Did God Need Jesus' Sacrifice to Make You Acceptable to Him?

[101G]

If it wasn't for Jesus, how many of us would even seek God?

you're correct. for the Father draws us unto himself by Jesus. without Jesus we couldn't be drawn.

Peace in Christ/Yeshua.

 

[bbyrd009]

The promise of coming redemption was issued immediately after the Fall

only there was no Fall, see, you can't point out a Fall to me, i don't think. Can you?

and realized at Christ's first advent.

yes, i think we'll be going over this "realization" part next, as the pop culture story is full of holes there, too imo. Little stuff. Obviously Peter was completely out of...some pertinent loop, right.

The final eradication of sin and death are yet future.

No they aren't; you are just pontificating now, and you do not know wadr. They are for you, prolly, and for me, but you cannot speak to those who have gone before, who may have eradicated sin and death in their lives; in whom Christ was revealed iow.

Scripture clearly shows us this progressive motif. You err in assuming that justice must be immediate, despite the clear and unambiguous teaching of Scripture in this regard.

please, so God cannot abide sinners, but there is a Time Lag lol. Adam and Eve sinned, but God was just completely oblivious of it, and wasn't all caught up yet, @ "Who told you that you were naked?" right. Justice was supposedly when they were "kicked out" of the Garden, yes? You err in assuming that salvation is immediate, most likely, or in most cases, imo, but then that is a choice, too, and you are welcome to believe whatever comes out of that bought and paid for mouth, ok. Wadr for my part until you evidence that you know a little less than you are letting on now i'll remain sceptical tx.

Now, if you're still reading and would like to demonstrate a "Fall," especially right after the concept of "fall" had just been challenged, you might go and look, then give it a shot if you like, and i'm not meaning to say you can't believe any of that religious stuff if you want, ok, but you might wanna at least challenge it instead of regurgitating it from On High like you're doing ok. You do not know, either.

 

[bbyrd009]

despite the clear and unambiguous teaching of Scripture in this regard.

this is generally a big flag that one is on a bad path, wadr. There is nothing unambiguous in Scripture, and i'll post the refute to your vv when they come to mind ok.

1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

wow this one is really interesting; Christ's reign will end? I'll have to check that out. Hopefully the vv that contrast this are obvious now, yes? i can go dig up a few if you need them though

 

[bbyrd009]

Hahaha,
Have I ever realized it...and way more about all the gifts! Let's start a list!
...wink...
Blessed? Oh my!

It would make a massive list, for sure.......Brilliant !

i think i have gotten myself on to a better thread here, yes

 

[bbyrd009]

Since the "Samaritan" would have been from Samaria, which was the place in which the "kings of Israel" [as opposed to the kings of Judah] reigned. To make a point of a "Samaritan" [one of the house of Israel] as being "better" than those of the house of Judah, would have been a slap in the face. However those of the house of Israel, where also a part of that covenant before they went astray. Thus from my perspective, it is not quite accurate to say that one was not called to enter any covenant. But, that is merely my perspective and opinion.

well, i doubt that every Israelite was repped by the Priest and the Levite, but imo the OT makes a very good case for "This is the Way to Fail as a Nation" regardless, bc they all basically got slapped, right. They could not keep their covenant, and so holding them up as an example ultimately fails, iow. And the GS apparently did have a better "covenant," from a certain pov, the one God approved of, so you are back to being right from that pov i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

In the passing over of the Exodus, it was the blood of the pesakh lamb that provided a "covering" so to speak from the destroyer. The Feast of the Passover is also known as the Feast of the "Sparing".

For as the blood applied to the head and sides of the door "by faith" [by faith in that it required both belief and action] provided a "covering / skipping over / passing over" from the destroyer, so also does the Blood of the Lamb provide a covering over or a passing over of our thoughts and actions done aforetime, when we did not know "God". A covering or passing over, a skipping over or "sparing" by faith in the Blood, from the destruction that would / should have rightly been ours.

Thus, the "door" as you put it.

a good point imo, personally i think the "aforetime" was more of a judicial device to address peoples' grievances about past sins done to them, as we can witness that many ppl seek Christ who have done terrible things in their past, and may not so easily leave them at the altar, so to speak, but being as i don't know there, i guess it is possible that some ppl can, so maybe.

but imo it is more pertinent to realize what happened to all but 2 (or 3, with Moses) of those, after their "salvation" experience @ Passover. A million+ ppl "found Jesus" and then went and perished in the Wilderness, right.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well that is a pointless question: did God need Christ to make me ok to Him?

then why do you suppose it is getting so much resistance?

How do you know this is all about humanity.

boy, i don't know anything, but "For God so loved the world" at least suggests this to me

Maybe it is about the Son.

can't disagree there, if one does not become like the Son, they are likely going to regret not doing so, yes

 

[bbyrd009]

If it wasn't for Jesus, how many of us would even seek God?

yes; now perhaps "The Son of Man must be raised up like a snake on a pole..." might be realized for what it is really saying.

 

[bbyrd009]

you're correct. for the Father draws us unto himself by Jesus. without Jesus we couldn't be drawn.

or at least wouldn't be drawn, dunno about couldn't.

So then another way to express that is "the more bloodthirsty among you will of course need a Sacrifice in order to bring you to some beginning understanding of self-denial; even though many or most of these will just pass on the actual self-denial part, and make an idol out of Christ anyway."

 

[Miss Hepburn]

....."The Son of Man must be raised up like a snake on a pole..."
might be realized for what it is really saying.

You mention this so much...are you really into the kundalini or something?
If not, what are you referring to exactly?

 

[101G]

or at least wouldn't be drawn, dunno about couldn't.

So then another way to express that is "the more bloodthirsty among you will of course need a Sacrifice in order to bring you to some beginning understanding of self-denial; even though many or most of these will just pass on the actual self-denial part, and make an idol out of Christ anyway."

no, couldn't, because he is the way. wouldn't could be indicator of another way. no need to response.

 

[bbyrd009]

You mention this so much...are you really into the kundalini or something?
If not, what are you referring to exactly?

ha no on the kundalini, i had to go ask google there. and what am i referring to is that Jesus is intentionally referring to Nehushtan here, right, but now go and ask 100 "Christians"--virtually all of whom will also evince a belief in the Bible as the Word, or as Holy, right--who Nehushtan even is.

So we have like a...like the same concept as those who rely on the Rule of Law scoffing at it, see. i guess i won't be able to make the point here without flossing a little, sorry, but see i don't scoff at the Rule of Law, bc being Anarchist i cannot afford to; when you got no DL and no plates, you just nail the exact speed limit out of self preservation if nothing else, see.

and similarly i am not anxious to be identified as a Christian, if Christian means "Good News! If you don't do exactly as i say, you're all going to hell!" yet i know who Nehushtan is, for the same reason basically.

 

[bbyrd009]

no, couldn't, because he is the way. wouldn't could be indicator of another way. no need to response.

except the Good Samaritan kinda blows all that up, huh. No need to respond here

you might go and review the parable of the Vineyard Owner with Two Sons, too. That first son, giving you the finger there, is not interested in your Jesus, see, doesn't even wanna hear about Him. Now, imo he is still channelling Christ, obviously, but nonetheless you would not be able to get him to agree in your religious conversations, see, your perspective of Christ on a Cross would be repugnant to him, yet he is accepted.

You do not get to define Christ for me, iow, no matter how convinced you might be; and i am not holding you to any definition anyway, if i am judging by the fruit.

hope this helped

 

[VictoryinJesus]

boy, i don't know anything, but "For God so loved the world" at least suggests this to me

Why not go ahead and finish it: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Would God "give" something so precious if it were not needed? I don't think so.

 

[bbyrd009]

no, couldn't, because he is the way. wouldn't could be indicator of another way. no need to response.

so see how the religious cannot discern Nehushtan--using you as a proxy here--yet they have a strict definition of "Jesus" that i must agree to, or be condemned. This is "the blind leading the blind."

 

[Miss Hepburn]

bbbyrd, do you think you could ans that pole and snake thing again, but think of me as,
I dunno...an 88 yr old or an 8 yr old...as simple and clear as possible?
What is it, where is it referenced, by whom and all that stuff.
if you wanted you could also picture me as mentally handicapped...so speak slowly.
Thanks.
I have noticed in life, smart people often do not realize we are not on the same wavelength..
thus, are not the best teachers. Not meant to be a criticism, an observation in life...

 

[bbyrd009]

Would God "give" something so precious if it were not needed? I don't think so.

well, i completely agree, Christ was needed, that is not in dispute. That it is so "precious" to you ends up being the whole point there though, see; physical death is meaningless to God, Who can make believers out of rocks if He wants to, and can give and take life at will. You needed a sacrifice, and so you got one. And if Nehushtan is sufficient for you, you will worship Jesus instead of manifesting Christ--the common "you" here ok, i doubt that describes you.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

What bb, said...
I also can go along with Man needed a sacrifice, to open and move into
or out of a spiritually Dark Age, so to speak...thousands of years that was the
paradigm*, after all.

* sacrifice, blood, burnt offerings, fear of God in general, do it this way, on this day or
you are bad in the eyes of God stuff...

 

[bbyrd009]

bbbyrd, do you think you could ans that pole and snake thing again, but think of me as,
I dunno...an 88 yr old or an 8 yr old...as simple and clear as possible?
What is it, where is it referenced, by whom and all that stuff.
if you wanted you could also picture me as mentally handicapped...so speak slowly.
Thanks.
I have noticed in life, smart people often do not realize we are not on the same wavelength..
thus, are not the best teachers. Not meant to be a criticism, an observation in life...

ya, i'm terrible, i know this, and i am really only good for dancing, isn't that a neat gift to have lol.

ok, part 1 is in the Wilderness, when the Hebs have kicked and complained enough, about...basically everything under the sun, you can review for the straw that broke the back, but at that point God sends "snakes" among them to bite them and kill them, and the only way they can live after being bitten is to "look" at a brass snake on a pole that Moses had to make, and set in the center of the camp. So, Numbers 21:8, please note the search terms at the top of that search, i just highlighted right out of my own post there, iow you can do the same, at any spot you have a Q, you don't really even need me iow, and i'm prolly violating "seek" here anyway. a little.

anyway, then the snake basically disappears, right. It's a brief little passage in Numbers, and it's gone; the snake does not even have a name at this point, even though it is supposedly a manifestation of Christ, and this is important, but it is for a different discussion. The snake is "bronze," which is also meaningful, iow an amal...a mixing of two metals, which should also ring some bells, but again diff thread.

So anyway, the Hebs go and do...what they were destined to do, which is refuse to follow and die, all those million+ people who were after all there for Passover, right, they got them some Jesus, or got covered by The Blood, they were all there for The Miracle iow, only they died anyway.

So fast forward to the first generations in the Promised Land, worshipping Nehushtan, 2 Kings 18:4, where the priest has to "break up" Nehushtan because the children are worshipping it, just like most ppl are worshipping Jesus today, see.

Then the final installment is when Christ likens His death to being raised up "like a snake on a pole," which is misinterpreted by most people (or rather not interpreted at all, basically skimmed over iow), because Nehushtan has been hidden from them, and i'm prolly not sposed to be even doing all this, except i'm so hard to get anyway that maybe that will be ok lol

 

[Miss Hepburn]

bb, thank you....OMgosh ...you gave a LINK!
Bless you.