You are the one who believes, by your own comment, that men who came up with OSAS, did so with misuse of scritpure.
The question was which scriptures were they using?
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You are the one who believes, by your own comment, that men who came up with OSAS, did so with misuse of scritpure.
The question was which scriptures were they using?
1. You don't obey Jesus everytime you reply to BreadofLife. I'm referring to your attitude toward him.
2. I don't care for the way you take snippets of what I've said and reply to them in ways that are not in syntax. I give you complete thoughts, you should reply in complete thoughts.
Plus, I never see you using scripture. I'm really not insterested in your personal opinions, which happen to be very odd, BTW, and not in keeping with mainline Christianity.
Your understanding of scripture leaves much to be desired.
It has already been established men who hear, read, learn, are putting forth an effort.
That is the mans part. His effort.
It has already been established men are given gifts and blessings for their effort to seek God.
When a man is putting forth an effort to hear, read, learn about God....
That hearing, reading, learning is the man being enlightened.
What the man is being enlightened WITH, IS the Word of God.
What the man is being enlightened BY, IS the the Holy Spirit.
The gift the man is being given IS measures OF FAITH.
IF the man continues hearing, reading, learning, his FAITH is INCREASED.
IF the man stops hearing, reading, learning, he FALLS FROM FAITH.
The man FALLS FROM receiving Increased FAITH.
If man continues....His Faith is increased.
The mans HOPE is to become increased with enough FAITH,
that He will then desire TO GIVE HIS LIFE TO THE Lord.
And the mans HOPE, is the Lord will SAVE his SOUL and QUICKEN his spirit,
BECAUSE of the HOPE given, of what Christ Jesus DID, and MADE possible for a man to RECEIVE, "through" Christ Jesus' efforts.
Once a man HAS asked for and received the Lord's gifts of CONVERSION...why would a man Still HOPE for what he already received?
If you are still HOPING to receive Salvation, then you still HOPE for something you have
Not received.
Other men HAVE already ask for and been Converted, and no long HOPE for what they HAVE received.
You basically say to those other men, what they have received is NOT possible, is a lie, and they lie.
If you have not received Salvation, that's you.
What you have or have not done, has no affect on what other men have done.
Some men have chosen differently than you.
Some men WANTED and ASKED the Lord, to
Convert them. It is not Forced for the man to ask. It is not Forced what the Lord did to convert the man.
It was a mutual agreement between THAT man and Thee Lord.
And the HOPE the man had was accomplished.
Rollo Tamasi
Well-Known Member
Rollo Tamasi
Well-Known Member
So, according to you,
How much faith is enough faith?
At what point does one become saved?
Jesus said we need faith the size of a mustard seed.
Is this enough according to you?
Rollo Tamasi
Well-Known Member
I can speak for everyone because I understand Scripture
YOU are going to heaven whether you like it or not
My aim is heaven.
But if we cannot lose salvation, why did the writers use the words:
IF
CONTINUE
DENY
FALL AWAY.
etc. ????
Rollo Tamasi
Well-Known Member
We've gone through that .
You refuse to listen or try to understand.
There's always someone leaving Sunday School who's thinking about a donut and not what was just taught.
None are good.
All miss the mark.
All are corrupt.
All are FROM a CORRUPTABLE "SEED"!!
All are in sin.
There are umpteen teachings of what a NATRUAL BORN MAN "IS".
"IF" and "WHEN" a man BECOMES "CONVERTED"....THE "EFFECT" of the Lord Conversion within A MAN...."IS"...
WHAT A MAN "WAS", NO LONGER APPLIES!!!!
That OLD MAN...that no good, missing the mark, corrupt, natural seed, sinful man ....
IS DEAD...DEAD...DEAD...
THOSE imperfect corrupt things DIED, with the OLD MAN!!!!
Once the OLD MAN IS DEAD....
WHY, WHY, WHY.....keep trying to APPLY to the NEW MAN...what applied to the OLD MAN??????
A believer?
There is a HUGE difference between a BELIEVER and a BORN AGAIN BELIEVER.
Every man must go though the hearing, learning about ANYTHING, before they can BELIEVE.
It is a man WHO CHOOSES to hear, and learn, and DOES SO, that is being GIVEN measures of FAITH from God.
If the man Continues, his Faith is INCREASED.
If the man Stops, his Faith is NO LONGER given him. The man falls from Faith.
The man WAS Hearing, learning, believing, being given Faith....and then decided to not hear, learn, or even believe....the man Stops, walks away, and falls from faith.
The man was NEVER given enough FAITH, to SUBMIT his life TO the Lord...And THUS, the Lord DID NOT CONVERT the man.
The man WHO, continued....the Lord continued giving the man Faith.
Of course the man IS BELIEVING....and WHY he keeps hearing, learning, following...and his Faith INCREASED.
And Absolutely Jesus IS the mans INTERCESSORY....the mans ADVOCATED...
The WAY, the TRUTH, the LIGHT, the LIFE, the POWER......of HOW A MAN CAN receive increased FAITH.....and WHO a man CAN ASK, TO BE forgiven and Converted!
And ONCE a BELIEVING MAN decides he WANTS TO GIVE HIS LIFE TO THE Lord Jesus.......The man calls on the Lord "TO" given his life TO the Lord Jesus....
And Jesus...responds...and forgives the man....and Converts this beleiving man...
With Jesus' own power and authority TO convert the man.
NOW, the man IS forgiven, saved and born again, and forever WITH the Lord.
NOW, the OLD MAN IS DEAD, and what applied to the OLD MAN IS DEAD...and what applies to the NEW MAN....is completely different....then what APPLIED to the OLD MAN!
The Lord Jesus...IS NO LONGER the mans INTERCESSORY..."between the man and God".
The NEW MAN has a DIRECT relationship WITH, His Lord, His God, WHOM...the man is supposed to have UNDERSTOOD....
THROUGH this SPIRITUAL Conversion....
IS
Christ the Lord Jesus...
thee Lord God Almighty.
We can READ, and come to our minds conclusion to believe,
Jesus is the Lord, the Son,
And the Lord, is the LORD God, the Father,
And Jesus, is the Christ, the Power, the Amighty.
But in a Spiritual Conversion...WE go THROUGH Jesus, and MEET our God, WHO IS;
Thee....Lord God Almighty.
And hence forth our Spiritual relationship is Effected THROUGH Jesus and the quickening of our spirit (born again)...to have a DIRECT relationship with thee...Lord God Almighty.
And WHAT applied to the OLD MAN is dead.
And WHAT applies to the NEW MAN is alive.
That applies to the OLD MAN.
That applies to the OLD MAN....believing, following, heading toward becoming a NEW MAN....
Well, actually, I set myself as having...BEEN the OLD MAN....and accomplished THROUGH Jesus to becoming the NEW MAN.
that you have attained sinlessness???
Well ya, I agree..."YOUR" silly words, do deserve the silly Look.
Nothing whatsoever says a Conversion renders a man "sinless".
Nor have I said I have attained such a stupid thing.
So, No, your comment does not apply to me.
Who reduced sin to nothingness?
I have never said or implied such a thing.
Jesus IS the WAY, TO learning HOW a man can HAVE HIS OLD MAN become DEAD, and A NEW MAN become LIVING.
If you have LEARNED the WAY...where did YOU come up with "ME", reducing sin to nothingness? That is something YOU came up with. That is nothing I learned or said!
And WHERE did I once CLAIM PERFECTION?
Oh right, I didnt'!!
So why are you making that claim for me?
I have already said...
Perfection IS accomplished IN. a man WHO IS
Who is IN CHRIST.
It is the Lord Himself who accomplishes MAKING the man PERFECT WITH the Lords SEED....that is Lords Perfection IN a man.
The man, accomplishes PERFECTION, by USING the PERFECTION OF THE Lord, TO
Walk in HIS WAY, serving the Lord, in HIS WAY, ......which IS A continuing process during the mans natural life span.
You should pay close attention to WHOSE words you are talking about calling God a liar.
Those are YOUR words, that you then claim is ultimately calling God a liar.
Perhaps it is your understanding that makes God a liar.
There is nothing in scripture teaching of God being fooled by men, and He giving them His Perfect incorruptable Seed, and then a man becoming corrupt, against God, and with their "FREEWILL", they becoming "UNBORN", and giving back the Lords Seed.
This is some preparatory scripture that a true believer (reborn) says to an unbeliever or a casual believer for them to believe the gospel and be saved. This is some of trigger scripture that incites us to want to really believe in our Lord and Savior.
Scripture pertaining to the OLD MAN, before one is reborn
NO one is good…we all act ungodly
(Rom 3:9) What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
(Rom 3:10) as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
(Rom 3:11) no one understands; no one seeks for God.
(Rom 3:12) All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
All have missed the Mark = sin = disqualified = rejected = lawlessness
As in Romans 3:9 above
(Rom 3:21) But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
(Rom 3:22) the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
(Rom 3:23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
(Rom 3:24) and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
(Rom 14:23) But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.
(1Jn 3:4) Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
Some Scripture pertaining to the NEW MAN.
WE ARE MADE perfect in the NEW nature and never in ourselves or by ourselves.
(Mat 5:48) You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Now if we cannot understand these previous statements, nothing after them will make any sense. Might as well stop here.
We NEED the NEW NATURE to be saved. We can never do it our own way.
The new nature in Christ CANNOT sin, AND our faith and belief in Christ has made us justified and righteous. This new nature is PERFECT, not by us alone, without it. Christ forgives our imperfections as they are now ALL (past present and future) covered because of our faith and belief. God also see no imperfection in us as he pours out his love to the true believer in his son.
(Rom 4:3) For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
(Rom 4:4) Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
(Rom 4:5) And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
there is more scripture of course....
APAK
Scripture pertaining to the OLD MAN, before one is reborn
NO one is good…we all act ungodly
(Rom 3:9) What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
(Rom 3:10) as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
(Rom 3:11) no one understands; no one seeks for God.
(Rom 3:12) All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
All have missed the Mark = sin = disqualified = rejected = lawlessness
As in Romans 3:9 above
(Rom 3:21) But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—
(Rom 3:22) the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
(Rom 3:23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
(Rom 3:24) and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
(Rom 14:23) But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.
(1Jn 3:4) Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
Some Scripture pertaining to the NEW MAN.
WE ARE MADE perfect in the NEW nature and never in ourselves or by ourselves.
(Mat 5:48) You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Now if we cannot understand these previous statements, nothing after them will make any sense. Might as well stop here.
We NEED the NEW NATURE to be saved. We can never do it our own way.
The new nature in Christ CANNOT sin, AND our faith and belief in Christ has made us justified and righteous. This new nature is PERFECT, not by us alone, without it. Christ forgives our imperfections as they are now ALL (past present and future) covered because of our faith and belief. God also see no imperfection in us as he pours out his love to the true believer in his son.
(Rom 4:3) For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
(Rom 4:4) Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
(Rom 4:5) And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
there is more scripture of course....
APAK
The measure of Faith God gives to a man I believe is according to the mans effort........
Hearing, reading, learning, The Word of God.
At the point a man feeling in his own heart, the amount of faith he has to GIVE his life to the Lord.
Sure. But is it enough for EVERY individual man?
Men are individuals. They are not all satisfied with the same exact things.
Some men can feel prepared in their Faith to submit their life to the Lord, with little Faith, while others want to delve in and know more BEFORE they commit.
Just as some men can be satisfied to EAT a little....and other men can say...hey, wait a minute...look at all this other stuff there is to eat, "I wanna eat more, before I'm satisfied".
Jesus' example with a mustard seed, is simply saying "with Him", a small amount is satisfactiory for a man to submit TO Him.
And IF you read the Scriptures,
The Disciples were steeped in Gods Word,
As was necessary FOR them to BE teachers.
So steeped, even the Disciples commented the things they learned if ALL written down, they doubted would FILL all the books in the World.
And if you also read in Scripture...the teaching Continues After a man is Born Again.
Thus the Knowledge and Understaing given a man FROM God is ENDLESS.
The Apostles teaching men....Many men Heard very little knowledge given them.
A one time visit, or from a letter. Those men were not steeped in knowledge or faith...
I have given you the understanding I have learned that applies to a NEW MAN.
No I am not going to give every Scripture in the Bible that teaches what applies to a NEW MAN. You have access to Scripture go and read and study and learn those those things for yourself, if YOU want to have the knowledge.
And no it is not my opinion of you speaking things for me that I did not say. It's a fact.
My understanding is what applies to the OLD MAN does not apply to me, because I am no longer the OLD MAN.
My opinion is; YOU have decided what applies to the OLD MAN, still applies to you, and you like others BELIEVE it applies to me and others, when it doesn't.
The OLD man "WAS" in sin, born in sin, committed sin, and shall continue to commit sin....UNTIL the OLD man IS DEAD, and a NEW man is born from an uncorruptable Seed, and THAT SEED remains within the man, and KEEPS the man, BY the SEEDS POWER, to be FREED FROM SIN.
The FREEDOM FROM SIN, is effected BY and THOUGH the OLD MAN.....BECOMING BORN AGAIN.
The OLD MAN was sin, and SUBJECT TO SIN,
SUBJECT TO THE LAW, and SUBJECT TO THE CONSEQUENCES of SIN....WHICH IS DEATH and Separation "FROM" God.
THE NEW MAN IS NONE OF THOSE THINGS.
The NEW MAN IS; BY the Lords Conversion, BY the Lords Keeping....
NOT "IN" Sin.
NOT Subject to Sin.
NOT Subject to the Consequences of Sin.
NOT ever again separated "FROM" God.
AND WHY, the NEW MAN can SIN NO MORE!
A NEW MAN "IS" "IN" Christ.
A NEW MAN "IS" redeemed from SUBJECTION
.....TO the LAW....BECAUSE JESUS BECAME SIN for the man...Gal 3:13
.....BECAUSE THE LAW was
.....FULFILLED. Matt 5:17
A NEW MAN "IS" FREED from LAW and the Redeemed from CONSEQUENCES OF the curse Laws.
( the Law was not abolished, and men who do not believe IN Christ Jesus: or that He fulfilled the the Law, remain under the Law, and the consequences of the curse Laws)
A NEW MAN NOW has the Access, to the tools/ (the Lord, His Truth, His endless Knowledge, His Wisdom, His Understanding) to SERVE the Lord....ACCORDING to the "tools" the Lord GIVES the man...
And WHEN a man USES those (tools), the man IS walking in "his new spirit", IN the Lords Spirit, and the Lord Blessess the man for doing so. It is a man Walking in perfection of the Lord, DOING what is pleasing and glorifying TO the Lord.
And a man WHOSE works....like here on this forum...men calling men liars because they Trust what the Word of God says, and because they speak about what the Lord has given them and done for them.......
Those works, do not glorify God, do not please God, and shall not be blessed or rewarded.....Those works shall be burned.
And yes with little faith as a mustard seed, some men have given their life to the Lord....and continue learning, about this NEW MAN they have become.
And other men desire to have MORE knowledge BEFORE they give their life to the Lord.
I made my choice, and know what it means, and know umpteen Scriptures NO LONGER apply to a man WHO IS A NEW MAN.
So God gives according to our effort?
That's works of the law.
Let's concentrate on one thing at a time.
In fact, let's start some threads.
You're all over the place....
Look for it. (After my dinner)
Helen
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Haha! Agree.
There are far too many different conversations going on in all the threads right now!!!
Right.
I'd like to speak to @Taken but he brings up so much that it's difficult to answer.
Maybe if we concentrated on one idea at a time????
!!
Rollo Tamasi
Well-Known Member
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