As I said before, we need to end this discussion since we are both set in our beliefs. You refuse to accept that "evening" carries two definitions; 1) late afternoon and 2) after the sun sets. Because you can't accept that, you speak evil of me.
Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy
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Where simultaneously writing of the same event or subject the Gospels MUST be read TOGETHER and UNDERSTOOD together or the heavenly harmony of their Truth is falsified and made horrifying untruth.
First "the Jews came" but before they came "the evening was come", sunset, "and asked Pilate that the crucified be removed"; then "the soldiers came and broke the bones of the crucified but pierced Jesus' side"; "And after these things Joseph, evening having had come already, came", he having had to wait for opportunity, "fearing the Jews", still busy asking Pilate, that they might thwart his plans, and ("after" them), "went in and asked for the body .. and Pilate consented .. and commanded the body to be delivered to Joseph .. who took it and prostrated it .. on purchased (for the purpose) special linen." "THEN Nicodemus who AT THE FIRST NIGHT had met him (Joseph), came", and they together, further "handled" and "treated the body of Jesus to the Jews' custum(-of-Torah-Law) preparing it for TO BURY (it / Him)."
"At Night" - Accusative 'Nuktos' = "The First" - "To Prohtohn' from Exodus 12:8,14,41,42,43 "NO stranger" to the Salvation wrought in Christ for the Israel of God "shall EAT of" or "AT THAT NIGHT SOLEMNLY TO BE OBSERVED" EVER ATE OF!
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That is not what is written. What is written is that the body should "NOT stay hanging" (after the sun had set beginning night), "ALL NIGHT",
and,
was to be buried "That Selfsame Whole-Day BONE-DAY" = 'etsem yom' .. the, most special word of the Law as well as prophets for specifically the day of and FOR internment of "that which remained" of the hung or the passover's dead, JESUS.
.
The Adverb, 'opse', is the NT word for "late afternoon" like in Matthew 28:1.
But according to usage without exception ever,
the Noun, 'heh opsia', means dusk ~after the sun sets~ like in John 20:1,2, until it is proper darkness of night.
I do not ~refuse~ these plain facts of INCIDENCE. But Sunday worshipping Christianity's scholars and translators have to FAKE a Sunday Resurrection OR THEY HAVE NOTHING FOR THEIR SUNDAY WORSHIPPING. I try to convince you of sober reality, yet you say I ~speak evil~ of you... You can't be serious...
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Isn't it interesting how Jesus says he is Lord of the Sabbath? Do you think that statement might be connected to the fact that he was the creator? I wonder if in giving his commandments at Sinai He might have had a blonde moment and didn't really mean the fourth commandment? at least not for later rotations of the earth around the sun?
And isn't it interesting that the description 'Lords Day' even though we all know which day Jesus was referring to when he said he was Lord of the Sabbath has been hijacked and transferred to the first day of the week. Yes, Jesus was resurrected on the first day of the week but is this a justified reason for calling it the Lords Day? Could we not also call the sixth day of the week the Lords Day with the justification that he died for our sins on that day? And what makes us think that the disciples gathering on the Lords Day didn't mean the seventh day?
It is men who have played and twisted Gods words. It is men who place emphasis where emphasis is not intended. It is men who attempt to make God appear fickle by changing his mind even though he says I do not change unless of course we think he is subject to blonde moments.
It is men who have substituted the commandment of men for the commandments of God using Gods own words to justify their rebellion because that is what sin is, the transgression of the Law.
Smoothly packaged violation of context is what Jesus warns us to be a look out for. 'don't be deceived, I have told you in advance'.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
oops, that was meant to read the other way around as in 'It is men who have substituted the commandments of God for the commandments of men.
Well, I really wanted to end this discussion, but you keep making awful blunders that need correcting. "THEN Nicodemus who AT THE FIRST NIGHT had met him (Joseph), came". That verse refers to Nicodemus coming at night to meet Yeshua for the first time in John 3.
Yes, it should "NOT stay hanging" (after the sun had set beginning night)". In other words, it was to be taken down before the sun set starting a new day. The words "all night" are not in the Hebrew text. They are the translators interpretation of "lun" meaning "stop" or "cease".
The word 'Jesus' is a corruption. Not only is it not in most and best manuscripts, it messes up the context and even syntax. The passage records and presupposes events and circumstances which although not so detailed as in John, are recorded and as a matter of course are presupposed by the other Gospels. But only John records the meeting between Joseph and Nicodemus on "That First Night" of seven days unleavened bread was supposed to be eaten.
No disciples knew Nicodemus or Joseph personally, but Nicodemus and Joseph knew each other because they were both members of the sanhedrin, and the sanhedrin regularly every year came together for the passover meal "At That First Night" as prescribed in the Torah.
Now no disciples knew of Nicodemus' private and secret meeting with Jesus three and halve years in the unknown past. The insertion of the name Jesus by some late copiest is unmistakable evidence that he tried to make that which was secret and unknown, look like it happened in the open and everybody knew it.
It makes no sense and serves no purpose at this point and stage of Jesus' last passover to out of the blue mention his name in connection with something that was irrelevant to the day and date and even night and hour "At That First Night" of His Last Passover of Yahweh.
Pertinent and relevant "AT THAT FIRST NIGHT" OF UNLEAVENED BREAD was the fact that "Nicodemus came to him...", Joseph, not any secret meeting between two strangers three and halve years in the past which none of the disciples ever could have known about or in the least would have been concerned about.
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The words '~after the sun had set beginning night~' are not in the Hebrew text. They are your perversion of 'lun' which in context, means "all night". You apply 'lun' to the day which the killed was hanged on, before sunset, ~stopped~ -- directly the contrary of the truth.
The context, connects 'lun' with the night the hanged had not to stay hanged through, but, "not, all night" like the KJV correctly has it.
Yet you, again, directly the contrary of the truth, claim the hanged was to be hanged and '~taken down before the sun set starting a new day~' in other words he hanged all day the whole day until the day, according to you stopped. You saying ~before~ means no, the whole day long the hanged had to stay hanged. You twist the word, you abuse it, as you do every word.
But you have long enough begged to have your mouth stopped.
Deuteronomy 21:23 'Ean tini apothanehi kai kremasehte auton epi ksulon, ou koimehthehsetai to sohma autou epi tou ksulou'
"If he be put to death and ye hang him, his body shall not remain [LXX from 'koimaomai' - 'sleep' all night [“in the night while we slept” Matthew 28:13 Luke 23:48] upon the tree, but ye shall bury it That Day (following)" Exodus 12:8-10 to 14:12 LXX 'koimaoh' Deuteronomy 14:12 "the flesh which thou sacrificedst the first day late, mid-afternoon, shall not remain / sleep all night until the morning."
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Late afternoon is late afternoon; in no case is late afternoon, the evening. Evening is evening; in no case is the evening, the afternoon late or early. Afternoon does not have an evening, early evening or late evening. The evening does not have an afternoon, not from late on, not from early on. You're talking bollie.
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It is irrelevant whether the text says "Iesous" or not. It is obvious it refers to the meeting in John 3 which took place at night. It makes perfect sense to explain who Nicodemus was (the same Nicodemus who came to Yeshua at night the first time they met). There are no texts whatsoever that have "Joseph" in the text, are there? You are reading that into the text.
LOL! Give me a break GE! Those were YOUR words that I quoted! They are not my perversion, but your OWN WORDS in post #1083 that I agreed with;
"That is not what is written. What is written is that the body should "NOT stay hanging" (after the sun had set beginning night), "ALL NIGHT"
"Lun" refers to stopping the body from hanging all night.
I will stop it for you as I should have done long ago. This discussion is permanently over. I leave you in your deception.
‘Lun / lin’ is NEVER rendered as ‘~stopping~’ anything!
It means the opposite!
Youngs…
“abide” x 4
“ABIDE ALL NIGHT” x 6
“be left” x 1
“continue” x 1
“dwell” x 1
“endure” x 1
“grudge” x 1
“LIE ALL NIGHT” x 3
“lodge” x 30
“LODGE ALL NIGHT” x 1
“lodge in” x 2
“lodge this NIGHT” x 1
“REMAIN” x 7
“tarry” x 1
“TARRY ALL NIGHT” x 6
“tarry THAT Night” x 3
As Infin. “lodging” x 1
Hiph. “cause to lodge” x 1
Hithp. “abide” x 2
I am therefore of the opinion that words like
‘lull’ and ‘lullabuy’,
and words and concepts like
‘lodge’ – imminent action or ‘place to sleep overnight’ after ‘today’,
or ‘lodging turn’ – a prospective ‘period of duty involving sleeping nights away from home’,
are from the Hebrew ‘lun / lin’ which you here are claiming means
finished, ‘stopped’, the same day daylight before sunset.
Nobody else will do it for me, which does not disturb or perturb me, so that I, forced by the ignorance of persons like you and others in this present discourse reminiscent of the inferiority complex which gives itself away through the haughtiness and belittling disdain of biblcal scholarship which I have had to bear the brunt of all my life, do not hesitate to here lay claim to my deserving many such contributions like herein made once again, to a better understanding of the etymology and meaning of words and ideas in the Bible.
You, Gadar Perets, cannot, and do not have the ability or means or capability, to teach me anything. So thanks but no thanks for your insistent attempts at correcting me. It’s valueless and useless.
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Your capacity to perceive is not.
'~the meeting in John 3 which took place at night~', is what is '~irrelevant~', in fact so irrelevant it is neither mentioned nor at all implied or required contextually.
Moreover what is more irrelevant is your besottedness with names and how they faked by you and your ilk are supposedly supposed to be spelled and pronounced, '~whether the text says "Iesous" or not~'. It's irritatingly idiotically RIDICULOUS man! WHERE is it, '~the meeting in John 3 which took place at night~', '~obvious~'!? Where does '~it~' - "he came to him At That Night", '~refer to the meeting in John 3 which took place at night~'. WHERE?! HOW?! It's non-existing in the Text; worms eating up your brains bred it out.
Joseph is in the text, in all four Gospels; Joseph is the Subject, the undertaker, the man of the hour, of the day and the date and, of the OCCASION of Jesus' BURIAL "This That Selfsame Whole Day BONE-DAY" of the Passover of Yahweh "on the first day seven days ulb ye shall eat ... with the flesh ... That Night Solemnly to be Observed" in the OT times by Israel, and "in these last days" by Our Passover Lamb of God Appointed and Predestined "according to the Scriptures ... to the ethical Law of the Jews TO BURY": "that which remained" of the flesh, the body of Jesus "according to the Scriptures", "on the fifteenth day of the First Month", "This That Selfsame Whole Day BONE-DAY" of the Passover of Yahweh.
And so began Joseph to bury Jesus with first having "asked" for and obtained the body, having "received" it and "laid it down" and having started "treating" it, AND THEN "came there Nicodemus who That First Night came to him - Joseph" and together they further "prepared" the body FOR INTERMENT "That Day great day of sabbath" of the passover FOR TO bury the passover sacrifice, THIS THAT BONE-DAY the DIVINE "LAMB OF GOD", "Our Passover".
"AND THEN" in fact must also be in quotation marks, from 'ehlthen oun ... ehlthen de'.
"And then came there Nicodemus, WHO 'That First Night' came to him" - Joseph, recorded John that event, that "evening", that fulfilment "according to the Scriptures", the Passover-of-Yahweh-Scriptures, the Scriptures of Law and the Psalms and the Prophets -- no night three and half years ago which he mentioned in the very same book, his own Gospel.
The Gospel of John is not prophesy or meant to be prophesy about Jesus; it is about OT Prophesy about Jesus fulfilled in the events which John recorded in his Gospel. But Gadar Perets makes of '~the meeting in John 3~', prophesy, just because it '~took place at night~'. GP makes of it a prophetic night eventually fulfilled "at that night" in chapter 19 of John's Gospel.
The night in John 3 had no bearing on "That First Night" John recorded in chapter 19 or on the fact it was "That First Night" of ulb at passover.
The night and meeting in John 3 is not numbered that it was Jesus and Nicodemus' "first meeting" or that they ever met again.
All these implications are fanciful nonsense only thought out when it is shown the day Jesus was Crucified was the day before He was Buried so that He had to Resurrect on the Sabbath as WRITTEN in all the Scripture, "God the Seventh Day from all his works rested" and not on Sunday.
It, '~the meeting in John 3~', makes no sense '~to explain who Nicodemus was (the same Nicodemus who came to Yeshua at night the first time they met)~' because they NEVER MET again afterwards. Even your assumptions are faked.
But the irony! GP makes of '~the meeting in John 3 which took place at night~' a prophetic night eventually fulfilled "At That Night" in chapter 19 of John's Gospel BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEREWITH WANTS TO PROVE IT HAPPENED IN DAYLIGHT BEFORE SUNSET!
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gadar perets said: ↑
I started the thread, "Remember the Sabbath Day to Keep It Holy" in order to teach people about the Sabbath, its importance, and why they should be keeping it. I expected people to fight against it and sway people away from keeping it. I never expected a fellow Sabbath keeper to undermine that thread. You have done more to sway people away from keeping the Sabbath than the Sabbath opponents themselves. They see two Sabbath keepers in total disagreement rather than presenting a united front against Sabbath breaking and for Sabbath keeping. From your very first post you became adversarial instead of joining me in teaching these people.
Even though I refuse to continue to argue with you, you still continue to argue with me to the point that no one else desires to discuss the Sabbath anymore. Several pages have gone by with no discussion with non-Sabbath keepers. For the sake of the Sabbath truth, I am asking you to discontinue arguing with me and start contributing posts that will help others understand and embrace the Sabbath.
https://www.christianityboard.com/conversations/sabbath-thread.3838/#message-20949
I have been the only person who contributed positively to help you and others understand and embrace the Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD. This very sentence illustrates. I haven’t seen you do likewise.
I have been the only person who contributed positively to help understand and embrace the Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD on the ONLY basis, substance, advantage, whatever good and positive it is endowed with… I showed the Scriptures that they teach Christ’s Lordship of his Rest Day on one condition and truth and historical reality, THAT GOD RAISED UP CHRIST FROM THE DEAD “ON THE SABBATH”.
I haven’t seen you do likewise. Instead, you undermine this Bible fact and truth, and more than Sabbath opponents themselves, instead, attempt to sway people away from it.
So people only see two supposed to be Sabbath keepers in total disagreement rather than presenting a united front for the Sabbath or against Sunday and its proponents who rob the Sabbath of THIS, its ONLY honour and title, the Godly truth that God raised Christ from the dead ON IT ... not that anyone, you, or I, 'keep' it.
Therefore from my very first post I was adversarial instead of joining you in teaching people the Big Lie Sunday observance rests on.
So yes, I also have not stopped refuting your ‘arguments’ you even now continue with, knowing full well through years of experience that no one would like to discuss the TRUTH which “God thus concerning the Seventh Day spake…” PARTICULARLY spake, that “God the day The Seventh Day, from ALL, HIS, WORKS, RESTED” -- rested IN CHRIST -- rested in Christ IN RESURRECTION from the dead: “IN THE END AND END-PURPOSE OF THE SABBATH”. Matthew 28:1.
Then no matter how many proofs or how many times presented to people, I know THEY WILL NOT BELIEVE OR STAND IT THE BETTER THEY UNDERSTAND IT... like you for example.
But I will never and for nobody ‘~discontinue arguing~’ for TRUTH, common sense, honesty and SIMPLICITY in matters of The Christian Faith “according to the Scriptures”. So help me God, I will rather embrace Christ the Word of God's Law for me, because He, embraced me first.
I started the thread, "Remember the Sabbath Day to Keep It Holy" in order to teach people about the Sabbath, its importance, and why they should be keeping it. I expected people to fight against it and sway people away from keeping it. I never expected a fellow Sabbath keeper to undermine that thread. You have done more to sway people away from keeping the Sabbath than the Sabbath opponents themselves. They see two Sabbath keepers in total disagreement rather than presenting a united front against Sabbath breaking and for Sabbath keeping. From your very first post you became adversarial instead of joining me in teaching these people.
Even though I refuse to continue to argue with you, you still continue to argue with me to the point that no one else desires to discuss the Sabbath anymore. Several pages have gone by with no discussion with non-Sabbath keepers. For the sake of the Sabbath truth, I am asking you to discontinue arguing with me and start contributing posts that will help others understand and embrace the Sabbath.
https://www.christianityboard.com/conversations/sabbath-thread.3838/#message-20949
I have been the only person who contributed positively to help you and others understand and embrace the Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD. This very sentence illustrates. I haven’t seen you do likewise.
I have been the only person who contributed positively to help understand and embrace the Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD on the ONLY basis, substance, advantage, whatever good and positive it is endowed with… I showed the Scriptures that they teach Christ’s Lordship of his Rest Day on one condition and truth and historical reality, THAT GOD RAISED UP CHRIST FROM THE DEAD “ON THE SABBATH”.
I haven’t seen you do likewise. Instead, you undermine this Bible fact and truth, and more than Sabbath opponents themselves, instead, attempt to sway people away from it.
So people only see two supposed to be Sabbath keepers in total disagreement rather than presenting a united front for the Sabbath or against Sunday and its proponents who rob the Sabbath of THIS, its ONLY honour and title, the Godly truth that God raised Christ from the dead ON IT ... not that anyone, you, or I, 'keep' it.
Therefore from my very first post I was adversarial instead of joining you in teaching people the Big Lie Sunday observance rests on.
So yes, I also have not stopped refuting your ‘arguments’ you even now continue with, knowing full well through years of experience that no one would like to discuss the TRUTH which “God thus concerning the Seventh Day spake…” PARTICULARLY spake, that “God the day The Seventh Day, from ALL, HIS, WORKS, RESTED” -- rested IN CHRIST -- rested in Christ IN RESURRECTION from the dead: “IN THE END AND END-PURPOSE OF THE SABBATH”. Matthew 28:1.
Then no matter how many proofs or how many times presented to people, I know THEY WILL NOT BELIEVE OR STAND IT THE BETTER THEY UNDERSTAND IT... like you for example.
But I will never and for nobody ‘~discontinue arguing~’ for TRUTH, common sense, honesty and SIMPLICITY in matters of The Christian Faith “according to the Scriptures”. So help me God, I will rather embrace Christ the Word of God's Law for me, because He, embraced me first.
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