The proof of OSAS

[Helen]

hmm
i would mostly like to raise the issue of how we like automatically include ourselves in this "group," as you have done? You get that the point of the "I am doing God's will" meme is that even obviously evil-doers claim to be following God, iow if even they can justify this, how much easier might it be for someone without overt sin?

No one "automatically includes theirself"
We know by pinching our leg that we were born into this world.And we are aware of this world around us.
It is no different when we are born into the Spirit. We are 'aware' very much of the realm we have been born into.
We recognize Family Members because they have the fingerprints of God on their lives.
I didn't "count myself in", God did.
Eph 5:8 "For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light."
1 Pet 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light."
You said:- "obviously evil-doers claim to be following God." "if even they can justify this, how much easier might it be for someone without overt sin?"
True, we know they do. But there is nothing you can do about that. (except pray) that is their business with God, not ours.
It is US who are accountable for ourselves. We are not accountable for the sins or actions of another.

If we stop looking at how someone else is walking or living, and get on with attending to our own vineyard we do better...they have to get their own weeds out of their vineyard. Just like the parable of the talents...each man had to give account of what he did with what was given to him by the Master.
If we keep being concerned with what's happening around us..we neglect being about our Fathers business and tending "our" Garden within.
The devil loves distractions...it's one of his tools.
If someone else is a false wolf-believe, that is his business if he chooses to say he is a believer...( we have had 'em on this site) ...that is why the Holy Spirit anoints us with the ability to 'discern spirits' both the good ones and the bad.
We are equipped.

 

[bbyrd009]

k, i'm gonna go with "i agree!" here Helen, but you might review the etymology of "talent," your def comes straight from some bloodthirsty pope wadr

bb
rytahs.
rytah.
Think the Beatles.
Got anything?
Wryhtah, maybe?

ya, Rollo told me already, or i'd still prolly be looking for acronyms lol

 

[bbyrd009]

If you have had some sort of life changing experience and you now know for sure that the Spirit of God dwells within you, then you are saved.

wadr Scripture does not agree. Mushrooms are a life changing experience, yes? Hitler advertised that the Spirit dwelled within himself. etc.

he who says he knows anything does not yet know as he ought

 

[bbyrd009]

I like Muslims, as long as they're not following their religion.
If they are - I don't like them.
Not because I'm automatically pre-judicial of them, but because I tend not to like persons that do not like me and, in fact, hate me.

before you got here i challenged the forum to witness any personal sins committed upon them by any Muslims; no takers yet.
But i guess this will change soon, things being they way they are (gov mixing cultures for us, after destroying Muslim homelands iow)
sooner or later someone crying Allah Akbar will inevitably encroach upon our personal lives as well, i s'pose. Never mind that their behavior will be condemned in their Book, Page 1, i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

If they were deceived how do I know I am not being deceived?

confession is made unto salvation

 

[bbyrd009]

NO it doesn't.
It says that muslims are not to kill anyone. When M killed many and other stuff.
But then, practically the next page (can't remember the numbers) it says to try to convert the infidels, and if they can't be, to kill them.

that is to be read in the context of the Beginning of Sur'ahs though, see, and if you want to pick out isolated vv from their text, you should be prepared to answer some Qs from our own, bashing babies heads in, in Psalms, etc

(note to Mullah)

 

[bbyrd009]

WE are the infidels !

imo you are whom you identify with, and "Christians" are obviously running the world at the moment;
the US imported many Nazis into the political infrastructure (ref 'Project Paperclip'), etc

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, I've watched the videos, heard the stories, debated the debates but no one, not anyone, has ever provided convincing proof that OSAS is wrong.
And why would they want to?
Why is it important to tell someone that God's promise isn't true, but you have to continue to work your way to heaven to make it there.
The only proof one needs is the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

2 Kings 2:3b; "Do you know that the Lord is going to take your master from you today"?
This is a question that Elijah asked Elisha several times.
And then Elijah went up to heaven in a whirl wind.
Question: How did Elijah know he was going to heaven?

Psalm 23: 6b; "..and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever".
Question: How did David know he would dwell in the House of the Lord forever?

2 Timothy 4:7-8; "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing."
Question: How did Paul know his fate and how did he know to promise the same to us?

The answer to these questions is being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
If you think you can lose your salvation, then maybe you can.

OSAS is an invention of MEN like John Calvin in the 16th century.
This farce has been passed down to Protestants for 500 years. Unfortunately for those who believe it - The Word of God squashes this myth . . .

As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a deaf, dumb and blind person . . .

Matt. 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’."

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God take away somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

Bottom line: Just because a drowning person is saved by a passing boat - does NOT mean that they don't have the choice to jump off the boat.

 

[GodsGrace]

k, i'm gonna go with "i agree!" here Helen, but you might review the etymology of "talent," your def comes straight from some bloodthirsty pope wadr

ya, Rollo told me already, or i'd still prolly be looking for acronyms lol

Be forewarned:
He kids around a lot.
Except for when he's serious.

 

[GodsGrace]

before you got here i challenged the forum to witness any personal sins committed upon them by any Muslims; no takers yet.
But i guess this will change soon, things being they way they are (gov mixing cultures for us, after destroying Muslim homelands iow)
sooner or later someone crying Allah Akbar will inevitably encroach upon our personal lives as well, i s'pose. Never mind that their behavior will be condemned in their Book, Page 1, i guess

Oh. You want I should give you examples?
Maybe 3 by me personally. Not anything too bad, but different from what we hill folk are used to and THEY won't change to join us in our ingrained habits. I also know that a lot of the habits are personal, as some as with hatred for being in a country where you're not liked and/or accepted. My muslim friend is married to an Italian. He met her in Morocco. They got married here. Have two kids. She's so nice. She doesn't follow her religion but is still looked upon with doubt as to what she believes. I feel the same TTYTT. I hate that, but how do I make it go away with all that happens?

I'd give you some graphic examples, but I'd rather not. Urninating has something to do with it, praying in the middle of the street has something to do with it, not moving to make way for others has something to do with it, not respecting existing customs. Try going to SA and having a beer in the open. Maybe it's changed today, not sure about that --- but the rest is RIGHT NOW. I'm sure the beer is still holding true too.

I don't talk from reading the newspapers. This is personal experience or the experience of close friends. The world is changing and quietly and not for the better.

Syria. Nothing left. The U.S. govt. True on that too. We're good at ruining everything. I blame satan for all this. Go back far enough and there he is, laughing at us.

As for page one. Yeah. But there's that other page...

 

[bbyrd009]

Be forewarned:
He kids around a lot.
Except for when he's serious.

be forewarned; he skips a lot of questions
lol

 

[bbyrd009]

My muslim friend is married to an Italian. He met her in Morocco. They got married here. Have two kids. She's so nice. She doesn't follow her religion but is still looked upon with doubt as to what she believes. I feel the same TTYTT. I hate that, but how do I make it go away with all that happens?

by not marrying outside your culture? i mean, why not just beg God for cancer or something lol, the advice in Scripture is very plain here imo. None of my business, but i doubt what she believes too! And him, no less. doesn't mean i would look down on them, but who needs all of the inevitable drama? Even if they were both Atheist, see, the cultural diff would be crippling imo

 

[GodsGrace]

that is to be read in the context of the Beginning of Sur'ahs though, see, and if you want to pick out isolated vv from their text, you should be prepared to answer some Qs from our own, bashing babies heads in, in Psalms, etc

(note to Mullah)

Much stuff in the O.T.
Written by men who were supposedly inspired.
I say supposedly because it doesn't seem as though all were.
NO LETTERS PLEASE. I believe the bible entirely, just not what men wrote.

The Qur'an was written by A HUMAN PERSON who wrote what HE wanted to say. Supposedly by God, but we know better.

Also, compare M to Jesus.
See any difference?

So it's not the same bb.

 

[GodsGrace]

be forewarned; he skips a lot of questions
lol

YOU'RE TELLING ME!!!!

 

[bbyrd009]

Syria. Nothing left. The U.S. govt. True on that too. We're good at ruining everything.

the US has a tried and true, time honored tradition of pitting everyone else against each other, and i am sorry that Italy would even consider paying this cost without suing NATO in the Hague for contributing to Muslim emigration

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Mary,
He's not saying to sin. I don't believe those that believe in eternal security are saying this.

What RT is saying is that he doesn't believe a REAL CHRISTIAN could ever abandon God.

Now, I know I've tried with him. Do you have any proof of a person being saved and then deciding, for whatever reason, to abandon God?
I've tried. I agree with you, BTW.

Who's RT?

 

[GodsGrace]

the US has a tried and true, time honored tradition of pitting everyone else against each other, and i am sorry that Italy would even consider paying this cost without suing NATO in the Hague for contributing to Muslim emigration

We've lost all sovereignty. Let's not even go there.
Why do you suppose there have been no terrorist attacks in Italy?
Maybe because we allow all these refugees to come into Europe through here? Maybe because we get paid? Maybe because we go pick them up almost at Lybian waters so as not to make more bodies float in the water?
Some SHOULD be harbored --- but not some. And no one bothers to notice the difference.

 

[GodsGrace]

Who's RT?

Oh stop already.
You know who you are.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hi Rollo,

I apologize. I guess I didn't make my thoughts clear. I am not saying that you said it. It is what I am saying.

My point is the OSAS theory allows one to sin boldly and sin often since you have no fear of going to hell. FYI....No one is swaying me. I am just stating a fact. If your saved, your not going to hell. That means you can sin boldly and sin as often as you want.

What is your definition of a life changing experience? How do I know when "the Spirit of God" is truly dwelling in me? There have been a lot of people (Arius, Martin Luther, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell) who thought He was dwelling in them and they all teach different (and heretical) things from the same bible. ALOT of people believed them and followed them. If they were deceived how do I know I am not being deceived?

Curious Mary

Well, for one, Joseph Smith believed he was speaking to demons, there is a written letter by him proving it.
Charles Russell was a liar and a thief, spent time in prison, and could never in a court of law even recognize one letter from the Greek Alphabet.
Don't know about the others, but a person's Christian character is recognized by the fruit he bears.
Tough to do online but not impossible.
The closer you draw to God, the more you recognize in others.

 

[GodsGrace]

Well, for one, Joseph Smith believed he was speaking to demons, there is a written letter by him proving it.
Charles Russell was a liar and a thief, spent time in prison, and could never in a court of law even recognize one letter from the Greek Alphabet.
Don't know about the others, but a person's Christian character is recognized by the fruit he bears.
Tough to do online but not impossible.
The closer you draw to God, the more you recognize in others.

Do you agree with me that the closer you draw to God the MORE you "feel" like a sinner because you realize more when you sin, even though it might be less. You understand more how Holy God is and how incapable we are?

This is how we "feel"... I'm not saying God sees us this way.
He now sees us through the eyes of His Son.