Why did God need to give us free will, or did He need to? Do we really have it?

[bbyrd009]

God "created" time, and it has an end and is passing away.

toooooooo-morrow, to-morrow...

The words of scripture do not describe time, they describe God...dimly.

if a thousand years is like a day, there is still the "like a day" part for you to confront i guess

But the best definition of time...is death.

and here we have it, essentially. You deem Creation "death?"
i do not like your philosophy, ScottA

 

[bbyrd009]

sorry to hog the page, i guess i do this a lot? if it is a prob, someone pls let me know

 

[ScottA]

if a thousand years is like a day, there is still the "like a day" part for you to confront i guess

"Today."

and here we have it, essentially. You deem Creation "death?"
i do not like your philosophy, ScottA

"...for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

This is not my philosophy, but the word of God since the beginning...just as I have been telling you.

 

[Helen]

sorry to hog the page, i guess i do this a lot? if it is a prob, someone pls let me know

I used to find it annoying...but I must say when reading your responses to Richard I am now finding it is easier to follow when you take one point at a time in a post...rather than one L O N G post answering all his points one by one.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Today."
"...for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

This is not my philosophy, but the word of God since the beginning...just as I have been telling you.

this seems to deny that life is here also though. this is where all of the life is, even

 

[ScottA]

this seems to deny that life is here also though. this is where all of the life is, even

We were "cast out", "captives" in the "world" which is "passing away." Life is not in the world, but in God. But don't confuse the world with the new earth - the old earth and world are accursed, but the new earth is not...but then, it is not "here."

 

[Richard_oti]

Sorry...gotta do this:

"Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift?" Matthew 23:19

God "created" time, and it has an end and is passing away. The words of scripture do not describe time, they describe God...dimly. But the best definition of time...is death. While God is life.

So when the "new heavens" and the "new earth" come to be: Shall the "new earth" rotate upon an axis, shall the earth have an orbit? Or shall the earth be "static", an "image".

 

[Richard_oti]

ha i don't even try, bc i don't want to limit God there, and imo that's kinda how it ends up working, seems like?
You wanna "mansion in the sky" pal, ok, no prob; but boy are you gonna be sorry lol

Ain't interested in a "mansion". Of course, if I am honest, I ain't sure that I am truly interested in a monotone / monochrome everlasting life either. [That oughta raise a few eyebrows]

can't help but see maybe a description of someone moving at lightspeed here v someone not, a la one of Einstein's thought experiments on Clocks, but mostly i notice at the moment that we repeat the first part, but we don't rep...we drop the second part, no one repeats it? as truth, iow? hmm.

Speed up an image fast enough, and the image disappears.

 

[Richard_oti]

"after it has been presented" hmm...what truth you got that has been presented to you, Richard? :)
gimme an example

The "light" of Genesis 1:3.

 

[Richard_oti]

i suggest a big, a huge trick is being played here; bc i have noticed that good overcomes evil, meaning that even ppl previously considered tares respond to a shepherd, in a like a "you get what you give" kind of thing. If you show them forgiveness after they test you--and they are gonna test you, take advantage some kind of way, to see your reaction--it just works a change in them, when you don't call cops or get flustered or whatever, and don't even bring it up?

That is testimony. Not mere words, but actions, which speak louder than words.

i'd love to testify here, but my style would make it hard to follow, and a lengthy post too...anyway, when they are faced with forgiveness rather than what they have gotten their whole lives, a miracle happens. Sure, you lost your whatever, tv, or whatever they got, but forgiveness somehow takes care of that too right, you end up with a bigger tv usually lol. Kind of a bad example, i have moved on from tvs now...ya, and any more testifying from me is gonna sound like bragging i guess lol, but suffice it to say that there are more rungs on that ladder, i have no "tv" to take now, yet they still come, one or two at a time, been turned away everywhere else...and of course a "believer" would not go near them, right, they cross to the other side of the road

Yeah, well I was castigated for not crossing to the other side. I still won't / don't.

 

[Richard_oti]

well, you changed the subject there, Richard, but imo no, i would not, regardless.

for now i'll stick with "you are made into a liar when they change their minds," until you repop

you lost me here, as i assume that you have put yourself in their place for an example, and i don't know where i am in this, sorry.

I cast myself in both instances, first in the place of being the "unbeliever / athiest" and then as a "believer". I cast you as the "judge" in both instances.

To know that someone is an atheist, does not make you a liar should they change. You already have a strong "opinion" with regard to some here. Should they [the fruit] change, would you become a liar in that "opinion"?

 

[Richard_oti]

aren't they two men in a field, too? Don't they have an inner and an outer man, too? speak to the inner man, and the inner man will respond. Speak to the outer man, and the outer man will respond. you become the director in some weird way, when you stop trying to be the director. And of course most everyone yearns for this place at the table, i guess? but i...yearn for the low seat now, lol--only spot you can sneak out back for a smoke! :)

Yeah, well I stick to a more literal reading of "two men in a bed". If I were even granted a place at the table, I would be content even with the lowest of places, or merely being the servant of the table. Otherwise, find me out back.

 

[Richard_oti]

ya, there sure is, it resides in the way you have judged them, and it is evident in your face when you look at them with your eyes, i guess. The difference is judgement, and the only solution is forgiveness. We fear the tares bc we, what? Fear for our tvs? lol

I don't fear tares. Nor do I define things as you do. For "tares" from my perspective, make an "appearance" of righteousness, but not true righteousness. They are different than those who make no such attempt.

The difference deconstructs when you treat them different, see, and you heap burning coals on their heads. That is the only way i know to cause tongues of fire up there that i know anyway. the difference is in the mirror, Richard. ha imo you are just baiting me, you already know all this lol

<chuckle>

 

[ScottA]

So when the "new heavens" and the "new earth" come to be: Shall the "new earth" rotate upon an axis, shall the earth have an orbit? Or shall the earth be "static", an "image".

According to God's word there will be no night, but everlasting day, no shadow of turning. But I would not consider it static, and would not discount the idea of image, for Christ was the image of God the Father and became glorious even in the sight of men.

 

[truthquest]

There are people who have experienced having free will and then these people at other times experienced not having free will because their free will was taken from them but not by God. Therefore these people know and understand the difference between having free will and not having free will. Maybe it's something that has to be experienced to be understood.

 

[bbyrd009]

Speed up an image fast enough, and the image disappears.

ha ya, it's possible "surrounded by a cloud of witnesses" might be more literal than we realize huh

 

[bbyrd009]

The "light" of Genesis 1:3.

"there was light," so see we could even debate that

wouldn't the proper syntax--bein as how we still supposedly got it to this day, right, is your assertion--be "...and there is light?"

 

[bbyrd009]

You already have a strong "opinion" with regard to some here.

do i? no one stands out to me, not sure what you mean here. fwiw i would take those as statements of my understanding at that moment, about that moment, and if i ever give any other impression disregard it imo

Should they [the fruit] change, would you become a liar in that "opinion"?

but good point, i generally assume that no one else holds opinions of others in the manner i just described, when that may not be true. So iow it depends upon the observer, and their intent when they make the statement, which their meaning can generally be assumed by their syntax, etc. Harder not in person, of course

 

[bbyrd009]

There are people who have experienced having free will and then these people at other times experienced not having free will because their free will was taken from them. Therefore these people know and understand the difference between having free will and not having free will. Maybe it's something that has to be experienced to be understood.

ya, i tried to push that the other day, can a slave have free will, but no one was buyin then?

ntmy btw, yikes, can i call you OG? :)

 

[truthquest]

ya, i tried to push that the other day, can a slave have free will, but no one was buyin then?

ntmy btw, yikes, can i call you OG? :)

Well, yes I suppose that those who take people's free will or find ways to overcome people's free will through various methods, do view those people as slaves. But what I'm referring to is a very deep rabbit hole.

I looked up OG and the results were comical.
Original gangster
Old gangsta
Office of the guard
Ocean Grown
Oprah's Guest

So which one am I?