Once in Heaven, can you lose your salvation?

[bbyrd009]

Adam and Eve were children of God before the fall. Yet they fell.

but notice that you cannot Quote this "Fall," not anywhere in the Book; only in commentaries.
The Book insists that you have become like God instead, and plainly states that we are to be like gods.

conversely, all the gods i know have fallen

 

[bbyrd009]

Il still be in heaven

by this you mean "at some future date, after i have literally died," is that correct?

 

[forrestcupp]

Scripture teaches that those who have trusted Christ as Savior are "in Christ". This has a literal meaning, and when it's understood as literal truth, then you can begin to understand why salvation is eternal. It's because our spirit is made one with Him through the work of the Holy Spirit. We are already "sanctified" (set apart) by the body of Christ.

When we are placed "in Christ", our spirit in Him cannot be corrupted with sin. Sin is not possible in our spirit. If it has no sin, it cannot die. Jesus cannot be corrupted with sin, if we are "in Him", we can't either! This is salvation, and it is eternal from the moment we believe the truth, which is, Christ died, was buried, and rose again for us that through faith in Him and not of ourselves, we are given the gift of life.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Colossians 1:12-14
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Brother, I agree with everything you're saying here. I completely believe that Christ died once for all. And I believe that if a person is "in Christ" that they are eternally secure, and no outside force could ever take that away. The only thing we disagree on, and it's a huge thing, is that you don't believe that a person who is "in Christ" could possibly have the option or freewill to choose to remove themselves from being in Christ.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is salvation, and it is eternal from the moment we believe the truth

believing the truth will not save anyone in that manner imo; satan believes too

 

[Godssrvr]

Brother, I agree with everything you're saying here. I completely believe that Christ died once for all. And I believe that if a person is "in Christ" that they are eternally secure, and no outside force could ever take that away. The only thing we disagree on, and it's a huge thing, is that you don't believe that a person who is "in Christ" could possibly have the option or freewill to choose to remove themselves from being in Christ.

What scripture do you use to support this thinking?

 

[forrestcupp]

What scripture do you use to support this thinking?

Pretty much all the scriptures Triumph posted, plus many more, that show that a Christian can fall away. What scripture do you use to support that someone can't choose to remove themselves from being "in Christ"? All I've seen you post is only talking about people who are "in Christ."

 

[Stranger]

Brother, I agree with everything you're saying here. I completely believe that Christ died once for all. And I believe that if a person is "in Christ" that they are eternally secure, and no outside force could ever take that away. The only thing we disagree on, and it's a huge thing, is that you don't believe that a person who is "in Christ" could possibly have the option or freewill to choose to remove themselves from being in Christ.

Then you are not secure in Heaven for you will have your will. And if you are in Christ here and can will yourself out, then when you are in Christ there you can will yourself out.

Stranger

 

[Godssrvr]

Pretty much all the scriptures Triumph posted

I was interested in seeing the scripture you think best supports your claim.

All I've seen you post is only talking about people who are "in Christ."

Most all scripture is written to believers so that would be natural wouldn't it?

 

[BreadOfLife]

God did. (Ez. 28:15). Or are you saying God created Satan with sin. God created imperfectly?

God did. (Gen. 1:26-27) Or are you saying being created in the image of God by God, has it's imperfections?
Just because they had a will, doesn't mean they were not perfect. They were perfect in every way and sinless.

So, again, how can you be sure you cannot lose your salvation in Heaven? Just as they fell.

Stranger

Wrong.

First of all - Ezel. 28:15 isn't talking about Satan being perfect. In fact - it isn't talking about perfection at ALL. It is talking about the condition that we are ALL born in. The word used here (tamiym) does NOT mean "Perfect". It means "blameless" and "wholesome".
Everybody is born blameless or sinless - except for the stain of Original Sin and the concupiscense that results fro it.

As for Gen. 1:26-27, we are ALL created in God's image - but that doesn't make us "perfect."
Not having sinned id NOT perfection. Having your will perfectly conformed to God's will is perfection.

 

[mjrhealth]

does anyone not want to go, mjr?
Don't you want to be like everyone else, then, is essentially what you are asking here imo

you should read the prior post berfore you ask such foolish questions..

 

[bbyrd009]

you should read the prior post berfore you ask such foolish questions..

i agree with @Dcopymope

 

[Dcopymope]

Interesting.
@Decopymope
Isn't Heaven anywhere God Himself is?
God IS, right now....We are told in the scriptures that He dwells in heaven...it is a realm.

The earth will be "a new earth"...don't you feel that it will be a heavenly realm too?
....or do you believe that it will be physical like this earth?

If so, why on earth would we need glorified bodies? Or 'changed in a twinkling of an eye' ?

No, heaven is heaven, earth is earth, and God is God, and scripture plainly states God will dwell in the latter with his creation on the earth to come. I can understand why mjrhealth would have a problem with the revelation that Jesus Christ gave John since he really could care less about what the Bible says. The word of God is beneath him. But like I said, if you have a problem with what God says will be your final destination, then get "caught up in the spirit" and take it up with him, its his plan, not mine. We technically don't need glorified bodies, it is simply the reward given to us on the account of our faith in Jesus, but having the body is never stated as a requirement to be considered saved. Our names would be in the book of life one way or the other. Its not a mytery as to the nature of the "glorified" bodies. The bodies are similar to that of angels in that it makes us immortal, and Jesus was quite clear on this. But we don't actually need them, which is why there is still a tree of life in new Jerusalem for those not of the first Resurrection. However, like I said before, the tree of life isn't for the saints, its for the "healing of the nations". We don't need a tree to give us life, because we are healed, saved by the blood of Jesus, who is THE life and is the life giving source of the tree itself.

(Revelation 22:1-3) "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. {2} In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. {3} And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:"

(John 11:25-26) "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: {26} And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

During his entire ministry, Jesus never says anything about us needing a tree to be "healed", or "saved", because if you are saved by the blood of Jesus, it doesn't apply to you. Being made "perfect in thy ways" with an immortal body is not at all what will make us sinless anymore than it did for Satan. The only being that ever has existed that is impervious to sin is God, and there is none like him, neither shall there be in the future to come. Jesus Christ is what makes us sinless in the eyes of the Father because he put sin away forever on the cross, and for no other reason.

 

[Dcopymope]

i agree with @Dcopymope

Nevermind this guy mjrhealth, he fits exactly the description of the type of 'believers' I have written about. He believes he knows better about his future than what is written in Gods word, of which he has demonstrated his contempt for time and again.

 

[bbyrd009]

Nevermind this guy mjrhealth, he fits exactly the description of the type of 'believers' I have written about. He believes he knows better about his future than what is written in Gods word, of which he has demonstrated his contempt for time and again.

ah well i am as divided as anyone else, i guess

 

[Stranger]

Wrong.

First of all - Ezel. 28:15 isn't talking about Satan being perfect. In fact - it isn't talking about perfection at ALL. It is talking about the condition that we are ALL born in. The word used here (tamiym) does NOT mean "Perfect". It means "blameless" and "wholesome".
Everybody is born blameless or sinless - except for the stain of Original Sin and the concupiscense that results fro it.

As for Gen. 1:26-27, we are ALL created in God's image - but that doesn't make us "perfect."
Not having sinned id NOT perfection. Having your will perfectly conformed to God's will is perfection.

Isn't this strange. If I give you verses which prove something, yet the exact same word is not used, you cry foul and say it doesn't say that. Then when I give you a verse that uses the exact word you still cry foul, saying that is not what it is talking about.

(Eze. 28:15) "Thou wast perfect in thy ways" Well, Satan didn't have any original sin. Did God create him imperfectly.

Adam and Eve's will was conformed to God's will....till they willed differently.

So, you need to rethink your position.

Stranger

 

[Triumph1300]

that's just you talking out of your anus,

Now, now.
You talk like that in church when you disagree with somebody?

 

[mjrhealth]

The word of God is beneath him

Jesus is certainly not beneath me, as for Gods word. It is Spirit and it is Life.... not dead pages in a book, and the bible says, Jesus is Gods word and guess what He is Spirit and HE is life., and God is under no obligation to agree with teh bible if its not from Him, only when it is and when it agrees with Him. And so you see men arguing of which Gods word is actually Gods word and which is teh correct one. The foolish wisdom and pride of man.

 

[mjrhealth]

Nevermind this guy mjrhealth, he fits exactly the description of the type of 'believers' I have written about. He believes he knows better about his future than what is written in Gods word, of which he has demonstrated his contempt for time and again.

Isnt that what faith is all about.... God knew me before I was born, He also knows my end, why should I not trust Him??Would you rather I trusted in men and myself????

 

[bbyrd009]

Pretty much all the scriptures Triumph posted, plus many more, that show that a Christian can fall away. What scripture do you use to support that someone can't choose to remove themselves from being "in Christ"? All I've seen you post is only talking about people who are "in Christ."

you might note how the "satan must be released for a short season" can even be contemplated in the light of someone who has overcome a sin going back to it after a lengthy hiatus, for a short time, before realizing why it still won't work, and then dropping it forever, at least as a habit

 

[bbyrd009]

Most all scripture is written to believers

sure wish believers would apply this, yes. I am Cain, i am Esau, etc.

imo over half of the Book is rendered Immediately Irrelevant in our current "slavation" model