7 And the Lord God FORMED man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

These verses are identifying the THIRD Day when Adam was made from the dust of the ground by the Hands of Jesus. Adam is the first Human and the ONLY living creature made on this 3rd Day. This gives Humans First place in Heaven, as God's Children, for Humans will have dominion or rule over every other living creature. Gen 1:28

Ancient theologians failed to properly identify this Day with it's importance. What these verses show is that it is IMPOSSIBLE that Humans could have evolved from ANY other living creature or some aliens as you call it... since Adam, the first Human, was made BEFORE any other creature.

Again... Adam was "formed" or shaped, as a Potter molds the Clay, on the 3rd Day AFTER Adam's Earth was made but BEFORE the plants GREW. Gen 2:4-7

He was surrounded with Shekinah Glory and live with Jesus/YHWH as our Lord' meet during the actual physical Making of our Worlds... before Adam sinned and lost his glory on the 6th Day together with Eve.

Adam was born again or "CREATED spiritually in God's Image" on the 6th Day at the SAME time Eve was "created in God's Image". Gen 1:27 AND Gen 5:1-3

The assertion I posted on this thread says "Made" since Adam was "Made" or formed FIRST becoming a natural living soul and SINNED..... He later was forgiven and redeemed by the Triune of God upon calling the name of the Lord (Gen.4:26)... and by being born again or created Spiritually in the image and likeness of God.. Gen 1:26-27; 5:1-3.

IOW, the False Theory of Evolution is Un-Scriptural, incomplete, and totally Un-True. Humans did NOT evolve from the common ancestor of Apes as Evolutionists Falsely teach.

Continuing with what happened AFTER Adam was made on the 3rd Day before the plants, Scripture again CONFIRMS that it is speaking of the THIRD Day.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


Notice the above verse confirms AGAIN the THIRD Day when the Trees GREW according to:

Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after His kind,(Jesus) and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after His kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the THIRD day.

Your idea that Gen 2:4-7 does NOT speak of the THIRD Day is refuted Scripturally.

God Bless
 
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Justus

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Gen 2:4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Genesis 1:1
"And God said, Let there be light:" Genesis 1:3
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters..." Genesis 1:6
"And God called the firmament Heaven." Genesis 1:8

So if there are 12 hours in the day [See John 11:9] then you need to include the segment of verse 5 with Genesis 2:4; "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew:" in the day. The reason being that it was not until the fourth day that the the two great lights were set in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth.

So if light [See Genesis 1:3]were divided and set in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth [See Genesis 1:14], then how many hours of light are there in a day?




 
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4Pillars

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"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Genesis 1:1
"And God said, Let there be light:" Genesis 1:3
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters..." Genesis 1:6
"And God called the firmament Heaven." Genesis 1:8

So if there are 12 hours in the day [See John 11:9] then you need to include the segment of verse 5 with Genesis 2:4; "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew:" in the day. The reason being that it was not until the fourth day that the the two great lights were set in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth.

So if light [See Genesis 1:3]were divided and set in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth [See Genesis 1:14], then how many hours of light are there in a day?

Each of God's Days in Genesis is NOT 24 hours since the word days comes from the Hebrew word Yowm which can mean 12 or 24 hours, a lifetime or an Eternity. A Day is a period of labor and God has ONLY 6 periods of labor when He is working to make His perfect Heaven and fill it with perfect mankind.

Most people don't know the difference between God's time and man's time
.

God has but 7 Days and Today is the still the 6th Day of Genesis. At the end of this 6th Day, Heaven will be complete, and all believers will be there. When Heaven is brought to Perfection, God will rest for Eternity, the 7th Day, which has No end.

Man's time began on the 4th Day and depends on the movements of the Sun, Moon, and Stars. Since God is present, but also beyond this Universe, He is Not subject to the movements of our Stars. Man's time is temporal and will cease when this Universe is burned. God's time is Eternal.

A Yowm is a period of Labor or work when God is doing His work of creating. There is NO time limit or number of days, years, etc. A good example is the Scriptural Fact that TODAY remains the 6th Creative Day and this Day will NOT end until AFTER our Cosmos is burned which is AFTER Jesus rules and reigns on Earth for a thousand years. Revelation 20:5

The brightness of the glory of our Lord provided the light during the first 3 days of creation.

On the way to Damascus, Saul was blinded by the Light of Jesus, at noon.

Act 26:12-15 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, v13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. v14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. v15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

Jesus, the Son, is the same yesterday, today, and forever. His glory is Brighter than the Noon day Sun

God bless
 
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101G

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The Son of God was at the bosom of the Almighty Father BEFORE the Making of our physical worlds.
He came forth (begotten) into our physical world from the invisible realm of his Father, the 1st time.... when God spoke the“Word” in the Beginning and said, “LET THERE BE LIGHT”, and there was light. (Gen. 1:3)
I must disagree with this assessment. #1 the Son of God is flesh, so how can he be at the bosom of the almighty in creation?.
#2. the Word is the Wisdom of God meaning he is God.
#3. The word of God manifested into the World at John 1:1, not at Genesis 1. supportive scripture, 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life". well John didn't see, touch or hear the word at Genesis 1.
The Son became the only God physically formed or ever shall be physically formed for us to see and witness. He was the great I AM" (YHWH) of the Old Testament and became better known as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.
I cannot agree with that assessment either. "formed?" NO. scripture, Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me". now MANIFESTED into the world, yes.
 

DPMartin

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There are several reasons why I believe that the word used in the Preface of Gen. 1:1 is Heaven and not Heavens (plural).

In the context of the text, I see the narrative as saying:

In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Scriptures were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.


God Bless


but Hebrew translation like the Stone Edition translates to "Heavens" and not "Heaven" as in KJV

anyway how it plays out scientifically is, science says all things of existence are based on five elements time energy space matter and something that started it.

therefore in the first verse:


Gen 1:1 In the beginning (time) God (something that started it, secular view of course) created (energy) the heaven (space, and heavens also works) and the earth (matter).

that's just about as agreeable as it gets between science and Bible. they part ways after that.