What are we really dealing with here?

[bbyrd009]

i would say that the US is beholden to the same central bank as the rest of the world, isn't a nation anyway--certainly not one nation, we got like 20 nations or something here--and we're basically prolly using diff terms to describe the same understanding i guess. Thing is that countries are not nations, so this will cause probs with Scripture @ "nations" imo

I am assuming that by 'nations' you mean nationalities....there being different nationalities within every Country?

so, nope

And if you're going to start pulling things apart and say it's not "Countries" but 'nations', you make it almost impossible to pin down

funny you say this because it is countries that (produce leaders who) are impossible to 'pin down,' isn't it? Nations speak with one voice, countries speak with forked tongue. i could even provide recent examples. Now this is a paradox, as countries are defined by borders, and seem very pinned down, right. So where are all the Yugoslavs now?

See, what "countries" do is steal the land from the nations, as any Native American or Palestinian could explain, or you might even discover if you tried to go buy any land. (and i haven't researched this at all, but i guarantee you that many of the Yugos who held titles to real estate in "Yugoslavia" are still in courts right now fighting to get their land back, especially if they are not sympatico with the current Gov/King.

So that might be illuminating; call a real estate friend or agent, and tell them you want to buy some land.
Be sure to tell them that you do not want real estate, otherwise they will of course go along with the deception to make a sale.
or better yet don't tell them--because they already know the difference--and see what you will see, plus you get the joy of correcting someone who advertises that they are professional, honest etc. A quick google search beforehand will assure you that what i am telling you is correct; you cannot buy any land

the difference in land and real estate - Google Search
but there is a lot of crap in there at the top, this is kept as quiet as possible ok. so maybe a slow search lol. i see the first several hits mostly dive right in to legal jargon, and i guess i've prolly at least not been too cryptic or whatever on the subject of Countries v Nations now. seem to be =, but not the same concept at all

 

[bbyrd009]

What on earth are you talking about? "Post one"? Are you not hearing me? Are you not hearing scripture itself? "All scripture is God breathed." ALL.

ha, talk about being vague lol. Is posting an Absolute Truth that difficult?

 

[bbyrd009]

How's that? Two truths. Jesus Christ is the image of God, and by him all things were created. The whole passage contains several more.

so i ask for an absolute truth and you give me philosophy? do we need to go over the definition of Absolute Truth again?
Absolute Truth would get no argument from a Jew, iow

so let's get clear on a definition of AT before we go any further there k
"Absolute truth is something that is true at all times and in all places. It is something that is always true no matter what the circumstances. It is a fact that cannot be changed. For example, there are no round squares."

so while you might like to think that your beliefs count, they do not

 

[brakelite]

It is commonly and correctly asserted that the “man of sin” and “son of perdition” spoken of in the NT are names given for this same entity. We are admonished by Paul regarding this entity:

2 Thess. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

In order to deceive the very elect and stand in Gods Temple, he needs to rise out of the / a Church.

What is the temple in the NT? There are actually 3.
1. God’s own sanctuary or temple in heaven.
2. The church corporate.
3. The individual Christian

The little horn cannot obviously get to heaven to stand there. Nor can he invade our own bodies. But he can invade the church. And if he is to deceive believers in the church, he must appear stealthily, acting as one of us. Professing truth, dressed in sheep’s clothing but inwardly a ravening wolf.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.
Here we see what was originally a true Christian. In the Greek the ‘falling away’ has connotations of divorce, apostasy. There is no falling away unless at first there was a right relationship. Therefore he doesn’t actually come from without the church to attack it with coercion or force, but from within, with deception and guile. John also hints at this when he says :

1 John 2:18 ¶ Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

The only other time the ‘son of perdition’ is mentioned in scripture is in reference to Judas. Judas was one of the elect. He was one of the closest select disciples who was with Jesus every day. One of the inner circle, even the treasurer. So also is the antichrist. He is presumed to be Christian. One of the closest to the Lord. In looks, in profession, in outward appearance everything suggests that he is above reproach. Let us not be deceived into believing that he is an outright outspoken sword wielding gun-toting bigoted irreligious enemy of Christ. Then where would be the deception?
Nor should we presume that the little horn represents just one man. The other horns represented kingdoms and lines of successive kings. So also does this little horn. Prophecy if anything is consistent.

The word ‘antichrist’ does not mean openly against Christ as in open warfare. The Greek word ‘anti’ means in many instances ‘in place of’ or ‘instead of’. So the apostate church establishes itself, or its leader, as a replacement of Christ in the minds and hearts of its followers.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High
Re 13:1,4. And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy…. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Satan can no longer ascend to the heights he lusted for in heaven in person as he has no further access to heaven, yet he can still, through a frontman or proxy, receive the worship and honor he feels he deserves and craves. Antichrist is his masterpiece. Because it is all about worship. Revelation 13 repeats the words worship and deceive many times. A form of worship whereby Christians are deceived and are worshipping Satan instead of Christ, through the apostate church, the ‘antichrist’, who is set up ‘in place of Christ’.
“Lord, Lord, didn’t we do many wonderful works in your name? Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you.”

 

[bbyrd009]

Clearly biblical hope is more than just 'really wishing something will happen, but not confident it will'

yes, i get that hope is "confident expectation," it is when this concept is paired with Death More Abundantly that i start to have issues, mostly. Iow our definitions of "salvation" and "saved" are vastly different too, i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Again....is that a true statement or not?

no, "if" makes it a conditional statement, sorry. It cannot possibly, ever, be considered an Absolute Truth in that form, and changing the form makes it one of your beliefs, not an AT. We call them beliefs because they cannot be proven, see.

i can agree with you that this is one of my beliefs too, but that still does not make AT. Ignoring that we define each of the concepts/terms in the passage differently anyway, right.

 

[bbyrd009]

If a Policeman was standing before someone who had a gun, and that gun was pointed at another person, and the Cop said, "If you pull that trigger, you are going to jail." Is that, or is that not, a true sentence?

ha, what do you mean by "true" here? i doubt you are asking me if it qualifies as a sentence because the syntax is correct, it includes a noun and a verb iow, right? Is it true that if the guy pulls the trigger, he will go to jail? Hardly, that remains to be seen, right. excellent example, ty

 

[bbyrd009]

My point is simple. If that guy pulls the trigger, is it true that the Cop will cuff him and take him to lock up? Was what the Cop said, true? Seems to me it was.

might be kinda hard if his head is gone, i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

I'll break it down a bit.

we're going to end up close to the same place anyway, ok, i agree that AT (God) is reflected in the Bible.

but so the nature of Scripture might become a little more clear, i'm looking for something like
"bowling balls are spheres"

 

[Truth]

might be kinda hard if his head is gone, i guess

LOL- There are Absolutely no Absolute's, and that's the Absolute Truth!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Harvest 1874]

brakelite:

What about the feet - 10 toes teach? What/who do they represent (clay and iron) today?

The legs of iron as you recall represent the Roman Empire.

The two legs represent both Rome and Constantinople each of which at one time was the Roman capital. The “feet and toes” of the image (part iron and part clay) consisted of the ten toes, which are kingdoms, corresponding to the ten horns of the beast of Dan 7:7.

Iron represents the Roman Empire more particularly, the civil power.

Clay represents the Roman Church, the religious power.

The commingling of the iron and clay represented the blending of church and state hence forth known as the Holy Roman Empire.

Their commingling one with another was simply an attempt to bolster each other’s tottering systems.

Daniel explains: "Whereas thou saw iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men [church and world blend--Babylon], but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay." They cannot thoroughly amalgamate.

"And in the days of these kings [the kingdoms represented by the toes, the so-called "Christian kingdoms" or "Christendom"] shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms; and it shall stand forever." Dan. 2:43, 44

This mixture is in the Scriptures termed "Babylon"--confusion. Stone is the symbol of the true Kingdom of God, and clay the symbol of the false Kingdom of God.

Babylon substituted an imitation of stone--clay—which it has united with the fragmentary remains of the [Iron] Roman Empire. And this mixed system--church and state--the Church nominal wedded to the kingdoms of this world, the same which the Lord calls Babylon, presumes to call itself Christendom--Christ's Kingdom.

 

[Harvest 1874]

When Daniel mentioned in verse 2 the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea, this is symbolic language representing war and strife amongst nations. (Rev.17:15; Isaiah 17:12,13; Jer. 51:1; Jer. 25:32,33.)

“Daniel spoke, saying, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea.” Dan 7:2

Although your interpretation has its merits we are more inclined to believe the true “strife” which was taking place was that which was taking place behind the seen.

“The four winds seen by the Prophet Daniel that “strove upon the great sea” (that is, restless humanity) effectively dramatized, in time past, the role of Satan and the fallen angels, even the strong mental projection of thought (Matt. 4:1–11) and the exercise of their influence upon the minds of Adam’s race (John 8:44). This spirit power engendered the development of ideologies and events conducive to the origin and birth of the various beastly world powers from the Prophet’s day onward (Dan. 7:2–7).

The blowing of wind upon the waters shows a direct relationship between principalities and powers, of which the Apostle Paul spoke (Eph. 6:12), and earth beings here below (Rev. 17:15). The striving of the winds upon the great sea implies some frenetic difficulty in manipulating the minds of “the children of disobedience” (Col. 3:6) on the part of the Adversary and his cohorts, as well as some degree of dissension in the ranks of the fallen angels themselves. Yet Beelzebub, as leader of the demons, has yet to be displaced as the great usurper in spite of the various changes in regime. He is still “the god of this world,” “the prince of the devils,” “the prince of the power of the air” (2 Cor. 4:4; Matt. 12:24; Eph. 2:2).

It is important to distinguish between the winds of earth and the winds of heaven (as in Verse 2). The various wars and strife’s symbolized by winds have various causes. Some are based on ecclesiastical questions, some on social. Some are caused by the interactions of men, some by the interference of fallen spirits. Thus some are characterized by winds of heaven (ecclesiastical or demonical), and some by winds of earth (social or political.) In Rev 7:1, the strife is social-political (earth). It is, however, important to note that what occurs in society frequently has the planning or backing of the spirit powers behind it. Thus, in Dan. 7, the winds of heaven (the fallen spirits) strive on the sea (restless humanity) to form the four empires which will dominate Daniel’s people until the 20th Century.

Each of these four empires apparently had a fallen angel as its head as can be deducted by the angel of the Lord’s conversation with Daniel found in Dan. 10:20.

“Then he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? And now I must return to fight with the prince of Persia; and when I have gone forth, indeed the prince of Greece will come.”

How do we know that this reference to a “prince” is in regards to a fallen spirit rather than to an earthly prince, well if we take a look at Verse 13 of the same chapter it should be abundantly clear:

“But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.”

Obviously an earthly prince would have proven no match for Gabriel, certainly would not have been able to withstand him 21 days. It is obvious that this was a very powerful demon as Gabriel required the assistance of Michael (our Lord in his pre-human existence) to help restrain him.

It is not our intention here to poke holes in braklite’s study we merely wish to add to the discussion that which we ourselves have gleamed from a study of this same subject, thus contributing our individual share in personal study as admonished in the Holy Scriptures. (See Eph 4:13-16).

Therefore if we see anything in this presentation which we would like to add to or to present an alternative view point we will post it as soon as possible. Personally I’m a bit behind in this discussion so it will take me a bit of time to get caught up.

 

[brakelite]

“Daniel spoke, saying, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea.” Dan 7:2

Although your interpretation has its merits we are more inclined to believe the true “strife” which was taking place was that which was taking place behind the seen.

“The four winds seen by the Prophet Daniel that “strove upon the great sea” (that is, restless humanity) effectively dramatized, in time past, the role of Satan and the fallen angels, even the strong mental projection of thought (Matt. 4:1–11) and the exercise of their influence upon the minds of Adam’s race (John 8:44). This spirit power engendered the development of ideologies and events conducive to the origin and birth of the various beastly world powers from the Prophet’s day onward (Dan. 7:2–7).

The blowing of wind upon the waters shows a direct relationship between principalities and powers, of which the Apostle Paul spoke (Eph. 6:12), and earth beings here below (Rev. 17:15). The striving of the winds upon the great sea implies some frenetic difficulty in manipulating the minds of “the children of disobedience” (Col. 3:6) on the part of the Adversary and his cohorts, as well as some degree of dissension in the ranks of the fallen angels themselves. Yet Beelzebub, as leader of the demons, has yet to be displaced as the great usurper in spite of the various changes in regime. He is still “the god of this world,” “the prince of the devils,” “the prince of the power of the air” (2 Cor. 4:4; Matt. 12:24; Eph. 2:2).

It is important to distinguish between the winds of earth and the winds of heaven (as in Verse 2). The various wars and strife’s symbolized by winds have various causes. Some are based on ecclesiastical questions, some on social. Some are caused by the interactions of men, some by the interference of fallen spirits. Thus some are characterized by winds of heaven (ecclesiastical or demonical), and some by winds of earth (social or political.) In Rev 7:1, the strife is social-political (earth). It is, however, important to note that what occurs in society frequently has the planning or backing of the spirit powers behind it. Thus, in Dan. 7, the winds of heaven (the fallen spirits) strive on the sea (restless humanity) to form the four empires which will dominate Daniel’s people until the 20th Century.

Each of these four empires apparently had a fallen angel as its head as can be deducted by the angel of the Lord’s conversation with Daniel found in Dan. 10:20.

“Then he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? And now I must return to fight with the prince of Persia; and when I have gone forth, indeed the prince of Greece will come.”

How do we know that this reference to a “prince” is in regards to a fallen spirit rather than to an earthly prince, well if we take a look at Verse 13 of the same chapter it should be abundantly clear:

“But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia.”

Obviously an earthly prince would have proven no match for Gabriel, certainly would not have been able to withstand him 21 days. It is obvious that this was a very powerful demon as Gabriel required the assistance of Michael (our Lord in his pre-human existence) to help restrain him.

It is not our intention here to poke holes in braklite’s study we merely wish to add to the discussion that which we ourselves have gleamed from a study of this same subject, thus contributing our individual share in personal study as admonished in the Holy Scriptures. (See Eph 4:13-16).

Therefore if we see anything in this presentation which we would like to add to or to present an alternative view point we will post it as soon as possible. Personally I’m a bit behind in this discussion so it will take me a bit of time to get caught up.

Interesting about the 4 winds...I see that there can certainly be a nuance and understanding there that contrasts Daniel 7:2 and Revel. 7:1. That there is a heated spiritual warfare going on all around us is without dispute...and we are the prize.
I agree about the prince of Persia. Definitely demonic. Also agree concerning the ID of Michael. Disagree with the KJV that has it translated as Michael being "one of" the chief princes. There can be only one archangel...and there was only one mentioned in scripture...Arche meaning head. Michael. The Lord of hosts.

 

[APAK]

The legs of iron as you recall represent the Roman Empire.

The two legs represent both Rome and Constantinople each of which at one time was the Roman capital. The “feet and toes” of the image (part iron and part clay) consisted of the ten toes, which are kingdoms, corresponding to the ten horns of the beast of Dan 7:7.

Iron represents the Roman Empire more particularly, the civil power.

Clay represents the Roman Church, the religious power.

The commingling of the iron and clay represented the blending of church and state hence forth known as the Holy Roman Empire.

Their commingling one with another was simply an attempt to bolster each other’s tottering systems.

Daniel explains: "Whereas thou saw iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men [church and world blend--Babylon], but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay." They cannot thoroughly amalgamate.

"And in the days of these kings [the kingdoms represented by the toes, the so-called "Christian kingdoms" or "Christendom"] shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms; and it shall stand forever." Dan. 2:43, 44

This mixture is in the Scriptures termed "Babylon"--confusion. Stone is the symbol of the true Kingdom of God, and clay the symbol of the false Kingdom of God.

Babylon substituted an imitation of stone--clay—which it has united with the fragmentary remains of the [Iron] Roman Empire. And this mixed system--church and state--the Church nominal wedded to the kingdoms of this world, the same which the Lord calls Babylon, presumes to call itself Christendom--Christ's Kingdom.

Harvest 1874:
Great report....what is really new here for me, was the introduction of the imitation stone versus the clay. I would then even consider that those of the clay are the false believers in this imitation Kingdom, and those of the true stone are the true believers of the Kingdom of God.

APAK

 

[Harvest 1874]

Interesting about the 4 winds...I see that there can certainly be a nuance and understanding there that contrasts Daniel 7:2 and Revel. 7:1. That there is a heated spiritual warfare going on all around us is without dispute...and we are the prize.
I agree about the prince of Persia. Definitely demonic. Also agree concerning the ID of Michael. Disagree with the KJV that has it translated as Michael being "one of" the chief princes. There can be only one archangel...and there was only one mentioned in scripture...Arche meaning head. Michael. The Lord of hosts.

Glad you mentioned this last concerning the Arch Angel, I was going to say something but didn't want to risk opening up another can of worms and drifting off subject, nevertheless you are correct there is only one Arch or Chief Angel (messenger of the Lord) and that is the "Logos" our Lord, the Word of God.

 

[Phoneman777]

The timeline leads accurately to Jesus Christ and his sacrifice. Things get suitably...vague, after that. You get several different schools of thought on the 'left over' time that will see us to the AC. Some say that 'timeline' stopped until the end...and good luck knowing when that will start again. Some say all of the time between Christ's ascension and his return is a symbolic representation of that leftover time, in which case the AC could show up at any point. Others think that leftover time is not symbolic, but is still a long period of time that will just start clicking over at some point that heaven determines.
As you can see...many theories, all of them have scripture to back up their ideas. Some are clearly...I would say...better than others, but there are many godly men who hold to these different theories. Men who can count as well as you, can read their bible as well as you, and can pray like their life depends on it.

What "leftover time"? Historicism demonstrates that prophecy parallels history from the 1st to the 2nd Coming.

 

[Harvest 1874]

What "leftover time"? Historicism demonstrates that prophecy parallels history from the 1st to the 2nd Coming.

Actually the parallels between the two ages, the Jewish age and the Gospel age go back much further than just the first advent, they go all the way back to their beginnings with the death of Jacob. These parallels are referred to in the scriptures as Israels "Double" which God inflicted upon them for their iniquity and sin (Zech 9:12; Jer 16:13-18;Isa 40:1,2). The length of each of these Ages is proved from the Scriptures to be exactly 1845 years, so that any date in the former has its parallel date in the latter. It is important to recognize that "time-parallels," to be of any value, must correspond in events as well as in dates.

There are a number of striking parallels in the two Ages, which help to confirm our understanding of the times and seasons; they correspond so closely that we cannot doubt they were so arranged by our loving heavenly Father, that the faith of his consecrated children might be strengthened in Him, and in His great Plan of the Ages.

But of course this is for another study altogether and at another time.

 

[Phoneman777]

Actually the parallels between the two ages, the Jewish age and the Gospel age go back much further than just the first advent, they go all the way back to their beginnings with the death of Jacob. These parallels are referred to in the scriptures as Israels "Double" which God inflicted upon them for their iniquity and sin (Zech 9:12; Jer 16:13-18;Isa 40:1,2). The length of each of these Ages is proved from the Scriptures to be exactly 1845 years, so that any date in the former has its parallel date in the latter. It is important to recognize that "time-parallels," to be of any value, must correspond in events as well as in dates.

There are a number of striking parallels in the two Ages, which help to confirm our understanding of the times and seasons; they correspond so closely that we cannot doubt they were so arranged by our loving heavenly Father, that the faith of his consecrated children might be strengthened in Him, and in His great Plan of the Ages.

But of course this is for another study altogether and at another time.

The two following eschatological principles are well substantiated: 1) "Repetition and Enlargement" where God reviews the events of preceding prophecies while adding more details to each successive prophecy like any good classroom teacher, and 2) "prophecy begins in the day of the prophet and covers history down to the end of time". If prophecy students would start calculating from where Daniel plainly tells us - the time of the Babylonian kingdom - there should be no question where we are now on the great prophetic timetable. But the unwelcome conclusion of a Papal Antichrist with all its unsavory implications:

• no secret rapture "evacuation" from tribulation which might bring to them suffering or a martyr's death
• no 7 year tribulation "second chance" for iniquitous "Christians" who constantly quench the Holy Spirit's convicting voice with "I'm under grace, not under law" but know they're lives are not in harmony with the will of God.
• no neutral "spiritual Switzerland" where we don't have to identify and prepare to stand against the Beast, the Mark of the Beast, the Name of the Beast, the number of the Beast, etc.

...is why so many tirelessly search the Bible to find the false "Left Behind" theology of Jesuit Futurism and its future Antichrist, where Jesus will sneak into town and sneak out with them before it arises. Cowardly and irresponsible to say the least.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Our friend brakelite has given us a very good general outline (both historical and scriptural) of events leading up to the Antichrist (system), we should therefore like to follow suit, but here we will focus more on one particular aspect of the deceptive system which when rightly understood ensures us of the true identity of the Antichrist, and when exactly he made his appearance.

The Abomination of Desolation

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the Prophet, stand in the holy place (whosoever reads let him understand): then let them that be in Judea flee into the mountains: let him which is on the housetop not come down to take anything out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child and to those that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in winter, neither on the Sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time; no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Matt. 24:15-22; Mark 13:14-20

The statement by our Lord, “Whosoever reads let him understand (i.e. consider)”, implied that there would be a danger that some would misunderstand the real abomination spoken of.

In order to understand “What” or “Who” the “Abomination that causes desolation” is, it is first necessary to understand a little history, which led up to this desolating abomination (this is simply a little rehash of what brakelite has already presented).

The usual inference by the church nominal, orthodoxy, in regards to this prophecy of Daniel’s, is that the “Abomination that causes desolation” represents the fact that even though Christ had paid the price in full, that he had fulfilled the type, becoming the antitypical sacrifice, thus causing the sacrifices and oblations of the Law to have ceased, some of the Jews continued, (due to their lack of acceptance of our Lord as the one true sacrifice), to offer up the typical sacrifices, this the prophet states is the “overspreading (prevailing or continuance in) abominations” Dan 9:27.

Although it is true that their religion became an abomination, an empty form, a mark of their repudiation of the one sacrifice for sins, which God had provided, and thus they invoked upon themselves (“blindness”, Matt 27:25) and became a “desolate” (rejected nation), this was not merely a prophecy in regards to this abomination.

Daniel's prophecy has much to say about the Abomination that makes Desolate in nominal spiritual Israel (i.e. the church nominal, the professing church), which was set up in power representatively in Papacy, and which has exercised a great and baneful influence of spiritual desolation in the spiritual house or temple of God, the Church of Christ. This abominable system of error was to continue until the cleansing of the sanctuary class; and beyond that it was to prosper greatly and lead many in nominal spiritual Israel to repudiate the ransom-sacrifice, given once for all; and the result of its overspreading influence would be the desolation of rejected Christendom.

In the second chapter of Daniel we read of how Daniel when interpreting King Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, revealed that the “great image” which the King saw was indeed a representation of the four universal empires, which would rule the world (This is what the scriptures designate “The times of the Gentiles” we will not go into detail describing these here as brakelite has already done a fine job explaining them).

Let us jump now to the Eleventh Chapter of Daniel Verse 2, which begins with the Medo-Persian Empire, the fourth and last king being Darius III Codomanus.

“And now will I show thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the Realm of Grecian.” (Verse 2)

“And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.” (Verse 3)

The mighty king of Verse 3 is indeed Alexander the Great, of Greece.

“And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those” (Verse 4)

Though Alexander conquered the world in the short period of thirteen years, the kingdom did not continue as one nation in his family after his death, but was divided by his four generals and broken into fragments generally, as was stated in Verse 4. Notice here the correspondence of this prophesy with that of Dan: 8:3-9, 20-25. Here it is shown that out of one of the divisions of Alexander's empire (compare Verses 8, 9 and 21) would come forth a "little horn" or power, which would become exceedingly great. This evidently refers to Rome, which rose to influence upon the ruins of Greece. From being an insignificant subject whose ambassadors hastened to acknowledge the Grecian supremacy, and to become part of the empire at the feet of Alexander the Great, Rome rose gradually to supremacy.

As we had mention the “feet” of the image consisted of both iron and clay, the iron representing the civil powers, and the clay representing the clerical powers of ecclesiasticism, as the Imperial power of Rome began to wane and the Clerical power slowly came to both life and ambition, each sought to use the other for its own selfish ends, while denying such designs. And so it reads in Dan 11:27:

"And the heart of the two kings shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper [come to be, then at that time], because as yet the end is unto another time."

Or, to express the thought more plainly, a certain period of 1260 years had been appointed of God as the length of Papacy's persecuting power; hence the union or league between the clergy and the civil power could "not prosper" (begin) then, because the 1260 years counted from that date would have brought "the end" too soon; therefore it must be put off, or held back, and allowed to come about gradually by the decay of the empire in Italy.

We know that in the end of this contest between the civil and religious rulers Papacy was victorious; and the prophecy reads, "Arms shall stand on his part [or, "strong ones out of him stand up"--Young's translation], and shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the continual sacrifice, and they will set up the desolating abomination (Dan 11:31).

We will continue with our next post.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Continued from previous post.

Christ’s continual sacrifice was not actually canceled or abolished by Papacy, but it was set aside by a false doctrine advanced by that system — which gradually, but in the end fully and completely, set aside the merit of Christ’s sacrifice as a continual and ever-efficacious one. This false doctrine is known as the Mass or Sacrifice of the Mass.”

“The death of Christ, they claim, canceled Adamic or original sin, but is not applicable for our daily shortcomings, weaknesses, sins and omissions; it is not a continual sacrifice, ever meritorious for all our sins, ever sufficient and efficacious to cover as a robe every sinner and every sin, so as to permit the contrite one to come back into union and fellowship with God. For such sins the Sacrifice of the Mass was instituted. High mass is a particular sacrifice of Christ for a particular individual. Low mass is a sacrifice of Christ for the general sins of a congregation.

Some may query, is not the mass merely the Eucharist, the Lord’s Supper, under another name? (No!) It is wholly different. The Lord’s Supper celebrates the death of Christ accomplished at Calvary; the mass represents a new sacrifice for sins made every time it is performed.”

The Christ to be thus sacrificed afresh is first ‘created’ from wheat bread and wine by the officiating priest. They are ordinary bread and wine until laid upon the altar, when certain words of consecration, it is claimed, change the bread and wine into the actual flesh and blood of Christ. Then they are bread and wine no longer, though they still have such an appearance. This change is called the transubstantiation— change of substance.”

This in the Scriptures is called an ‘abomination’ in God’s sight, because it disregards, sets at naught, the statement of the Scriptures that Christ dies no more, that by one sacrifice he hath perfected forever all who come unto the Father through him...” (Rom.6: 9): “Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead Dies no more; death hath no more dominion over him.”

The following are some scripture proofs of the error of Mass:

“Wherefore he is able to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. Who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.” (Heb 7:25, 27)

“So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.” (Heb 9:28)

“For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” (Heb 10:12-14)

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” (1 Tim 2:5, 6)

As stated the “continual sacrifice” is generally supposed by Orthodoxy to be referring to the daily or continual burnt-offerings of the Jews at Jerusalem; however the prophecy, passes by the typical burnt-offerings, and deals with the antitypical, Christ’s meritorious sacrifice once for all and forever — a continual, ever-efficacious sacrifice, for the sins of the whole world.”

As for when it was “set up” the scriptures give the answer, (proving that it is not something to be set up in the future, but rather something which was set up in the past).

“And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days (1290 days).” Dan 12:11

The fall of the Ostrogothic kingdom in A.D.539 was, clearly indicated by the prophetic measure (1260 years), the exact point of time when this desolating and, in the sight of God, abominable system was ‘set up.’”

Romanists claim that Christ and the apostles instituted the Mass; but the earliest mention of it we have been able to find was at the Council of Constantinople, A.D. 381. However, the date of the introduction of this defiling error is not particularly referred to in the prophecy, except that by reason of this fundamental error Papacy became the ‘Abomination of Desolation’ before it was, as such, ‘set up’ in power which, we have stated, was in A.D. 539.”

Looking at the typical and Anti-Typical fulfillment of the Abomination of Desolation, we see that although it may have had a typical application to the trouble in the end of the Jewish age, its real or most important application belongs to the trouble with which the Gospel age terminates. We see in this another parallelism between the end of the Jewish harvest and the end of the Gospel harvest. Fleshly Israel’s rejection of the true sacrifice for sins, and their retention of the typical sacrifices which were no longer acceptable to God, but abominations, was an important incident in connection with their national and ecclesiastical fall. So here, the rejection of the doctrine of the ransom and the acceptance of either masses or good works or penances instead, is an important incident in connection with the fall of Christendom, civil and ecclesiastical. (See our blog for more on the Ransom)

The Importance of recognizing this “abomination” in the “Time of the End” is stressed by our Lord as an important matter, not only to ones faith, but also as an evidence of the Lord’s “parousia” (presence).

“When ye therefore shall see (that is through the eyes of your understanding; grasp, understand, perceive, recognize, who or what) the abomination of desolation (is, which was), spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whosoever reads, let him understand) Matt.24: 15

As stated the implication is that there would be a danger in misunderstanding, (i.e. not recognizing) “what” or “who” the real abomination was. The correct identification of this abomination is but another clue or evidence as to who the “Man of Sin” or “ANTICHRIST” is.

“He who has an ear (a disposition to hearken to and heed the word of the Lord) let him hear” Rev 3:22