Jesus never said he was God Almighty

[101G]

(Is. 63:1-6) speak to the Messiah when He comes in vengeance to destroy the unbelieving. Thus the 'right arm' is the arm of the Messiah, Jesus Christ when He returns.

Within the Godhead, the Son is a distinct Person as is the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Son, that distinct Person of the Godhead, became a man Who we know as Jesus Christ.

You keep wanting to use this term 'separate'. I am not saying 'separate'. I am saying, One God, three distinct Persons. (Is. 63:5) simply indicates that there is none to help in this aspect of salvation. Thus by His own arm, the Messiah, Jesus Christ, He wrought the vengeance and salvation needed.

Stranger

ERROR, Jesus is the ARM, listen, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

see JESUS is the ARM, scripture clarify.

PCY

 

[Stranger]

ERROR, Jesus is the ARM, listen, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

see JESUS is the ARM, scripture clarify.

PCY

In (Is. 53:1) the arm of the LORD is the Messiah. The Messiah in (63:5) speaks of His own right arm. uyrgh

Stranger

 

[101G]

let me make it perfectly clear. another word for distinct is separate.

#2. the RIGHT ARM of GOD IS JESUS CHRIST.

#3. you said, "The Messiah in (63:5) speaks of His own right arm".
let's see, there is another verse, Isaiah 59:16 "And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

now is this the Messiah ARM here, yes or no.

I'll be looking for that answer.

PCY.

 

[Stranger]

let me make it perfectly clear. another word for distinct is separate.

#2. the RIGHT ARM of GOD IS JESUS CHRIST.

#3. you said, "The Messiah in (63:5) speaks of His own right arm".
let's see, there is another verse, Isaiah 59:16 "And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

now is this the Messiah ARM here, yes or no.

I'll be looking for that answer.

PCY.

If 'distinct' and 'separate' meant the same thing, you would not be trying so hard to say they do.

The right arm of God is the Messiah, Jesus Christ. But, the Messiah has a right arm also. So?

(Is. 59:16) speaks to the arm of God, the Messiah.

Stranger

 

[101G]

Ok I'll follow your lead for now, so who is the Messiah "RIGHT ARM"?.

PCY.

 

[Stranger]

Ok I'll follow your lead for now, so who is the Messiah "RIGHT ARM"?.

PCY.

It is His own right arm. (Is. 63:5)

Stranger

 

[101G]

Stranger, if the Lord Jesus is his own Right ARM, tell me who came and save us? listen,
Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you”.

See that at the end, “he will come and save you” Who is the “HE” that will save us? I suggest you read first, Isaiah 60:16 and especially Isaiah 43:11 ".

 

[VictoryinJesus]

(Is. 63:1-6) speak to the Messiah when He comes in vengeance to destroy the unbelieving. Thus the 'right arm' is the arm of the Messiah, Jesus Christ when He returns.

Stranger, I ask you to consider why the Son? Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"


1 Chronicles 22:7-12
[7] And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the Lord my God: [8] But the word of the Lord came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight. [9] Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. [10] He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. [11] Now, my son, the Lord be with thee; and prosper thou, and build the house of the Lord thy God, as he hath said of thee. [12] Only the Lord give thee wisdom and understanding, and give thee charge concerning Israel, that thou mayest keep the law of the Lord thy God.

 

[Stranger]

Stranger, if the Lord Jesus is his own Right ARM, tell me who came and save us? listen,
Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you”.

See that at the end, “he will come and save you” Who is the “HE” that will save us? I suggest you read first, Isaiah 60:16 and especially Isaiah 43:11 ".

I don't see the problem or the difficulty here. God brings salvation. The Son who became Jesus Christ is God also. God, Who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, saves us. Each doing their part in that salvation.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Stranger, I ask you to consider why the Son? Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"


1 Chronicles 22:7-12
[7] And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the Lord my God: [8] But the word of the Lord came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight. [9] Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days. [10] He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel for ever. [11] Now, my son, the Lord be with thee; and prosper thou, and build the house of the Lord thy God, as he hath said of thee. [12] Only the Lord give thee wisdom and understanding, and give thee charge concerning Israel, that thou mayest keep the law of the Lord thy God.

Because all judgement is given to the Son. (John 5:22)

Just because Jesus sat down at the right hand of God doesn't mean He cannot stand up anymore. (Acts 7:56)

Stranger

 

[101G]

I don't see the problem or the difficulty here. God brings salvation. The Son who became Jesus Christ is God also. God, Who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, saves us. Each doing their part in that salvation.

Stranger

YES, God brings salvation by his "OWN" ARM.

understand something, the ARM of God is speaking metaphorically of his power. so who is the POWER of God? Jesus CHRIST, listen. 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God".

and that power to save was manifested in "FLESH and BLOOD" on the EARTH in the present of JESUS CHRIST, the ARM of GOD.

see, as you said, "The Son who became Jesus Christ is God also". yes, but not as some distinct 2nd person. no, he is God "shared" in flesh. that the difficulty people don't understand.

he became "ANOTHER" of himself in flesh. supportive scripture, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us".

the question, "how ia God with us?", by being in the same thing that we're in.... a body, that's how God is with us.

see the difference between us is that God is the "EQUAL SHARE" of himself in flesh, where you make a distinction of two persons, where I make no distinction of person. only a numerical difference meaning the SHARE.

see by being the equal share as Philippians 2:6 points out, there is no distinction. he is the same person only shared.

hope you see it now.

Share vs distinction

PCY

 

[101G]

Stranger, I ask you to consider why the Son? Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

@VJ, you nailed it.

Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high".

see Jesus Christ is the, as the Greek say, the
G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (cha-rak-teer') n.
1. an engraver (the tool or the person).
2. (by implication) an engraving.
3. (hence) a “character,” the figure stamped.
4. (by extension) an exact copy.
5. (figuratively) a representation.
[from charasso “to sharpen to a point” (akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching)]
KJV: express image

notice definition #3. a "character". and character used metaphorically means "SON"

see Jesus the Christ the manifested character of God in flesh. him, God Almighty. his ARM, his power, made bare. God shared in the flesh.

PCY

 

[Stranger]

YES, God brings salvation by his "OWN" ARM.

understand something, the ARM of God is speaking metaphorically of his power. so who is the POWER of God? Jesus CHRIST, listen. 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God".

and that power to save was manifested in "FLESH and BLOOD" on the EARTH in the present of JESUS CHRIST, the ARM of GOD.

see, as you said, "The Son who became Jesus Christ is God also". yes, but not as some distinct 2nd person. no, he is God "shared" in flesh. that the difficulty people don't understand.

he became "ANOTHER" of himself in flesh. supportive scripture, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us".

the question, "how ia God with us?", by being in the same thing that we're in.... a body, that's how God is with us.

see the difference between us is that God is the "EQUAL SHARE" of himself in flesh, where you make a distinction of two persons, where I make no distinction of person. only a numerical difference meaning the SHARE.

see by being the equal share as Philippians 2:6 points out, there is no distinction. he is the same person only shared.

hope you see it now.

Share vs distinction

PCY

Since God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Son is a distinct Person of the Godhead. He, the Son, became a Man, Jesus Christ. So, God became a Man, in the Son. Thus, 'God with us'.

Concerning the Godhead, I make the distinction of three persons, not two.

Nothing in (Phil. 2:6) indicates no distinction. Jesus Christ, who is the Son, knew He was God the Son.

Stranger

 

[101G]

Because all judgement is given to the Son. (John 5:22)

Just because Jesus sat down at the right hand of God doesn't mean He cannot stand up anymore. (Acts 7:56)

Stranger

thanks for the response. but,
to sit down don't actually means to physically sit down. listen as high priest he sits because he finishes from his work. yes our Lord stands, because he's our mediator.

but we're speaking of his work on earth in salvation. see the Lord Jesus is the power or the ARMY of God on EARTH in flesh. let me give you an example of what I'm talking about.

in the book of 2 Chronicles chapter 32, the king of Assyria invaded Judah. king Hezekiah spoke to the people, and this is what he said.

2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him:

2 Chronicles 32:8 "With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah".

he said that with Sennacherib was an "ARM" of FLESH, meaning his POWER, his ARMY, his Fighting men.

understand, the Lord Jesus is God's "ARM" of flesh, his POWER, his fighting man, his army of ONE. listen, Isaiah 42:13 "The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies".

there's that man of war, the LORD himself. the Mighty man, God's own ARM.

Hoped that helped.

 

[101G]

Since God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Son is a distinct Person of the Godhead. He, the Son, became a Man, Jesus Christ. So, God became a Man, in the Son. Thus, 'God with us'.

Concerning the Godhead, I make the distinction of three persons, not two.

Nothing in (Phil. 2:6) indicates no distinction. Jesus Christ, who is the Son, knew He was God the Son.

Stranger

He the son was made in the LIKENESS os a man. remember he "TOOK PART" in our humanity, and was not a "PARTAKER" of it. big difference. see he took on flesh, an addition. just read the text, Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil".

see he was not a PARTAKER.


Now, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "TITLES" and not PERSONS. there is only ONE PERSON, not 3.

see the distinction is ANOTHER and yes Phil. 2:6 points that out. just look up the ROOT of G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.

notice it's a NOUN which is the PERSON, and not an adjective which describes the person. see the difference now.

that root word of G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n. opens the door to understanding the Godhead.

Hope that helped.

PCY

 

[APAK]

Who then is the subject of Micah 5:2; John 17:5,24;Phil.2:6;Col. 1:15-17; 1 Peter 1:20; Hebrews 10:5-7 and the entire first chapter of Hebrews? Sorry, but the Biblical evidence of the pre-existence of Christ is overwhelming. Obviously, He did not have a physical flesh and blood body has He had when on the earth...His Father was Spirit therefore so was the Son, but of His pre-existence there can really be no doubt. Your contention is dangerous also in the effect that has on our redemption. You are suggesting that the offering made was but a human sacrifice. If it were a human law against which transgression had been made and required atonement, then fine. But the laws that were broken were divine laws...only a divine sacrifice could be the propitiation for the transgression of divine law.
Now of course we get into trouble with the trinitarians, because I would add that Jesus did really truly die on Calvary...He died the second death...resulting in complete separation from God. Trinitarians cannot abide this. They say that the trinity is indivisible. That God cannot die. Therefore a part of Jesus did not die. Then the propitiation becomes a sham...just a show that looks good, but really cost God nothing. Not so. The Father risked the loss of His own Son if Jesus had transgressed or sinned in just the minutest manner. Praise God He didn't, and gave the Father the right to resurrect Him. But if Jesus had sinned, (and it was possible for Him to do so,) then we all would have been utterly lost. And Jesus also.
God truly gave His Son to humanity. Not just to die, but to continue to be human for all eternity.

@brakelite ...

This is my third post of your original post above....one more to go and still no sign of a pre-existence and incarnate Jesus.

It is quite obvious that 1 Peter 1:20 has nothing to do with Jesus being pre-existent.

(1Pe 1:20) He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you (ESV)

God designed a plan of salvation before the earth was created. Jesus was its centerpiece and completion. Jesus was born a human being of God, a son of God, born at a pre-define time on earth. He never existed before this time of his earthly birth. And we know the rest of the story.

Hebrew 10:5-7 also as in Psalms 40:6-8

(Heb 10:5) Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me;
(Heb 10:6) in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure.
(Heb 10:7) Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’” (ALL ESV)

(Psa 40:4) Blessed is the man who makes the LORD his trust, who does not turn to the proud, to those who go astray after a lie!
(Psa 40:5) You have multiplied, O LORD my God, your wondrous deeds and your thoughts toward us; none can compare with you! I will proclaim and tell of them, yet they are more than can be told.
(Psa 40:6) In sacrifice and offering you have not delighted, but you have given me an open ear. Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required.
(Psa 40:7) Then I said, “Behold, I have come; in the scroll of the book it is written of me:
(Psa 40:8) I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart.”
(Psa 40:10) I have not hidden your deliverance within my heart; I have spoken of your faithfulness and your salvation; I have not concealed your steadfast love and your faithfulness from the great congregation. (ALL ESV)

In a nutshell, Hebrew 10:5-7 says that Jesus knew he was born to do his Father’s will and purpose, to be the perfect human sacrifice for the atonement of mankind’s sin. The lamb of God, indeed. The practice of slaughtering animals was ‘dead and buried’ from now on.

The expression “a body you have prepared” means, first, to be born human – 100 percent, and secondly being mentally and spiritually prepared through the presence and power of God, and thirdly, in doing the will of God to the cross.

There are many that hang on to a concept of a pre-existence of Jesus solely based on the expressions in verse 5 where it says, ‘Christ came into the world’ and in verse 7 where it says, ‘I have come?’

If so, let me seriously address these types of expressions used in both the OT and NT. In so doing I hope to deter anyone else from concluding that Jesus pre-existed and thus incarnated in many other verses based on these types of expression.

If it came or was from God, or the source was from God, it was expressed like ‘it came down from heaven.’ Example from scripture: The manna God gave was not baked in heaven, it was made by God on earth, it was born or created on earth.

If a being came from God, or heaven, or was born of God, or was in the service of God, it was expressed as in selected scripture as:

- he/I was sent from heaven, or God, or

- he/I came down from heaven, or

- he/I came from heaven, or from above, or

- he/I was sent by God, or

- he/I came or entered the world, or

- he/I have come, etc.

In John 1:6, John the Baptist was a man “sent from God.” John was not pre-existent or was incarnated.

(Joh 3:31) He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all.

In the same way, Jesus never was ever in heaven at that time nor did he pre-exist and came down literally from heaven to be incarnated.

None of these expressions ever mean or were meant to say that a person or being, came down from heaven, literally. Those that do not agree with my explanation above historically have no counter-explanation.

It is just a desperate effort to find a pre-extent and an incarnate Jesus when there is none in scripture.

Bless you bro,

APAK

 

[101G]

@brakelite ...

This is my third post of your original post above....one more to go and still no sign of a pre-existence and incarnate Jesus.

It is quite obvious that 1 Peter 1:20 has nothing to do with Jesus being pre-existent.

(1Pe 1:20) He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you (ESV)

God designed a plan of salvation before the earth was created. Jesus was its centerpiece and completion. Jesus was born a human being of God, a son of God, born at a pre-define time on earth. He never existed before this time of his earthly birth. And we know the rest of the story.

Hebrew 10:5-7 also as in Psalms 40:6-8

(Heb 10:5) Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me;
(Heb 10:6) in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure.
(Heb 10:7) Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’” (ALL ESV)

(Psa 40:4) Blessed is the man who makes the LORD his trust, who does not turn to the proud, to those who go astray after a lie!
(Psa 40:5) You have multiplied, O LORD my God, your wondrous deeds and your thoughts toward us; none can compare with you! I will proclaim and tell of them, yet they are more than can be told.
(Psa 40:6) In sacrifice and offering you have not delighted, but you have given me an open ear. Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required.
(Psa 40:7) Then I said, “Behold, I have come; in the scroll of the book it is written of me:
(Psa 40:8) I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart.”
(Psa 40:10) I have not hidden your deliverance within my heart; I have spoken of your faithfulness and your salvation; I have not concealed your steadfast love and your faithfulness from the great congregation. (ALL ESV)

In a nutshell, Hebrew 10:5-7 says that Jesus knew he was born to do his Father’s will and purpose, to be the perfect human sacrifice for the atonement of mankind’s sin. The lamb of God, indeed. The practice of slaughtering animals was ‘dead and buried’ from now on.

The expression “a body you have prepared” means, first, to be born human – 100 percent, and secondly being mentally and spiritually prepared through the presence and power of God, and thirdly, in doing the will of God to the cross.

There are many that hang on to a concept of a pre-existence of Jesus solely based on the expressions in verse 5 where it says, ‘Christ came into the world’ and in verse 7 where it says, ‘I have come?’

If so, let me seriously address these types of expressions used in both the OT and NT. In so doing I hope to deter anyone else from concluding that Jesus pre-existed and thus incarnated in many other verses based on these types of expression.

If it came or was from God, or the source was from God, it was expressed like ‘it came down from heaven.’ Example from scripture: The manna God gave was not baked in heaven, it was made by God on earth, it was born or created on earth.

If a being came from God, or heaven, or was born of God, or was in the service of God, it was expressed as in selected scripture as:

- he/I was sent from heaven, or God, or

- he/I came down from heaven, or

- he/I came from heaven, or from above, or

- he/I was sent by God, or

- he/I came or entered the world, or

- he/I have come, etc.

In John 1:6, John the Baptist was a man “sent from God.” John was not pre-existent or was incarnated.

(Joh 3:31) He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all.

In the same way, Jesus never was ever in heaven at that time nor did he pre-exist and came down literally from heaven to be incarnated.

None of these expressions ever mean or were meant to say that a person or being, came down from heaven, literally. Those that do not agree with my explanation above historically have no counter-explanation.

It is just a desperate effort to find a pre-extent and an incarnate Jesus when there is none in scripture.

Bless you bro,

APAK

1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets of OLD.

can we prove this by scripture? yes, the Word is Jesus. all thos prophets say something like this, "The Word of the Lord came unto me". example,

Jeremiah 1:2 "To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign.

Isaiah 38:4 "Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying,

Ezekiel 1:3 "The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.

the word of God or the LORD is the Holy Spirit. so 1Peter 1:21 is correct.

the Bible is gretting smaller and smaller.

PCY.

 

[APAK]

1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets of OLD.

can we prove this by scripture? yes, the Word is Jesus. all thos prophets say something like this, "The Word of the Lord came unto me". example,

Jeremiah 1:2 "To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign.

Isaiah 38:4 "Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying,

Ezekiel 1:3 "The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.

the word of God or the LORD is the Holy Spirit. so 1Peter 1:21 is correct.

the Bible is gretting smaller and smaller.

PCY.

101G...a quick comment..

(1Pe 1:10) Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully,
(1Pe 1:11) inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories.
(1Pe 1:12) It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look. (ALL ESV)

In Verses 10 and 11 – the expression the ‘spirit of Christ’ is not in the OT scriptures. We cannot assume Christ was present in the OT. Now the ‘spirit of the God’ is plastered in the OT. The ‘spirit of Christ’ is used because it is associated with Jesus Christ and they predicted Christ’s suffering and glory, and not because Jesus was present on the OT.

The expression ‘spirit of’ means the gifts or the selected spirits that is given to people for various purposes of God by his spirit. God gives them to any person for his purpose.

We have heard of the “spirit of adoption” associated with eternal life.

We have heard of the “spirit of wisdom” associated with spiritual wisdom.

So, when we hear of the ‘spirit of Christ’ it is associated with Christ, his works his mind, his appearance etc. Selected prophets had this ‘spirit of Christ’ to know his future.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[APAK]

Who then is the subject of Micah 5:2; John 17:5,24;Phil.2:6;Col. 1:15-17; 1 Peter 1:20; Hebrews 10:5-7 and the entire first chapter of Hebrews? Sorry, but the Biblical evidence of the pre-existence of Christ is overwhelming. Obviously, He did not have a physical flesh and blood body has He had when on the earth...His Father was Spirit therefore so was the Son, but of His pre-existence there can really be no doubt. Your contention is dangerous also in the effect that has on our redemption. You are suggesting that the offering made was but a human sacrifice. If it were a human law against which transgression had been made and required atonement, then fine. But the laws that were broken were divine laws...only a divine sacrifice could be the propitiation for the transgression of divine law.
Now of course we get into trouble with the trinitarians, because I would add that Jesus did really truly die on Calvary...He died the second death...resulting in complete separation from God. Trinitarians cannot abide this. They say that the trinity is indivisible. That God cannot die. Therefore a part of Jesus did not die. Then the propitiation becomes a sham...just a show that looks good, but really cost God nothing. Not so. The Father risked the loss of His own Son if Jesus had transgressed or sinned in just the minutest manner. Praise God He didn't, and gave the Father the right to resurrect Him. But if Jesus had sinned, (and it was possible for Him to do so,) then we all would have been utterly lost. And Jesus also.
God truly gave His Son to humanity. Not just to die, but to continue to be human for all eternity.

@brakelite ...last post on your original post..

I covered I believe the contentious areas in Hebrews Chapter One...

Ok….The first chapter of Hebrews….

(Heb 1:1) Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets,

Self-explanatory statement.

(Heb 1:2) but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

Jesus is the HEIR of ‘all things.’ The owner, God, can never be the heir. The son is not the Father. God made ALL THINGS not the heir, Jesus. Jesus did not create the world or correctly translated as the eons or ages. The verse says that God does not speak through the prophets since Jesus was born, and later at a point of understanding. Jesus is the heir of God’s works as God is the creator of time and the ages or generations. The translation to ‘world’ is incorrect. Regardless it does not change the meaning of the verse.

(Heb 1:3) He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(Heb 1:4) having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
(Heb 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?
(Heb 1:6) And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”
(Heb 1:7) Of the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire.”
(Heb 1:8) But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

Hebrew/ Aramaic languages does not make any distinction between GOD or god. Also, Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek earliest text was all caps with no punctuation or spaces.

The word “God’ was used liberally by early believers. It was a title for authorities, esteemed people, rulers, or who acts in the service of God’s authority.

The expression ‘for ever and ever means for the ages or ages to come. It is for a limited time. Jesus was a ’god’ the son of God for a long time although still limited.

(Joh 10:33) The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
(Joh 10:34) Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?
(Joh 10:35) If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
(Joh 10:36) do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? (ALL ESV)

The word GOD in verse 33 should have been translated ‘god.’

Jesus replied in verses 34 and 35, he reminded them and asked them if they had heard in the OT that some people were called ‘gods,’ who were guided by the word of God. In the earliest text they were called or written as the word, GODS.

Verse 36 clears up that the Pharisees was calling Jesus a ‘god’ because Jesus then spoke of the Father. It would not make any sense if the Pharisees were actually calling him God and not a ‘god’ as he continued the conversation about the Father.

Jesus knew they were not disgusted with Jesus because he was calling himself God Almighty. They were saying he was a god and the son of God, greater that Abraham and the prophets. This was blasphemous to them.

(Heb 1:9) You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
(Heb 1:10) And, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands;

This is all about God Almighty

(Heb 1:11) they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment,
(Heb 1:12) like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.”
(Heb 1:13) And to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?
(Heb 1:14) Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation? (ALL ESV)

The sacrifice for atonement has to be a first believers son of God sacrifice, one of 100% human stock, unblemished as the last Adam. Where did you get the notion that it somehow had to be a DIVINE sacrifice. Scripture does not support this theory.

Again no pre-existence or incarnation found. There is NO overwhelming of even underwhelming evidence of it in scripture.

If you have any more scripture for me to examine let me see it...

Bless you brother,

In Christ, always

APAK

 

[101G]

101G...a quick comment..

In Verses 10 and 11 – the expression the ‘spirit of Christ’ is not in the OT scriptures. We cannot assume Christ was present in the OT. Now the ‘spirit of the God’ is plastered in the OT. The ‘spirit of Christ’ is used because it is associated with Jesus Christ and they predicted Christ’s suffering and glory, and not because Jesus was present on the OT.

APAK

thanks for the response, but get a KJV. the Spirit of Christ is the HOLY SPIRIT.

I see your ERROR, listen up the Holy Spirit was in the OT. well, guess who the Lord Jesus is.... that's right the Holy Spirit glorified in flesh, who is Christ. yes, the Comforter.

supportive scripture, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"

and what do that word advocate in the Greek mean?

G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
KJV: advocate, comforter

see the advocate Jesus the Christ is the COMFORTER, the Holy Spirit.

and he is the intercessor scripture, Isaiah 59:16 "And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him".

see the intercessor the Holy Spirit is in the OT. just your eyes are carnal, looking for the actual words, "Spirit of Christ". but it takes Spiritual eyes to see the Spirit of Christ as the "ARM" of God the intercessor, the advocate, the COMFORTER

get yourself a KJ.

How plain can the word of God get before people will understand?

PCY.