Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[GodsGrace]

to answer that, i guess we would have to come to agreement on which "death" matters to God; the spiritual one, meant to be accomplished "daily," or the other one that everyone suffers; bc this will alter the understanding of "resurrection" too i guess right. "Eternal" too.
well, i guess the spirit goes back to God, but the soul--which we usually conflate with the ego, right--who knows? The best test i know for a teacher is whether they are saying or implying that they know, when Scripture assures us that no one knows. "We do not know yet..."

but to reply another way, imo when you seek to please God right now, wherever you are at, you likely stop worrying about getting the part of you that was supposed to be dying a little more every day into some party with Jesus after death anyway; our egos cannot come, iow, whenever or wherever. So imo i would be deciding whether or not soul includes ego

I fully agree with your idea that we should be serving God right now and not waiting to party later.

As for the spirit, yes, the spirit goes to be with God, but we all have a spirit...it's the soul that makes us who we are. Our body is in the ground, but our spirit and soul must surely go to be with God -- if indeed we go right away, which I believe we do.

Some, dichotomists, believe the soul and spirit are one entity -- so that would work out too. I'm a trichotomist. I separate Body, Soul, Spirit.
It makes more sense.

 

[bbyrd009]

You believe with your faith, or else none of this makes sense

um, not sure quite what you mean there, so i'll say that i believed in santa claus with my faith, too
not that i am trying to diss faith or anything ok
but we are highly suggestible, let's say

or, i believed that souls were going to be tossed into an actual Lake of Fire in a literal judgement/court scenario after...what, after what, after every human being living on the planet died, in some single, Mass Judgement Event? something like that. i believed that for years ok, lotsa years, and it was only slowly and with much difficulty that i came to see the Revelation of Christ in a different frame, "In Us."

so for now what i would say is maybe test any prognostications about some future scenario after we have all dies against other Scripture, for me "we do not yet know what we will become" is usually violated immediately, right, and the dead know nothing is ignored, Samuel advising King Saul via the Witch of Endor is ignored, Gehenna is (time-)warped, and Sheol is twisted, etc.

all to rush to Paul's "absent from the body is present with the Lord," right, i mean you could easily spend the rest of the day reading ordained pastors tell you how Paul said "absent from the body is present with the Lord" lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

And absolutely from the thoughts of the heart that confesses Belief in the Word of God.

i've done this several times, so pardon me if i sound left-field or if i skim over an important part, ok, but fwiw i cannot find "belief in the Word" anywhere? Faith has been pretty much written out of the Book, imo to easier conflate faith with beliefs, which are basically things that are impediments to further learning, not faith at all iow, but that is just my conspiracy theory there, dunno.

Anyway, i found a list of "31 Bible Verses about Believing," 31 Best Bible Verses About Believing - Encouraging Scriptures for Faith!, and i Lexed the first one just to give an example, 1 Thessalonians 2:13 Lexicon: For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe., wherein we can see that "faith" has been replaced with "belief," and i'm pretty sure about 29 of the other 30 are going to go the same way.

although i realize you meant to ref faith ok, so i can assume that. Now for this "confess" part...lol

is a profession a confession? i don't think so, even though we conflate these too, right, i mean Hitler also confessed to being a Christian, if confession = profession; so in the interests of "confession is made unto salvation" et al, i suggest that any confession contain something "against self," as "con" suggests, and any profession is then "for self," but really i just made that up to get some kind of distinction there, as there should imo be an obvious delineation between the two words?

 

[bbyrd009]

And absolutely what "is circumcised", ONCE a man is Forgiven and Saved, giving the man a NEW HEART.

see, now with all this "absolutely" stuff, i get the impression that you could whip out a salvation checklist here, see, to measure other ppl before they are judged, in a sense, and found wanting? i mean that's kind of what Christians are trained to do, right. We are all Tare-Pullers lol

and we have all observed many altar professions that satisfy all of the checklists, yet do not manifest a new heart, so even though that seems to work occasionally, it does not seem to be the standard, at least imo

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

um, not sure quite what you mean there, so i'll say that i believed in santa claus with my faith, too
not that i am trying to diss faith or anything ok
but we are highly suggestible, let's say

or, i believed that souls were going to be tossed into an actual Lake of Fire in a literal judgement/court scenario after...what, after what, after every human being living on the planet died, in some single, Mass Judgement Event? something like that. i believed that for years ok, lotsa years, and it was only slowly and with much difficulty that i came to see the Revelation of Christ in a different frame, "In Us."

so for now what i would say is maybe test any prognostications about some future scenario after we have all dies against other Scripture, for me "we do not yet know what we will become" is usually violated immediately, right, and the dead know nothing is ignored, Samuel advising King Saul via the Witch of Endor is ignored, Gehenna is (time-)warped, and Sheol is twisted, etc.

all to rush to Paul's "absent from the body is present with the Lord," right, i mean you could easily spend the rest of the day reading ordained pastors tell you how Paul said "absent from the body is present with the Lord" lol.

My opinion; It sounds as though your faith was never rooted in the Holy Spirit and that is why you easily change your mind about things.

 

[bbyrd009]

THE LAW.

"You gotta keep the law"?

First of all there are THOUSANDS of Laws.

So it would be handy for one to KNOW exactly where a LIST, a BOOK, a REFERENCE, to ALL of these LAWS ARE....

Certainly, one can not be HELD to obeying a LAW, that is not FIRST KNOWN where one can READ and KNOW what they "ARE" subject to KEEPING...

Even National Covernments, State Governments, County, Parish, City, Homeowners Associations, Universities, School governments, Have Laws, Bylaws, Rules, Regulations..,,that are all Written, Recorded, Preserved, Stored, for Public Viewing, that ANYONE can go and Read "any" Law, that they may or may not be subject to.

Where might one find such a LIST, of these Laws you speak of that one has "gotta keep"?

And do such laws, Apply to Every living person?

God Bless,
Taken

well, we should obviously obey the laws of the "establishment," yes, even if the establishment does not, same now as then imo; otherwise we get arrested, right. As for the spiritual ones, i think whatever you observe and do, you should do from conviction, and after all if you are observing any spiritual laws whatsoever, from conviction, i doubt that i would have much occasion to complain, as your neighbor, right.

So, i don't mean to be vague there, but it seems to me that Scripture dictates doing from conviction over observing any specific law, that after all might be superseded and broken in a certain moment/situation anyway, if a higher purpose can be seen to be served by that

The Ten Commandments have come down to us in the Bible; the rest of Jewish ceremonial law has not. Sabbath is a divisive point, until one stops being worried about what everyone else does with their lives and gets on with their own imo.
Do it from conviction--all three in agreement--seems to be the important part?

 

[Taken]

a good deed covers many sins

kind of does, but i'm not even really trying, k.
If the kingdom can be "...taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it,"
then it follows that salvation is not the one-time on/off switch complete with checklist and evidence of speaking in tongues that ol' tassle-toes makes it. We are not advised to count the cost for nothing

It seems you have a common confusion.

Perhaps an analogy will help you understand.

God has Salvation for you...
..."YOU" can receive.

God has a NEW heart for you...
..."YOU" can receive.

God has a NEW spirit for you...
...Your can receive.

God has a Kingdom on Earth....
..."YOU" can enter.

Your local auto dealer has a Car to give away.
..."YOU" can enter.

I have a gift card for you.
...."YOU" can receive.

Your spouse has a gift for you, all wrapped up hidden from view, but yet plainly see in her hand.
...."YOU" can receive.

Do you see the Pattern?
Places, things, FOR YOU to "enter", FOR YOU to "receive", FOR YOU to have.

If you DO NOT REACH OUT AND TAKE AND RECEIVE THAT WHICH WAS PROVIDED "TO YOU"...

Well....uh....YOU DON'T HAVE IT!
And "IF" you NEVER reach out and TAKE IT, RECEIVE IT....

Well....uh....YOU DON'T HAVE IT EVER.

YOU LOST what was FOR YOU, BECAUSE you refused to REACH OUT AND CLAIM IT and RECEIVE IT!

God has Provided the gift of Salvation for ALL.
It is Theirs to reach out and claim and receive......and IF THEY REFUSE to reach out and claim and receive ANY Gift from God...

They LOSE IT. They LOSE their SALVATION.

Which simply means they LOSE their OPPORTUNITY to HAVE what they refused to CLAIM, and RECEIVE.

It does not mean THEY RECEIVED IT, and then LOST it.

Scripture is clear, MEN repeatedly LOSE their Salvation, BECAUSE THEY NEVER Claimed it or RECEIVED IT.

Scripture is clear, ONCE a man CLAIMS and RECEIVES Salvation, it is a GIFT He has FOREVER.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

And do such laws, Apply to Every living person?

if we are trying to get to "who is under the law?" opposed to who must obey the law though, diff Qs must be asked

 

[bbyrd009]

God has Provided the gift of Salvation for ALL.

"count the cost"

 

[bbyrd009]

Scripture is clear, ONCE a man CLAIMS and RECEIVES Salvation, it is a GIFT He has FOREVER.

ok, just understand that Hitler is "in" with this theology, ok, not that i wish to make any judgements where he is concerned lol

 

[Taken]

see, now with all this "absolutely" stuff, i get the impression that you could whip out a salvation checklist here, see, to measure other ppl before they are judged, in a sense, and found wanting? i mean that's kind of what Christians are trained to do, right. We are all Tare-Pullers lol

and we have all observed many altar professions that satisfy all of the checklists, yet do not manifest a new heart, so even though that seems to work occasionally, it does not seem to be the standard, at least imo

Well, like I said.....Trust to believe Scripture.
I trust Scripture IS Absolute Truth.
So me saying Absolutely, is based on my choice to Absolutely Trust Scripture is True.

God seeks the truth of the mans heart?
Absolutely.
God gives men a new heart?
Absolutely.
God gives men a new spirit ?
Absolutely.

Rom 10:9
Rom 10:10
Rev 2;23
EZEKIEL 18:31
EZEKIEL 36:26

I have no problem with claiming to Trust Absolutes in Gods Word.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

ok, just understand that Hitler is "in" with this theology, ok, not that i wish to make any judgements where he is concerned lol

I never knew Hitler. I have read things About him, but have NO CLUE, if he chose to call on the Lord and receive forgiveness and all the Gifts of an internal Change the Lord provides for ANY man to take and receive.

The Lords gifts are His Alone to Give, to ANY man who chooses to believe and receive.
Nothing at all for me to judge or stick my nose in and decide What is acceptable for the Lord to do or not.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

ok

I don't see where you advised where all these Laws are listed, that we "gotta" obey...

??

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, like I said.....Trust to believe Scripture.
I trust Scripture IS Absolute Truth.
So me saying Absolutely, is based on my choice to Absolutely Trust Scripture is True.

an interesting exercise here is to try and state an Absolute Truth from Scripture; i don't think this can be done, and several have already tried here.

Not sure what the common verdict is on their attempts, maybe a poll would be in order lol

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't see where you advised where all these Laws are listed, that we "gotta" obey...

??

God Bless,
Taken

well, the civil ones grew out of the second 5 of the Decalogue i guess, and are down at the courthouse, so to speak, online or whatever. The first 5 imo do whatever you do from conviction, seems to be the command. And a person's convictions change, as they change, i guess, right, i mean i rarely read a ten year old post of mine without some cringing lol

 

[bbyrd009]

God seeks the truth of the mans heart?
Absolutely.
God gives men a new heart?
Absolutely.
God gives men a new spirit ?
Absolutely.

Rom 10:9
Rom 10:10
Rev 2;23
EZEKIEL 18:31
EZEKIEL 36:26

so then Hitler is absolutely saved? i doubt you would go that far, see

 

[Taken]

"count the cost"

1) Trust to believe in ones heart, in the Word of God.

2) Trust to believe in ones heart, in the Word of God.

3) Trust to believe in ones heart, in the Word of God.

Regardless of how many times I "count the cost".... the answer is the same.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

I have no problem with claiming to Trust Absolutes in Gods Word.

lol, well let's be fair, we have no problem claiming to our children that santa claus will bring them presents on Jesus' Birthday if their works merit that, too right

and you might keep an open mind @ "God's Word," about It not being the Bible i mean. Word cannot really be translated or interpreted, see, if you give me your word you have to be in person, right, otherwise i have to qualify it when i tell it to someone else, a la "Taken even gave me his word--but it was written in a post online, not in person." like that, see. Your kid could be posting in your name, or you could have gotten hacked, or i might even mis-communicate part of your word in the retelling, etc.

Bible is not Word, at least in every sense. I can find "Easter" in the "Bible," see, but that is not in the God~Breathed part lol

 

[bbyrd009]

1) Trust to believe in ones heart, in the Word of God.

2) Trust to believe in ones heart, in the Word of God.

3) Trust to believe in ones heart, in the Word of God.

Regardless of how many times I "count the cost".... the answer is the same.

God Bless,
Taken

yet Christ did not advise one to count the cost as an empty command, i'm sure you would agree.
so you might first disentangle the current conflation of belief with faith that is so popular now, or at least see that that pov has you in complete agreement with the little children that have been told about santa, and take their parents' word on the matter, see

i suggest that "belief" = "those things that one holds to be true, that keep them from changing their minds," or something similar. The point being that whether this is strictly "true" or not, if the pov is fruitful, it is useful. Beliefs are not faith, even if they share a synonym iow

 

[Taken]

well, the civil ones grew out of the second 5 of the Decalogue i guess, and are down at the courthouse, so to speak, online or whatever. The first 5 imo do whatever you do from conviction, seems to be the command. And a person's convictions change, as they change, i guess, right, i mean i rarely read a ten year old post of mine without some cringing lol

Well friend yes, there are tons of International Laws, National Laws and Civil Laws...that are written and preserved and open to public view, in several Libraries around the District, Country, States, Cities, etc....

Very few actually APPLY to me.
My interest was more in the list of Scriptural Laws, that you implied "gotta" be obeyed.

God Bless,
Taken