A permanent structure

[Helen]

hmm...i know this is a hard thing to grasp, but God does not even see those things; we even have vv that verify this. I'm not a parent, but my guess is that a mother could explain here better than me.

Examined from another pov, nothing stays secret forever, or even for long, i don't think; but of course new children come of age every day, and do the same corrupt things believing they are keeping them secret, even after the father has learned the lesson, i guess. So you say (and i guess see) "not put a stop to it," but i suggest that that is a function of your vision, where you are focussing maybe. For if we were to examine a current case, we would surely see that it will resolve like past cases have, and that there is nothing done in secret that will not come to light after all.

and when this does not satisfy imo check your state of Codependency, and ask yourself why you are dwelling on these situations that are surely outside your control anyway? Are you bothered by some past sin that you have already rebounded from, and consider abhorrent now, etc? Did you ever confess this sin to those you committed it upon, or if that is not possible, to anyone? Iow is it possible that you feel you have gotten away with something, or not been forgiven of something?

or what sin that others are committing do you think God is not dealing with correctly? You mention child abuse, so i'm led to wonder if there is someone you have not forgiven yet? But there is no healing in examining others' sins, fwiw

I have to say Amen to that...because I almost wrote the very same yesterday!!

1) God sent His Church...in His stead, and with His authority. So when we begin to judge God for not doing this that and the other...we should look right back at ourselves...We are the reason that the world is not a better place...not God.

As the saying goes.
"We have identified the enemy, and the enemy ....is us"

 

[amadeus]

my experience was that you cannot lie to them, or it will be revealed in one of the assessments. I guess CPS is diff in every state, my experience was with Cali CPS, and lemme tell you stories about them sound like they are coming from a diff planet lol

My point was not that the system men have put into place never works. Undoubtedly it sometimes does, but I am wanting to rely on a system that always works. It is God's plan that always does things right. The problem on the one hand is understanding God's plan and on the other hand if and when it is understood to be able to do our part correctly in that plan.

If we understand why Jesus' bones were not broken perhaps we are getting at least an inkling of what is needed. It goes back to VIJ's question. Why the temporary tent and then the more permanent temple of Solomon? Both I see as shadows of the reality in and of the Body of Christ. The first was a very fragile thing supported by the framework and from that they moved to a much sturdier thing with solid walls not easily undone. When the real thing [the Body of Christ] is complete, it will have no weak points all. It will have no flaws at all.

"That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." Eph 5:27

The Head is ready, but the rest of the Body is it would seem awaits the point at which all of the parts are "fitly joined together".

 

[Helen]

the consequences come later though, although i know that maybe seems inadequate to the moment. God can take care of them, too, just fine. i might suggest that kids are experts at manipulation, and often don't realize the consequences of telling what to them are merely small embellishments to get what they want, but i don't know if that is even pertinent or not

I almost said the same thing here too.

We can get so bogged down with the here and now...but the true spiritual position is that God is not "in time" as we are.
We look now, and want to 'see' Him do something...He is outside of time, and He sees it "all done". All well, all happy etc...

When we think with the carnal mind we fall into the slippy pit...which does nothing but suck us ever further downward. We cannot have peace when we fret about worldly happening.

When the word says in Philippians 4 "be fretful about NOTHING"...it is good advice. 6 "Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Wise words which protects our heart and mind from the negative words of the Enemy...who's they are, for they sure are not coming to us from God Himself!

Good post Mark.

 

[Helen]

“Who sent you to live with a brutal step-Father that broke you down until all hope of ever being loved was gone?” I will say, “God did”. God did it and He is using it to the fullest.

I cannot agree here.
There is one Enemy of our souls...after us from birth....if he can't kill us in the womb he then dogs our steps through life.

God obviously allowed it, He did not do it.
Very obviously the Enemy will try to convince people that God wasn't watching over them and He did it. That is always Satan's plan, and it has been so from the Garden...when the serpent was telling Eve that it was God who was holding some wisdom back from her, she fell for it hook, line and sinker!!!
Sabotaging God's very character as he is always trying to do and is again right here.

Bless you, but you have your eye in the wrong place and on the wrong person.
Hugs....Helen

 

[Helen]

When our own thoughts are set aside, we will be completely in the middle of the straight and narrow path . A place of freedom and peace.
So often when we suffer it is our self-life , our self nature that causes that pain.

When we are dead we don't suffer. When we are completely dead to the self-nature , we no long feel the pain.
We often have to endure the aches and pains of our own body from time to time….and we do the same in the Spirit.

The Cross-life is, and will be before us all the way home…the cross is painful but it is the place of deep lasting peace.

The pain of resisting the cross-life is much more painful to live with.
Gods soothing hand is always there….. whenever we get still enough.

 

[Stranger]

I cannot agree here.
There is one Enemy of our souls...after us from birth....if he can't kill us in the womb he then dogs our steps through life.

God obviously allowed it, He did not do it.
Very obviously the Enemy will try to convince people that God wasn't watching over them and He did it. That is always Satan's plan, and it has been so from the Garden...when the serpent was telling Eve that it was God who was holding some wisdom back from her, she fell for it hook, line and sinker!!!
Sabotaging God's very character as he is always trying to do and is again right here.

Bless you, but you have your eye in the wrong place and on the wrong person.
Hugs....Helen

Consider this. What is the difference in 'God allowing it' and 'God doing it'?

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I cannot agree here.
There is one Enemy of our souls...after us from birth....if he can't kill us in the womb he then dogs our steps through life.

God obviously allowed it, He did not do it.
Very obviously the Enemy will try to convince people that God wasn't watching over them and He did it. That is always Satan's plan, and it has been so from the Garden...when the serpent was telling Eve that it was God who was holding some wisdom back from her, she fell for it hook, line and sinker!!!
Sabotaging God's very character as he is always trying to do and is again right here.

Bless you, but you have your eye in the wrong place and on the wrong person.
Hugs....Helen

Then I would ask you Who smote the shepherd? Who was in control of the crucifixion? It wasn’t Satan like he would like to claim. Or what about: Job 12:15-16 “Behold, he withholdeth the waters, and they dry up: also he sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth. [16] With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.”

God’s character is always good. I’m not implying it is not. I struggle, yes. ByGrace, you may be completely right. You say I am focused in the wrong place but, for me, I try to not give Satan the credit for what the Potter has done. Maybe that is wrong but it is where I am at.

Romans 9:20-21
[20] Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it , Why hast thou made me thus?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

They are the corners of the Ark. They are where the rings were mounted which the staves were slid into to carry the Ark. (Ex. 25:12) As to their description of the Man, Jesus Christ, the closest I have seen is the Ark being identified as the heart or more literally the bowels. (Ps. 40:7-8) "...I delight to do thy will, O my god: yea, thy law is within my heart." This verse is attributed to Christ in (Heb. 10:8-9) As the law was placed in the Ark so Christ had the Law in His heart.

You should obtain the book "The Law Prophesied" by R.H.Mount,Jr.,M.E. He speaks on these very things and was an engineer and so is meticulous in this study of the Tabernacle. I doubt it is being printed today, but you can get an old copy on the internet.

P.S. And you should get any other books he has written.

Quantrill

Makes me think of: Psalm 22:14-16
[14] I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. [15] My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death. [16] For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

 

[Helen]

@VictoryinJesus Not intending to offend here.
As I read scripture I don't see God or Satan killing Jesus on the cross...He laid down His own life.
He chose this way back before the foundation of the world.

We will just have to see things different her...no worries.

Bless you...Helen

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus Not intending to offend here.
As I read scripture I don't see God or Satan killing Jesus on the cross...He laid down His own life.
He chose this way back before the foundation of the world.

We will just have to see things different her...no worries.

Bless you...Helen

Not offended at all. Agree to disagree. You are right in that He laid down His life.

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus did not die for your sins as radical as the concept might read to anyone.
Certainly not in the way the Jesus Cults suggest.
Pick up your cross and follow Christ imo

"We have identified the enemy, and the enemy ....is us"

"If my people, who are called by My Name" tells me that God allows a whole nation to reap based upon what the seekers in the nation sow; not the lost iow. This might seem kind of radical or unfair maybe, but there is a fair amount of evidence for this imo, "how about if i can find ten? how about five?" etc

 

[bbyrd009]

My point was not that the system men have put into place never works. Undoubtedly it sometimes does, but I am wanting to rely on a system that always works. It is God's plan that always does things right. The problem on the one hand is understanding God's plan and on the other hand if and when it is understood to be able to do our part correctly in that plan.

children are a particularly touchy area though, bc it is hard to comprehend that it is God's will that children even die sometimes. We codependently wish to make everything right for them and extend their lives, not realizing that God does them a favor by removing them from condemnation while also revealing sin, among other things i guess.

not that i want to be misunderstood here, imo ViJ had the childhood she did quite possibly so that she would become an advocate for abused children, and i think that's great. Sounds like there is also a personal journey involved that is maybe not complete yet, maybe the emotions are still driving a little, but that is the same marriage that we are all working out i guess, and you gotta have both.

An analogy might be that it is hard to comprehend how a forest fire can be a good thing, and the natural first reaction is to try and put the fire out.

 

[amadeus]

Then I would ask you Who smote the shepherd? Who was in control of the crucifixion? It wasn’t Satan like he would like to claim. Or what about: Job 12:15-16 “Behold, he withholdeth the waters, and they dry up: also he sendeth them out, and they overturn the earth. [16] With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.”

God’s character is always good. I’m not implying it is not. I struggle, yes. ByGrace, you may be completely right. You say I am focused in the wrong place but, for me, I try to not give Satan the credit for what the Potter has done. Maybe that is wrong but it is where I am at.

Romans 9:20-21
[20] Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it , Why hast thou made me thus?

Our problem is that we do not really completely understand God and all of His plan. Those who really are believers are growing, but how much do we still not yet know? The answer is certainly different for different people... but the following verses still apply to us whenever we simply do not understand:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

John the Baptist put it like this:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

 

[bbyrd009]

Then I would ask you Who smote the shepherd?

i shouted out "Who killed the Kennedys?"
when after all
it was you and me

 

[bbyrd009]

kinda hard to add up maybe at first, but we are the sanhedrin now, or at least those we empower are. We are the crumbling empire of Israel, 3 ad. The Sadducees and Pharisees are us, even though Scripture artfully directs our associations with those in it to other persons, as we like to imagine. All of the elements are in place; Rome, the unseen hand, directing a proxy government made up of usurpers (is there even a single Prot on the Supreme Court yet?), and the ppl in turmoil and divided into a million splinters, as the Rothch...um, the unseen hand likes it

 

[amadeus]

children are a particularly touchy area though, bc it is hard to comprehend that it is God's will that children even die sometimes. We codependently wish to make everything right for them and extend their lives, not realizing that God does them a favor by removing them from condemnation while also revealing sin, among other things i guess.

Oh yes! I have never lost my own child that I knew and loved but I have through the years known many people who have. On this forum, consider the case of our friend and brother @Frank Lee .

What is God's will for a situation? When it is to remove someone we love dearly, it may not even be something for which we can properly pray. This is one reason I see that God still allows people to pray to Him in an unknown tongue. Sometimes we cannot in our own mind and heart say what needs to be said... pray what needs to be prayed. "...nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

not that i want to be misunderstood here, imo ViJ had the childhood she did quite possibly so that she would become an advocate for abused children, and i think that's great. Sounds like there is also a personal journey involved that is maybe not complete yet, maybe the emotions are still driving a little, but that is the same marriage that we are all working out i guess, and you gotta have both.

God knows our pain and He knows what is needed for that pain. This is why if we can really surrender to Him, He will solve our problems even though others looking on may be blind to the solution that we have been given.

An analogy might be that it is hard to comprehend how a forest fire can be a good thing, and the natural first reaction is to try and put the fire out.

That brings back memories to this old fellow. As a child I loved Smoky the Bear and the little song they used to sing on the commercial is never forgotten even if they have changed the picture because of what they have learned. This is an old one but not precisely as I learned it:

 

[GUANO]

The Movable Tabernacle, the Temple, the implements, the rites, rituals, holy days, and other observances are inspired and prophetic in nature and represent supernatural principles. Many of the rites and rituals are highly "mysterious" as they are not really explained in scripture. I don't think the priests themselves really knew what it was all about. On the Day of Atonement for example we have this ritual concerning "Azazel" that has been debated over for literally thousands of years now. The temple and the rites and rituals themselves represent the spirit of "The Word" or "Logos"---It also represents Jesus Christ---who is Logos. It's really quite astonishing.

The purpose of the rituals themselves appear to be a) "to bring it about" and b) to serve as proof

 

[Helen]

Amen ...great post. @GUANO

 

[quietthinker]

The Movable Tabernacle, the Temple, the implements, the rites, rituals, holy days, and other observances are inspired and prophetic in nature and represent supernatural principles. Many of the rites and rituals are highly "mysterious" as they are not really explained in scripture. I don't think the priests themselves really knew what it was all about. On the Day of Atonement for example we have this ritual concerning "Azazel" that has been debated over for literally thousands of years now. The temple and the rites and rituals themselves represent the spirit of "The Word" or "Logos"---It also represents Jesus Christ---who is Logos. It's really quite astonishing.

The purpose of the rituals themselves appear to be a) "to bring it about" and b) to serve as proof

God gave The Movable Tabernacle, the Temple, the implements, the rites, rituals, holy days, and other observances are inspired and prophetic in nature for the purpose of being understood otherwise there would be no sense in giving them.
Now whether the Hebrews understood them or whether we understand them or not is another matter altogether.
The primary factor that enables understanding or the lack of it is ones paradigm. If we choose to hold onto a paradigm that is incompatible with Gods purposes we will remain in ignorance dodging and weaving Gods word to somehow fit into what we have imagined.

Example; the Hebrews were captive 400 yrs in Egypt. God brought them out with a great hand, they saw it and experienced it with their own eyes. The plagues, the parting of the Red Sea, They heard Gods voice from Sinai and saw and felt the mountain shaking and burning yet a few weeks later they made a golden calf and worshipped it. Why?? because they refused to let go of the paradigm that Egypt had impregnated them with.
,
They had dim vision and weak or no faith because of the paradigm they refused to let go of but God led them anyway. The crunch came when it was time to cross over into the promised land. That generation refused Gods directive and died in the desert .
This account is for our benefit so that we today do not fail because of the same factors.

We do not understand because we have vested interests (pride, laziness, status, sin) in a paradigm that is incompatible to understanding, yet God leads us in spite of ourselves in the hope that we will come around to his ways.

Do we really think that we will cross over into the promised land when the time comes all the while having Gods Wisdom and direction pushed aside and instead constructed our own?

When a computer requires upgrading (paradigm) because the programs no longer work and it is not upgraded how long do you think it will be functional?

All of God's instructions are given for the purpose of working by being understood, particularly in these last days.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

well hopefully you get that i meant "not with two eyes, only with one."

You said “not with two eyes, only with one.” Do you mean as: Psalm 139:8-12
[8] If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there . [9] If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; [10] Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. [11] If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. [12] Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee .

Luke 11:34-35
[34] The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness. [35] Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.

It makes sense!
There is no darkness in God.