Why did God need to give us free will, or did He need to? Do we really have it?

[bbyrd009]

I concur that "time" as we know it, was created for us.

you say "concur," but see that "time does not exist" is not concurrent with that at all, "created time" has already been denied, see, God created time, right, but if you are smarter than God, you don't have to believe that i guess

you don't even have to get out of bed, right, i mean why do that if you can watch the same movie from your bed

 

[FHII]

i gotta ask, in all honesty, if you at any time paid anyone any money for this knowledge that you hold so dear? Full disclosure does not seem to much to ask imo

I don't attack or insult anyone's character. I don't insult anyone's Church or Pastor. I will attack doctrines and comment on history. I do so carefully as to not put it on the person but the doctrine, philosophy or idea.

In another post you called me double minded. I let that slide. This I will not let slide. I find this highly insulting and will not put up with it.

I had a response to all you posted, but you are not going to get to read it.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't attack or insult anyone's character.

i would not either, it is an honest question

 

[bbyrd009]

In another post you called me double minded. I let that slide. This I will not let slide. I find this highly insulting and will not put up with it.

well then i apologize, and i thought i made it obvious that that applied to everyone, me as well, anyone who has an outer man fading away and an inner man growing, or two men in a field or a bed, however you wish to put it

and i just went back and looked, and i did not call you dbl minded

If you can accept that you are double-minded...

 

[bbyrd009]

While I understand what you are saying regarding "beliefs", for "tares" from my perspective are faux "believers". Those with the appearance of "wheat", but who aren't actual wheat. Those who refused to love the truth.

Of course, the answer to that, varies so widely that I must wonder if anyone really knows.

well, i guess you understand that i wasn't trying to give a definitive answer there anyway, but the point i hoped to make is that if you consider tares to be ppl--as is encouraged, apparently--rather than behaviors, you are going to run into trouble down the road. Bam define tares however one likes; call them weeds if you want to too, i guess

 

[Richard_oti]

I understand the difficulty. But the scriptures, Christ, and the apostles all dispel the myth of time, saying, "today" in many forms. And those forms do not include "properties" so much as they establish the true nature of manifestation of what is more properly called an "image."

When you first posted that, I did not immediately respond, likewise again, I waited before replying.

"Today", if you hear His voice. In other words, do not wait, hesitate or put it off until tomorrow.

Light still requires a given measure of time to travel from point A to point B. To remove the "properties" of light, that by which light is light: Is it still light.

An "image", is not a thing, but rather a representation of a thing. It is not the true thing.


Psa 84:10a For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand.

Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight Are but as yesterday
when it is past, And as a watch in the night.

2Pe 3:8 But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with
the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

According to the above, it is not "timeless" eternity. For a "measure" has been put to it.

 

[Richard_oti]

oh pls, sure we can, we call it "death," and we accept that we will all go to Sheol, dirt nap, "rest" etc, and not return

With regard to "death", that "eternity" I can fathom, the state of non-existence. But with regard to "everlasting" life, that "eternity" and the measure thereof, is beyond my ability to grasp.

 

[Richard_oti]

you say "concur," but see that "time does not exist" is not concurrent with that at all, "created time" has already been denied, see, God created time, right, but if you are smarter than God, you don't have to believe that i guess

you don't even have to get out of bed, right, i mean why do that if you can watch the same movie from your bed

Time as we know it, is from my perspective created for us. However, it is also clear that it is not the exclusive measure of time. Upon another planet, the measure of a "day" or a "year" as measured / defined upon earth, would not be the same.

Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight Are but as yesterday
when it is past, And as a watch in the night.

2Pe 3:8 But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with
the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[Richard_oti]

well, i guess you understand that i wasn't trying to give a definitive answer there anyway,

Yes, I understand that.

but the point i hoped to make is that if you consider tares to be ppl--as is encouraged, apparently--rather than behaviors, you are going to run into trouble down the road. Bam define tares however one likes; call them weeds if you want to too, i guess

Yet, are not tares people with given behaviors? Darnel [lolium temulentum] aka faux wheat, resembles wheat. It is poisonous and has been used for it's intoxicating qualities. Perhaps we could liken those "slain in the spirit" barking likes dogs type gatherings to people being intoxicated upon darnel. The "tares", shall be those who cry "Lord Lord". Having an appearance of being "wheat", but sorted out at the harvest.

 

[Richard_oti]

doesn't that describe you, once?

Perhaps, perhaps not. Is there a difference between being ignorant of or not knowing "truth" and rejecting it after it has been presented?

Could ppl behaving badly be described as "tares?" Sure

Indeed. Yet there is a difference, for tares have the appearance of wheat. They don't appear as say barley. Darnel, is called faux wheat, for it has the appearance of wheat. Just as those who cry "Lord Lord" will have had the appearance of wheat.

Tares IMO do not describe those outside of "religion", say such as atheists, who have or make no appearance of wheat.

but aren't you made into a liar when they change their minds?

No. If I were a hardcore atheist or anti-christ, you would be correct in judging me as such. If I were to change and come to belief, would you not also change your mind?

See, you can use "tares" for ppl if you like, but hopefully the argument that you have just judged someone by doing that is apparent?

It is indeed apparent.

And of course when you later find a tare in your field, you must then consider your entire self a tare too, right

Who knows, perhaps I am a tare. Should we reject the head of wheat for a blemish on the stem? For I am convinced there is not one who possesses the whole "truth", that is without a blemish or few. But there is a difference between those who are blemished, and those who only appear to be wheat.

 

[ScottA]

When you first posted that, I did not immediately respond, likewise again, I waited before replying.

"Today", if you hear His voice. In other words, do not wait, hesitate or put it off until tomorrow.

Light still requires a given measure of time to travel from point A to point B. To remove the "properties" of light, that by which light is light: Is it still light.

An "image", is not a thing, but rather a representation of a thing. It is not the true thing.


Psa 84:10a For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand.

Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight Are but as yesterday
when it is past, And as a watch in the night.

2Pe 3:8 But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with
the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

According to the above, it is not "timeless" eternity. For a "measure" has been put to it.

Sorry...gotta do this:

"Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift?" Matthew 23:19

God "created" time, and it has an end and is passing away. The words of scripture do not describe time, they describe God...dimly. But the best definition of time...is death. While God is life.

 

[bbyrd009]

With regard to "death", that "eternity" I can fathom, the state of non-existence. But with regard to "everlasting" life, that "eternity" and the measure thereof, is beyond my ability to grasp.

ha i don't even try, bc i don't want to limit God there, and imo that's kinda how it ends up working, seems like?
You wanna "mansion in the sky" pal, ok, no prob; but boy are you gonna be sorry lol

2Pe 3:8 But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with
the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

can't help but see maybe a description of someone moving at lightspeed here v someone not, a la one of Einstein's thought experiments on Clocks, but mostly i notice at the moment that we repeat the first part, but we don't rep...we drop the second part, no one repeats it? as truth, iow? hmm.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yet, are not tares people with given behaviors? Darnel [lolium temulentum] aka faux wheat, resembles wheat. It is poisonous and has been used for it's intoxicating qualities. Perhaps we could liken those "slain in the spirit" barking likes dogs type gatherings to people being intoxicated upon darnel. The "tares", shall be those who cry "Lord Lord". Having an appearance of being "wheat", but sorted out at the harvest.

hey, i believed that for years, that's what they teach in law school, right, go with whatcha know, i am not the one lol

if you dig a pit for a man, you end up falling in it yourself

 

[bbyrd009]

Is there a difference between being ignorant of or not knowing "truth" and rejecting it after it has been presented?

"after it has been presented" hmm...what truth you got that has been presented to you, Richard?
gimme an example

 

[bbyrd009]

Indeed. Yet there is a difference, for tares have the appearance of wheat. They don't appear as say barley. Darnel, is called faux wheat, for it has the appearance of wheat. Just as those who cry "Lord Lord" will have had the appearance of wheat.

God had hated Esau, too, hmm; i used to cry LordLord, maybe not you, dunno, but i did for years.

i suggest a big, a huge trick is being played here; bc i have noticed that good overcomes evil, meaning that even ppl previously considered tares respond to a shepherd, in a like a "you get what you give" kind of thing. If you show them forgiveness after they test you--and they are gonna test you, take advantage some kind of way, to see your reaction--it just works a change in them, when you don't call cops or get flustered or whatever, and don't even bring it up?

i'd love to testify here, but my style would make it hard to follow, and a lengthy post too...anyway, when they are faced with forgiveness rather than what they have gotten their whole lives, a miracle happens. Sure, you lost your whatever, tv, or whatever they got, but forgiveness somehow takes care of that too right, you end up with a bigger tv usually lol. Kind of a bad example, i have moved on from tvs now...ya, and any more testifying from me is gonna sound like bragging i guess lol, but suffice it to say that there are more rungs on that ladder, i have no "tv" to take now, yet they still come, one or two at a time, been turned away everywhere else...and of course a "believer" would not go near them, right, they cross to the other side of the road

 

[bbyrd009]

Tares IMO do not describe those outside of "religion", say such as atheists, who have or make no appearance of wheat.

ah, i'll have to let the Good Samaritan know that

 

[bbyrd009]

Sure, but aren't you made into a liar when they change their minds?

No. If I were a hardcore atheist or anti-christ, you would be correct in judging me as such.

well, you changed the subject there, Richard, but imo no, i would not, regardless.

for now i'll stick with "you are made into a liar when they change their minds," until you repop

If I were to change and come to belief, would you not also change your mind?

you lost me here, as i assume that you have put yourself in their place for an example, and i don't know where i am in this, sorry.

 

[bbyrd009]

But there is a difference between those who are blemished, and those who only appear to be wheat.

aren't they two men in a field, too? Don't they have an inner and an outer man, too? speak to the inner man, and the inner man will respond. Speak to the outer man, and the outer man will respond. you become the director in some weird way, when you stop trying to be the director. And of course most everyone yearns for this place at the table, i guess? but i...yearn for the low seat now, lol--only spot you can sneak out back for a smoke!

 

[bbyrd009]

For I am convinced there is not one who possesses the whole "truth"

Tares IMO do not describe those outside of "religion", say such as atheists, who have or make no appearance of wheat.

ahem

 

[bbyrd009]

But there is a difference between those who are blemished, and those who only appear to be wheat.

ya, there sure is, it resides in the way you have judged them, and it is evident in your face when you look at them with your eyes, i guess. The difference is judgement, and the only solution is forgiveness. We fear the tares bc we, what? Fear for our tvs? lol

The difference deconstructs when you treat them different, see, and you heap burning coals on their heads. That is the only way i know to cause tongues of fire up there that i know anyway. the difference is in the mirror, Richard. ha imo you are just baiting me, you already know all this lol