A permanent structure

[VictoryinJesus]

not sure "division" is the best characterization, maybe "separation," but whatever. Setting things in order, ya. The Natural Order iow maybe

Instead of division; feed into?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"Eat at home" is a cryptic way to express this, which has nothing to do with literal food imo

Exactly. Well said!

 

[Stranger]

Agree. After living it and experiencing how one(me) can murmur against God after all He has done, those verses become relatable. I save passages daily in a note pad, when God is speaking, this
was from yesterday: Zechariah 9:14-16
[14] And the Lord shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord God shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south. [15] The Lord of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar. [16] And the Lord their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.

“as the four corners of the altar.”

You quoted : Exodus 25:12
[12] And thou shalt cast four rings of gold for it, and put them in the four corners thereof; and two rings shall be in the one side of it, and two rings in the other side of it.

? what are the four corners?

They are the corners of the Ark. They are where the rings were mounted which the staves were slid into to carry the Ark. (Ex. 25:12) As to their description of the Man, Jesus Christ, the closest I have seen is the Ark being identified as the heart or more literally the bowels. (Ps. 40:7-8) "...I delight to do thy will, O my god: yea, thy law is within my heart." This verse is attributed to Christ in (Heb. 10:8-9) As the law was placed in the Ark so Christ had the Law in His heart.

You should obtain the book "The Law Prophesied" by R.H.Mount,Jr.,M.E. He speaks on these very things and was an engineer and so is meticulous in this study of the Tabernacle. I doubt it is being printed today, but you can get an old copy on the internet.

P.S. And you should get any other books he has written.

Quantrill

 

[bbyrd009]

How can God see some of the things a corrupt heart does in secret, and not put a stop it? That is what gets me.

hmm...i know this is a hard thing to grasp, but God does not even see those things; we even have vv that verify this. I'm not a parent, but my guess is that a mother could explain here better than me.

Examined from another pov, nothing stays secret forever, or even for long, i don't think; but of course new children come of age every day, and do the same corrupt things believing they are keeping them secret, even after the father has learned the lesson, i guess. So you say (and i guess see) "not put a stop to it," but i suggest that that is a function of your vision, where you are focussing maybe. For if we were to examine a current case, we would surely see that it will resolve like past cases have, and that there is nothing done in secret that will not come to light after all.

and when this does not satisfy imo check your state of Codependency, and ask yourself why you are dwelling on these situations that are surely outside your control anyway? Are you bothered by some past sin that you have already rebounded from, and consider abhorrent now, etc? Did you ever confess this sin to those you committed it upon, or if that is not possible, to anyone? Iow is it possible that you feel you have gotten away with something, or not been forgiven of something?

or what sin that others are committing do you think God is not dealing with correctly? You mention child abuse, so i'm led to wonder if there is someone you have not forgiven yet? But there is no healing in examining others' sins, fwiw

 

[bbyrd009]

Lets say we do speak against it, and the evil behavior continues....I’m left begging for the power to stop what is done in secret.

i'd have to ask for an example here, if you speak against it, it can't be a secret right, at least not any longer; and i guess if you speak against it to CPS you'll even get quite the reaction. This next thing might sound harsh, but that is bc we live in a completely codependent society, and imagine that we are entitled to all kinds of things, but that kid can leave, too, any time he wants. Kids do it all the time. Gutzon Borglum left when he was like 5 years old. Imo there is a danger in believing you can help ppl who are not ready to accept the help, or would not help themselves; even children.

Not sure what situation you are perceiving here, but any first grader knows that all they gotta do is say something to their teacher, and they do not even have to go home that night, whereas even 20 years ago a runaway was usually automatically returned to the parents, so imo we have made great strides in this area

 

[bbyrd009]

Instead of division; feed into?

well, there are other perceptions there, 4 also happens to be the number of forces that define the universe, in physics these are like 4 pillars, 4 also happens to be the number of forces that define the universe, in physics these are like 4 pillars - Google Search

not unlike the story of one river branching into four, and comparisons have even been made there i guess. And fwiw most ppl do not carry it out this far, but once the four forces are understood, spiritual implications can also be drawn from them, you're prolly fam with Sol being invoked for Christ, and the moon as the Church, etc, or lives defined as "orbits," stuff like that. As a rule i wouldn't go there with Scripture, but "4" seems to point in that direction imo.

"4" is what appears to us, the natural order...actually the orig 1 plus 3 new "heads" (not branches), and i guess all of their names have "division" in them, but "distinctness" might be a better term, as they are all needed to produce an atom, if any one is missing an atom cannot exist, etc. So bc of the other meaning for "division," it can be a misleading term here i think, ya

 

[VictoryinJesus]

hmm...i know this is a hard thing to grasp, but God does not even see those things; we even have vv that verify this. I'm not a parent, but my guess is that a mother could explain here better than me.

As you could no doubt argue your belief that God doesn’t see, I could argue that He does see(with scripture). But I won’t. We will just disagree there. I would ask how God can use every thing for the good of those that love Him and are called...if He doesn’t see? See, I believe God is all sovereign and has a plan and is fully working that plan. That too might be where we differ.

why you are dwelling on these situations that are surely outside your control anyway?

Because it is done to those that I greatly love, so then what is done to them hurts me.

Are you bothered by some past sin that you have already rebounded from, a

I don’t like bullies. I hate arrogance. I hate pride. I hate when one is convinced by the world that they can take whatever they want from another and there will be no consequences.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

hmm...i know this is a hard thing to grasp, but God does not even see those things; we even have vv that verify this. I'm not a parent, but my guess is that a mother could explain here better than me.

I said I wouldn’t argue it but there is more. I’m just sharing. Believe what you want but I direct you to:

Matthew 26:66-68
[66] What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death. [67] Then did they spit in his face, and buffeted him; and others smote him with the palms of their hands, [68] Saying, Prophesy unto us, thou Christ, Who is he that smote thee?

“Prophesy unto us, thou Christ, Who is he that smote thee?”

First, THEY called Him Christ. In mockery most assuredly. But they asked “ Who smote thee?”

Mark 14:27-28
[27] And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered. [28] But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee.

‘I’ will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered. Satan would love to claim the work of Christ. Man would love to claim it. But Satan was never in control. As a great fish was prepared (by God) to swallow Jonah, also the crucifixion was prepared by God to swallow the Son so death and hell were defeated.

Deuteronomy 32:37-39
[37] And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted, [38] Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection. [39] See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

So if asked in mockery “Who sent you to live with a brutal step-Father that broke you down until all hope of ever being loved was gone?” I will say, “God did”. God did it and He is using it to the fullest.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

i'd have to ask for an example here, if you speak against it, it can't be a secret right, at least not any longer; and i guess if you speak against it to CPS you'll even get quite the reaction.

We have went to CPS so many times it is not even funny: About multiple children. And we are not the only one. Three others that we don’t even know personally have spoken out their concerns. You haven’t lived it, bbyrd009. I’ve seen the world cover up crap FASTER than a cat covers crap in a sandbox. I know who the real judge is and He sits in heaven. So many times I’ve pled my case before Him. With God I don’t have to produce the evidence of the abuse. But, then you are telling me God doesn’t see. How can a judge that doesn’t see and hear all the evidence and facts, Judge righteously?

 

[amadeus]

Not sure what situation you are perceiving here, but any first grader knows that all they gotta do is say something to their teacher, and they do not even have to go home that night, whereas even 20 years ago a runaway was usually automatically returned to the parents, so imo we have made great strides in this area

The presumption of course is that the teacher will be more trustworthy than the parents and this is all based on the presumption that the first grader is not lying about the whole thing. Hmmm?

Perhaps here it where trusting no man but God alone would come into the picture, or...?

 

[amadeus]

A permanent structure: our glorified bodies.
...............….

A temporary structure: a moveable tent.
A permanent structure: the temple of Solomon: a glorified body.

Consider the bones of you or me versus the bones of Jesus which were never broken at all. When the scriptures speak of the bones of carnal men in their fleshly ways how often are they broken or dissolved of melted? Even the so-called good thief on the cross had his bones broken, but they left the bones of Jesus alone. Were they not seen as permanent or unbreakable? What is it that bones do for a carnal body? What is it that bones then would do or should do for the Body of Christ? What are those bones anyway?

Our own bones need to be broken as we take on His form, His structure, His Way.

Give God the glory!

 

[Hidden In Him]

How and why I find these verses relatable: as God has brought me forth out of captivity and out of darkness, I find myself murmuring against where God has instructed to pitch the tent. Did God lead me out and open my eyes and ears, only to let my enemies destroy me? They seem so big and full of power and their hate an unstoppable force. When...with the same power God opened my eyes and ears with, He promises to: “The Lord your God which goeth before you, he shall fight for you, according to all that he did for you in Egypt before your eyes;”, but it doesn’t appear so. Not from this temporal view, it doesn’t. “[31] And in the wilderness, where thou hast seen how that the Lord thy God bare thee, as a man doth bear his son” as a Father bears a son(upon His shoulders). “Yet in this thing ye did not believe the Lord your God, [33] Who went in the way before you, (to search) you out a place to pitch your tents...” ...to search out a place to pitch your tents, tells me God controls where this tent is pitched. Same as Paul, in the body of the tent was led of God. So, why do I murmur, is what I find myself asking. When God is so very good.

It is not people, it is the things done that hurt others you love. When I say “ugly” things I mean; for instance scripture used to prey on young children(sexually). The preying and behavior is certainly ugly. It is knowing and seeing all to clearly the behavior is ugly and hating it and wanting the behavior to come to an end. That is just one example. How can God see some of the things a corrupt heart does in secret, and not put a stop it? That is what gets me. God sees the abuse and is the only one that can rise up against it. Lets say we do speak against it, and the evil behavior continues....I’m left begging for the power to stop what is done in secret. But there again, sometimes, the ONLY way is for God to bring it into the light and expose it.

I'm beginning to see more of what you were getting at.

Why He allows it is because people are not giving themselves to Him, so they are not under His protection. In the case of children, if they die before accountability they return to Him. In the case of those who are abused, does this cause them pain and trauma? Yes. Should it be dismissed as if it were not a grave sin? No. But He allows it because it can cause such little ones to know there is evil in this world, and turn away from it and turn to Him. It was only when I had nearly lost everything good in my life that I made the decision to turn to God. Until then, I might not have ever felt the need.

 

[bbyrd009]

As you could no doubt argue your belief that God doesn’t see, I could argue that He does see(with scripture).

yes, you make a good point, you surely could, so maybe we need to explore what this "see" really means, bc imo sometimes it obviously means "react to, act upon." i doubt God is blind to anything tbh, what is really being discussed is action of some sort, reaction maybe

I would ask how God can use every thing for the good of those that love Him and are called...if He doesn’t see?

well, my answer would be that "reap what you sow" takes care of that, but we might also ask Paul why he wrote "I will remember your sins no more."

See, I believe God is all sovereign and has a plan and is fully working that plan. That too might be where we differ.

hmm, i believe that too, but i would ask again why, if you believe this, do you feel like God is...not working some part of the plan right, or something?

 

[bbyrd009]

Because it is done to those that I greatly love, so then what is done to them hurts me.

ok well obv i am not privvy to the particulars--and i won't lie, i am still feeling some codependence here; which does not necessarily mean "bad thing" ok--but i would ask why the traditional avenues are inadequate first, and then also suggest that under grace you are certainly not bound by them if in fact they are (inadequate). Of course things will get uglier before they get prettier in any case prolly, and let me at least suggest that if you see something evil going on then allies who see the same thing should not be too hard to come by? So maybe seeking the backing of peers might be the way to go there

I don’t like bullies. I hate arrogance. I hate pride. I hate when one is convinced by the world that they can take whatever they want from another and there will be no consequences.

the consequences come later though, although i know that maybe seems inadequate to the moment. God can take care of them, too, just fine. i might suggest that kids are experts at manipulation, and often don't realize the consequences of telling what to them are merely small embellishments to get what they want, but i don't know if that is even pertinent or not

 

[bbyrd009]

So if asked in mockery “Who sent you to live with a brutal step-Father that broke you down until all hope of ever being loved was gone?” I will say, “God did”. God did it and He is using it to the fullest.

yet you are obviously loved here, so it seems that all that remains is for you to forgive him, and possibly the human sender, dunno.

before he kills you, i mean

 

[bbyrd009]

See, I believe God is all sovereign and has a plan and is fully working that plan.

God did it and He is using it to the fullest.

yup

 

[bbyrd009]

But, then you are telling me God doesn’t see.

well hopefully you get that i meant "not with two eyes, only with one."

 

[bbyrd009]

How can a judge that doesn’t see and hear all the evidence and facts, Judge righteously?

i guess by putting in place "you reap what you sow" and trusting in it. Regardless of the state of CPS where you are--which def does not sound like the CPS i'm fam with, and i have lived it--you gotta believe that God has a handle on the situation. But really this is about you imo

 

[bbyrd009]

The presumption of course is that the teacher will be more trustworthy than the parents and this is all based on the presumption that the first grader is not lying about the whole thing. Hmmm?

my experience was that you cannot lie to them, or it will be revealed in one of the assessments. I guess CPS is diff in every state, my experience was with Cali CPS, and lemme tell you stories about them sound like they are coming from a diff planet lol

 

[VictoryinJesus]

yes, you make a good point, you surely could, so maybe we need to explore what this "see" really means, bc imo sometimes it obviously means "react to, act upon." i doubt God is blind to anything tbh, what is really being discussed is action of some sort, reaction maybe
well, my answer would be that "reap what you sow" takes care of that, but we might also ask Paul why he wrote "I will remember your sins no more."
hmm, i believe that too, but i would ask again why, if you believe this, do you feel like God is...not working some part of the plan right, or something?

I agree there is a contradiction, and you are right. So, basically, I trust and believe God is sovereign until it comes to, not my will but His will be done.

Thank you.