Mother Teresa

[Rollo Tamasi]

It blows my mind how many people actually think "The New Jerusalem" is some sort of brick & mortar city complex Christians have to live inside.

You mean it's not?

 

[Willie T]

The waiting place was in Luke 16...The Rich Man and Lazarus.
Didn't Jesus go there to free the prisoners?
Didn't He tear open the veil of the temple when He died on the cross?
Doesn't Paul say that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord?
And isn't the New Jerusalem the New Earth after the end of the world?

Well, if you think that no one is surprised at their fate when "The Judgement" comes, then you can imagine the PARABLE of Lazarus and the Rich Man as being real. (None of the people in the other PARABLE of The Sheep & Goats should have been surprised at their destination, in that case) After all, if you look across some gulf and see another guy being pampered, while you are burning in torment, you JUST MIGHT get the idea that the two of you are eventually going to different places. (Remember that the Bible tells us that Jesus ALWAYS spoke to the people in PARABLES... meaning that He never spoke to them in anything BUT parables.)

I think when Jesus told the thief on the cross that "THIS DAY, you will be with me in PARADISE", He meant that at the instant of death, TIME WOULD CEASE TO BE, and the thief would one day wake up (whenever that might happen) in a Heavenly state and form with Jesus.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Well, if you think that no one is surprised at their fate when "The Judgement" comes, then you can imagine the PARABLE of Lazarus and the Rich Man as being real. (None of the people in the other PARABLE of The Sheep & Goats should have been surprised at their destination, in that case) After all, if you look across some gulf and see another guy being pampered, while you are burning in torment, you JUST MIGHT get the idea that the two of you are eventually going to different places. (Remember that the Bible tells us that Jesus ALWAYS spoke to the people in PARABLES... meaning that He never spoke to them in anything BUT parables.)

I think when Jesus told the thief on the cross that "THIS DAY, you will be with me in PARADISE", He meant that at the instant of death, TIME WOULD CEASE TO BE, and the thief would one day wake up (whenever that might happen) in a Heavenly state and form with Jesus.

The thief on the cross wasn't a parable.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

First, the above does not speak to what we were talking about.

I had assumed that the question you had asked was in regards to what I had posted earlier.

You said we lose our salvation every time we sin. The above doen't reply to that. In fact, it is not catholic doctrine...

Just to be clear, I am not saying that and neither is the Catholic catechism that I am referring to. I am saying that the Catholic catechism is saying that believers are not saved yet for all the quotes I have provided. After being incorporated into the Church and doing all the seven sacraments, if a Catholic does not persevere in charity ( is that giving money to the Church or love or both ? ) he is not saved.

Second, in your last paragraph you speak about eternal security as if the CC believed in it. It does NOT. You just contradicted yourself when you said we lose it every time we sin.

I wish you would quote me as saying it in that wise. Not sure how you got that when I was posting about how the Catholic catechism is saying that a Catholic is not saved yet when I am saying that they are saved in spite of laboring in unbelief or living in sin, albeit, they are at risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes.. unless they repent.

What you're saying is really confusing.

Are you Catholic?

Nope. Not a Catholic.

I reckon I would be confusing if you can't see what the Catholic catechism is saying about how you are not saved yet. I can agree that the Catholic catechism is not the simplicity of the gospel. The Catholic Catechism being convoluted as it is, it is hard to speak simply from it, because it has nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Tell me how all that the CC says is necessary for salvation is found anywhere in the N.T. in how they present the gospel to those who would hear and believe in order to be saved at the moment they believed in Him?

 

[Helen]

It blows my mind how many people actually think "The New Jerusalem" is some sort of brick & mortar city complex Christians have to live inside.

Willie it blows my mind that so many people believe so much of the word is a physical thing. It makes one wonder how they literalise what Ezekiel saw!!
Maybe John should have written like Ezekiel did , and ever other verse he should have said " the appearance of " showing that it is a spirit book which is spiritually understood. :)
Ez 1.
" And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.
Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.
And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.
And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.
And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.
Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.

As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.

The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.

As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.
And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.
Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.

And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.

As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face. "

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Well Willie T. and ByGrace and Ebb Tide and whoever else, it blows my mind about everything.
I don'y know if anyone believes in the truth I know or not.

 

[Helen]

The waiting place was in Luke 16...The Rich Man and Lazarus.
Didn't Jesus go there to free the prisoners?
Didn't He tear open the veil of the temple when He died on the cross?
Doesn't Paul say that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord?
And isn't the New Jerusalem the New Earth after the end of the world?

Oh yes for sure ..I do agree, Paul did say "Absent from the body, present with the Lord.." What he didn't say was " Absent from the body mean happy in heaven." :)

Never mind...we wont argue over it. x

 

[Willie T]

Yes. Isn't the New Jerusalem coming at the end of the world?
I don't know too much about the end times, but there's a heaven in between.
The New Jerusalem is when we get our glorified bodies.
I think.

As I have said many times, I think that although some of the verses toward the end of Revelation speak to "The End of Time", most of that book speaks words of encouragement to terrified Christians in seven cities existing in that day and age in old Turkey. And it was describing to them the beauty of the, then and real, Heavenly existence of the church that Jesus came to bring to Himself. The "New Jerusalem" is the essence of that very real and Spiritually existing church.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Seems another thread is needed for New Jerusalem.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

God is coming to judge His House first at the pre great tribulation rapture where He will receive those abiding in Him as His disciples as vessels unto honor in His House.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

So in comparing Revelation 21:1-3 with John 14:1-3, we see the result of the Bridegroom receiving the abiding bride of Christ in having a place in the city of God so that the brides of that city will come down at the end of the great tribulation for the millennium reign of Christ.

While those that have His seal but did not depart from iniquity, will be left behind as castaways to become vessels unto dishonor in His House. He is faithful in the keeping of the souls of those saints left behind that will suffer the fire coming on the earth and as a result, the coming great tribulation.

That means that those saints left behind at the pre great trib rapture, will not be meeting Christ in the air because they are resurrected at the end of the great tribulation after the defeat of Satan and the world's armies wherein Satan has been placed in the pit for a thousand years.

There is a celestial inheritance wherein the firstfruits of the resurrection will be like the angels that never die as vessels unto honor in His House.

There is a glorified terrestrial inheritance involving the vessels unto dishonor in His House that will be resurrected with not having the power of the second death being over them as they will marry and raise the next generation coming out of the millennium reign of Christ as not living in the city, but representing that Holy City and Jesus Christ as placed all over the world wherever they are living at with their families.

The vessels of dishonor that are in His House will testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name; John 1:12-13

So there is a celestial inheritance awaiting abiding believers in Christ that trust Him as their Good Shepherd to help them lay aside every weight & sin in running that race to be received by Him as the Bridegroom when He comes. That is the loss besides the loss of crowns that awaits unrepentant saints and former believers if they remain as they are when the Bridegroom comes.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Just so no one take those verses above as meaning loss of salvation; it is his part in the holy city that is being taken out, not his name in the Book of Life. We have this assurance in the same Book of Revelation...

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

I believe after each warning and exhortation to the seven churches at Revelation, when it begins with "He that overcometh", that is really referring to Jesus Christ having to overcome for those unrepentant saints that did not depart from iniquity as the promise in that verse in the bold underlined is a double negative wherein He will never blot out any body's name out of the book of life.

But one can lose their inheritance in the city of God as a vessel unto honor in His House unless they repent with His help as our Good Shepherd before He comes as the Bridegroom for the abiding bride of Christ. So do go before that throne of grace for help in trusting Him in getting you ready today.

 

[Nancy]

JesusIsFaithful said:
"When it comes to discerning believers by Him if they are abiding in Him or not, it will have to be more than just discerning them by their outward good deeds spoken of in general by others."
I suppose I should have said : 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Matthew 7:16-20.

"Cosby needed the Saviour just as much as any one of us do."

There is not a one who does not need Jesus.

"Just because someone profess Him and do wonderful works in His name, does not mean they are not workers of iniquity..."

This is where true discernment comes in. I have not watched television in many decades, and if I were to, there would only be one or two televangelists I could stomach.

"...their questionable walk in the Lord and exalt them to a an approved position just because the media and the world does."

Personally, I exalt God only. Christians should encourage, edify and exhort one another through His Holy Spirit by which we exhibit the love that Jesus commands us. And well, you already know how I feel about the media, lol. God bless,
-nancy

 

[Enoch111]

It blows my mind how many people actually think "The New Jerusalem" is some sort of brick & mortar city complex Christians have to live inside.

Well Willie, since the New Jerusalem is described as an actual city (built of heavenly jewels and gold, not bricks and mortar) then you must either believe God or disbelieve Him. Abraham believed God, and looked for a city which has foundations, whose Builder and Maker is God (Heb 11:10). So you are in a way mocking God and Abraham.

As to "Christians HAVE TO live inside" that is a total misunderstanding. It will be THE PRIVILEGE of Christians to call this their eternal home. And it is so far superior to any mansion on earth, that no man could describe it. At present, every saint of God who has passed on is within the New Jerusalem. Very much awake and very much alive in the presence of God and Christ.

We dare not try to describe the glorious future of the saints in the New Jerusalem, for this reason: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. (1 Cor 2:9)

As to Mother Teresa, only God knows her heart and only God and Christ can say whether she is in Heaven.

 

[Willie T]

Humm, the square mile footprint of the New Jerusalem = less than 2M.
The square mile footprint of the USA is about 3.797M
All the saints who ever lived on the entire Earth for thousands and thousands of years are going to be crammed into an area about 5/8 of the size of America?

The land mass of the world is about 57.5 M. What a waste of the rest of the new Earth.

 

[Helen]

Humm, the square mile footprint of the New Jerusalem = less than 2M.
The square mile footprint of the USA is about 3.797M
All the saints who ever lived on the entire Earth for thousands and thousands of years are going to be crammed into an area about 5/8 of the size of America?

The land mass of the world is about 57.5 M. What a waste of the rest of the new Earth.

The New Jerusalem, is as wide, and as high, as it is long—a perfect cube (Revelation 21:15–17). :)

 

[Helen]

Humm, the square mile footprint of the New Jerusalem = less than 2M.
The square mile footprint of the USA is about 3.797M
All the saints who ever lived on the entire Earth for thousands and thousands of years are going to be crammed into an area about 5/8 of the size of America?

The land mass of the world is about 57.5 M. What a waste of the rest of the new Earth.

The New Jerusalem, is as wide, and as high, as it is long—a perfect cube (Revelation 21:15–17).
With curve of the earth taken into consideration...it would tipple over I would think. :)

 

[Willie T]

The New Jerusalem, is as wide, and as high, as it is long—a perfect cube (Revelation 21:15–17).
With curve of the earth taken into consideration...it would tipple over I would think. :)

Well, it would certainly put the top of the wall way into outer space... which begins at about 62 miles above sea level. (Almost 1,400 miles into space.)

 

[Helen]

Well, it would certainly put the top of the wall way into outer space... which begins at about 62 miles above sea level. (Almost 1,400 miles into space.)

Yep...but none of them will change their minds about it all being literal.
Much too brain washed to "think on these things".

 

[Willie T]

Yep...but none of them will change their minds about it all being literal.
Much too brain washed to "think on these things".

Yeah! I mean, REALLY.... Have you ever given any thought to walking around all day on hard, hot streets of gold.... Rather than walking on lush grass and beautiful beach sand as God actually intended us to do?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The New Jerusalem, is as wide, and as high, as it is long—a perfect cube (Revelation 21:15–17).
With curve of the earth taken into consideration...it would tipple over I would think. :)

The Earth is flat.
This proves it.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Yeah! I mean, REALLY.... Have you ever given any thought to walking around all day on hard, hot streets of gold.... Rather than walking on lush grass and beautiful beach sand as God actually intended us to do?

Sounds like you'd rather be somewhere else.
Answer this; why is it so high?
There's definitely something about it we don't understand.
And since we don't understand what our new bodies will be like, it'll take a science fiction writer to make sense of it all.

 

[Willie T]

Sounds like you'd rather be somewhere else.
Answer this; why is it so high?
There's definitely something about it we don't understand.
And since we don't understand what our new bodies will be like, it'll take a science fiction writer to make sense of it all.

I hope he would tell us who the 12 gates are keeping out...… OR, are they keeping US locked in? (But, aren't they "always open?" I wonder why even mention them?) And, why are there "12"? Could it be that "the 12" (the Apostles) were the initial ways first leading into the "church", which the "city" represents?