Baptism ?

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Marymog

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Think of it this way Mary.

I believe they were saved """through""" the water, not "by" the water as you have indicated. Noah and his family were IN THE ARK and there was not a drop of water that touched them. So who is teaching you all this mis-information you are putting down?

1 Peter 3:20-22
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Look up the word THROUGH. (he threw the ball through the window)

21 There is also an antitype which now saves us — baptism(not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
NKJV
Hi,

I looked up the word “through” and one of the definitions is: “by means of”.

...... eight souls, were saved “by means of” water.....

I think I get what your saying. Water, poured over the head or by immersion of the body, is used to save a person in a Christian baptism. No water touched the eight in the Ark therefore the water didn’t save them, the Ark saved them.

I think the key word you are overlooking is “antitype”. Look up the definition of that word and I think it will all make sense how water saved Noah and his family and now it is being used to save us....Just like scripture says.

Peter referenced Noah and his family being saved by means of water. Now we we are saved thru baptism which is done with water. When Jesus was baptized notice WATER and SPIRIT (Matthew 3:16). During Pentecost Peter said, Repent and be baptized (water).....and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.....notice water and Spirit. Genesis 1:1-2....water and Spirit. Moses and the Israelites being saved by water with the help of a Spirit (angel of GOD).

MARY
 

epostle1

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Hello Mary,
My $.02:
What is hidden in the OT is revealed in the NT.
The floodwaters in Genesis was cleansing the earth from evil, a foreshadow of baptismal waters.
Pharaoh's army was destroyed with water after Moses parted the Red Sea, another foreshadow of baptismal waters.
In both situations, water as a cleansing agent was used to save the lives of God's people.
 
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H. Richard

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Hi,

I looked up the word “through” and one of the definitions is: “by means of”.

...... eight souls, were saved “by means of” water.....

I think I get what your saying. Water, poured over the head or by immersion of the body, is used to save a person in a Christian baptism. No water touched the eight in the Ark therefore the water didn’t save them, the Ark saved them.

I think the key word you are overlooking is “antitype”. Look up the definition of that word and I think it will all make sense how water saved Noah and his family and now it is being used to save us....Just like scripture says.

Peter referenced Noah and his family being saved by means of water. Now we we are saved thru baptism which is done with water. When Jesus was baptized notice WATER and SPIRIT (Matthew 3:16). During Pentecost Peter said, Repent and be baptized (water).....and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.....notice water and Spirit. Genesis 1:1-2....water and Spirit. Moses and the Israelites being saved by water with the help of a Spirit (angel of GOD).

MARY
***

Luke 12:49-50
49 "I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!
NKJV

QUESTION?? Was Jesus talking about a water baptism???
 

H. Richard

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Hi,

I looked up the word “through” and one of the definitions is: “by means of”.

...... eight souls, were saved “by means of” water.....

I think I get what your saying. Water, poured over the head or by immersion of the body, is used to save a person in a Christian baptism. No water touched the eight in the Ark therefore the water didn’t save them, the Ark saved them.

I think the key word you are overlooking is “antitype”. Look up the definition of that word and I think it will all make sense how water saved Noah and his family and now it is being used to save us....Just like scripture says.

Peter referenced Noah and his family being saved by means of water. Now we we are saved thru baptism which is done with water. When Jesus was baptized notice WATER and SPIRIT (Matthew 3:16). During Pentecost Peter said, Repent and be baptized (water).....and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.....notice water and Spirit. Genesis 1:1-2....water and Spirit. Moses and the Israelites being saved by water with the help of a Spirit (angel of GOD).

MARY

Very good Mary but there are more than one meaning and you have just given your choice of the word "THROUGHT".

1. in one side and out the other
2. from end to end
3. between the parts of
4. by way of
5. from beginning to the end
6. by means of

Therefore "context" determines the use of the word. In context we see that the ARK carried the those inside from dry land to dry land. It was the ARK that saved them. Not the water. The Ark represents those ""IN CHRIST"". All that are IN CHRIST are carried over their sins and their sins can not touch them. Why, because they are in Christ by an operation of the Holy Spirit.

To be outside of the Ark is death. To be outside of Christ is death.

I see this spiritually. Not physically.
 
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H. Richard

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It was said; "I think the key word you are overlooking is “antitype”. Look up the definition of that word and I think it will all make sense how water saved Noah and his family and now it is being used to save us....Just like scripture says".

antitype.

1. The person or thing represented, or foreshhadowed by an earlier type or symbol
2. an opposite type ----- to proclaim that it was the water that saved them is to say it is exactly the same as Noah, not an antitype.

1 Peter 3:20-22
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

21 There is also an antitype which now saves us — {{{{{] baptism(not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
NKJV

I do not see the word "water" in verse 21 above. What I see is that Peter is saying that a person is submerged (BURIED) in Christ by acknowledging He is the Christ.

baptism = an experience for the first time

Jesus was baptized on the cross and it had nothing to do with water.
Luke 12:49-50
49 "I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!
NKJV
 

Enoch111

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In both situations, water as a cleansing agent was used to save the lives of God's people.
Or was it used to destroy the wicked?

Because water cannot wash away sins, God has provided the blood of Christ. And those who are blood bought and blood washed are baptized to signify (and understand) that their old lives are dead and buried.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Titus 3:5 and Eph 5:26 are what Christ did to save us, not something we did - read the context verses. And, of course, neither has anything to do with born again, the ticket for Jews to enter their earthly Kingdom. Born again has nothing to do with salvation. A few minutes ago I asked my son and he thinks born again is the resurrection of the dry bones and I'm starting to think he is right. Christ knew that no one during His ministry would be alive to enter the Kingdom and that everyone that entered would have to be born again, i.e., resurrected.


During this 2000 year Gentile period of Pure Grace, all water baptism does is get you wet. There are zero works for us to do for our salvation, according to Eph 2:8-9, including water Baptism. Salvation is a 100% pure gift. None of the other verses you quoted (from Lk, Rom, Mk, Ac, 1Pe, Jam) apply directly to us today, unless they are repeated in Paul's 7 post-Acts books. They're from a time past that was all Israel/ We're not Israel. We're Gentiles. The differences in scripture between the 2 are countless.

That's what rightly divide (correctly cut) God's word means 2Tim 2:15. We must cut it just once in a place where it's all Israel on one side of the cut and all Gentile on the other side. The only place in the Bible where you can do that is the very end of Acts. Once we cut it, we have Paul's 7 post-Acts books, all for Gentiles, and 59 books which are all Israel. The Acts period was all-Israel because all Gentiles in the church were grafted into Israel. Next, we eliminate everything from our doctrine, in the 59 Jewish books, all of the Jewish possessions that we erroneously think belong to us - 10 Commandments, New Jerusalem, rapture, Acts church, the gifts, the Great Commision, water baptism You know, all the stuff the heretical mainstream denominational churches have been telling you all your life that these all-Jewish things belong to you.

They don't belong to you. None of them belonged to Gentiles when they were given, so why do you believe they belong to you now? You're not Israel and you never will be. That bit about being the seed of Abraham ended in Ac 28:28, when Israel ceased to be God's chosen people and we Gentiles replaced them, at least until this present 2000 year Gentile period is over, in about 45 more years.

Next, when you become a true believer in God's Word and your slate is cleaned of all that Israel stuff that never did belong to you, you get into Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon, and find out what really belongs to you. You'll find the blessings are far, far, far better than anything Israel ever had. For example, we Gentiles, at least the ones that God gives the eyes of understanding (Eph 1:18) to, to see our hope and calling in Paul's 7 post-Acts books, will spend eternity in the highest heaven, where Christ now sits at the right hand of God. No one in the other 59 books EVER had a hope of going to Heaven - hard to believe after the brainwashing we've gotten from the know-nothing denominational system all of our lives, but true. The reason they know-nothing is because none of them rightly divide. A few Baptists divide, but none of them do it rightly.

"Washing of water" and "washing of regeneration" loutron refers to water baptism, a laver of water, a baptismal font.

Just as in Acts 2 Peter convicted his hearers and they asked what they must do. Peter commanded them to be baptized and then tells them to "save yourselves". No one can save himself by himself but they could save themselves in the sense by obeying God's command to be baptized then God would take away the body of sin. Those that obey are working out their own salvation, (Philippians 2:12).

save yourselves - Acts 2:40
save thyself - 1 Timothy 4:16
cleanse ourselves - 2 Corinthians 4:7
ye have purified your souls - 1 Peter 1:22
cleanse your hands, purify your hearts - James 4:8
if a man purge himself - 2 Timothy 2:20
keep thyself pure - 1 Timothy 5:22
keep yourselves in the love of God - Jude 1:22
keep His commandments - 1 John 5:3; 1 John 2:3; 1 John 3:22; John 14:15; John 15:10
keep body less become a reprobate - 1 Corinthians 9:27
etc, etc

Man therefore does have a role in his own salvation. When it comes to salvation no one was ever told to 'do nothing and thou shalt be saved'.

As a matter of fact, when it comes to God and salvation one cannot be idle. Paul says in Romans 6:16 that we are all doing something, we are either serving 1) sin unto death or 2) obedience unto righteousness. Those that humbly submit to God's command to be water baptized are serving obedience unto righteousness.
 
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Marymog

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Luke 12:49-50
49 "I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!
NKJV

QUESTION?? Was Jesus talking about a water baptism???
No, he was not. I do not know of any bible scholar that would suggest He was talking about water baptism. That passage has NOTHING to do with all the other references of water baptism in scripture. It does not negate all those other reference's to water baptism and the 2,000 year Christian practice of water baptism. Are you suggesting that the NT Christians were wrong about water baptism? Peter equated water baptism to Noah. If Peter wasn't referring to water saving Noah and his family what was he equating?

Curious Mary
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Hi,

I looked up the word “through” and one of the definitions is: “by means of”.

...... eight souls, were saved “by means of” water.....

I think I get what your saying. Water, poured over the head or by immersion of the body, is used to save a person in a Christian baptism. No water touched the eight in the Ark therefore the water didn’t save them, the Ark saved them.

I think the key word you are overlooking is “antitype”. Look up the definition of that word and I think it will all make sense how water saved Noah and his family and now it is being used to save us....Just like scripture says.

Peter referenced Noah and his family being saved by means of water. Now we we are saved thru baptism which is done with water. When Jesus was baptized notice WATER and SPIRIT (Matthew 3:16). During Pentecost Peter said, Repent and be baptized (water).....and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.....notice water and Spirit. Genesis 1:1-2....water and Spirit. Moses and the Israelites being saved by water with the help of a Spirit (angel of GOD).

MARY


1) Peter said baptism doth also now save us. Nothing else in the immediate context or anything in the NT changes or contradicts this stated fact that baptism saves. People can only choose to accept this fact or reject it but they cannot ever change truth.

2) like figure in the KJV is antitypos meaning a mirror reflection:
the OT type: saved by water (flood)
NT anti-type: saved by water (baptism)

"saved by water" is a mirror reflection of "saved by water". Attempting to change "water" to "ark" in verse 20 would be 1)changing, perverting God's word and 2) destroying the mirror reflection, the OT type to NT anti-type Peter is making.
 

Marymog

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Very good Mary but there are more than one meaning and you have just given your choice of the word "THROUGHT".

1. in one side and out the other
2. from end to end
3. between the parts of
4. by way of
5. from beginning to the end
6. by means of

Therefore "context" determines the use of the word. In context we see that the ARK carried the those inside from dry land to dry land. It was the ARK that saved them. Not the water. The Ark represents those ""IN CHRIST"". All that are IN CHRIST are carried over their sins and their sins can not touch them. Why, because they are in Christ by an operation of the Holy Spirit.

To be outside of the Ark is death. To be outside of Christ is death.

I see this spiritually. Not physically.
I agree. There is more than one meaning. I simply did as you asked and what I found SUPPORTS my assertion. It backs up what I have said.

With that said you have articulated your position well and I see how you have come to your conclusion. I am not necessarily even disagreeing with you. However, Peter used the word WATER (eight souls were saved by water) and then in the next sentence he connected it to BAPTISM (baptism doth also now save us). Do you not believe that Peter was referring to water being used in baptism?

Mary
 

H. Richard

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I agree. There is more than one meaning. I simply did as you asked and what I found SUPPORTS my assertion. It backs up what I have said.

With that said you have articulated your position well and I see how you have come to your conclusion. I am not necessarily even disagreeing with you. However, Peter used the word WATER (eight souls were saved by water) and then in the next sentence he connected it to BAPTISM (baptism doth also now save us). Do you not believe that Peter was referring to water being used in baptism?

Mary

***

Mary, I do not believe the child of God has anything to do with salvation except to believe and trust in what God (Jesus) has already accomplished on the cross. Jesus sent Paul with a message of salvation by the grace of God. We are to believe, have faith, trust in His work on the cross to save us.

In religions mankind must do those physical things required by religion. But under grace God did it all for us. He saw that we could not make our sinful flesh sinless. Because He loves us so much He did for us what we could not do.

Salvation by the work of man will not save anyone. But with God all things are possible. Jesus said that.

Matt 19:23-26
With God All Things Are Possible (Mark 10:23-31; Luke 18:24-30) 23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
NKJV

It plainly says that with men it is impossible. But because of God's love for us HE made a away to save the ungodly.

Rom 4:5-6
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
NKJV

And who are those that God imputes His (GOD"S) righteousness too. Those that believe His promises that they are saved by the work of Jesus on the cross. --- Salvation is the work of God, not man.
 

Marymog

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Mary, I do not believe the child of God has anything to do with salvation except to believe and trust in what God (Jesus) has already accomplished on the cross. Jesus sent Paul with a message of salvation by the grace of God. We are to believe, have faith, trust in His work on the cross to save us.

In religions mankind must do those physical things required by religion. But under grace God did it all for us. He saw that we could not make our sinful flesh sinless. Because He loves us so much He did for us what we could not do.

Salvation by the work of man will not save anyone. But with God all things are possible. Jesus said that.

Matt 19:23-26
With God All Things Are Possible (Mark 10:23-31; Luke 18:24-30) 23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
NKJV

It plainly says that with men it is impossible. But because of God's love for us HE made a away to save the ungodly.

Rom 4:5-6
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
NKJV

And who are those that God imputes His (GOD"S) righteousness too. Those that believe His promises that they are saved by the work of Jesus on the cross. --- Salvation is the work of God, not man.
That was a very long response my friend. However, I don't see an answer to my very simple question:

Peter used the word WATER (eight souls were saved by water) and then in the next sentence he connected it to BAPTISM (baptism doth also now save us).

Do you not believe that Peter was referring to water being used in baptism?

Curious Mary
 

H. Richard

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That was a very long response my friend. However, I don't see an answer to my very simple question:

Peter used the word WATER (eight souls were saved by water) and then in the next sentence he connected it to BAPTISM (baptism doth also now save us).

Do you not believe that Peter was referring to water being used in baptism?

Curious Mary


***

We have been over this before and I don't think you will ever stop. Here are the verses:

1 Peter 3:20-21
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us — baptism(not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
NKJV

Through water is not by water. But you insist that it is by water. Okay believe as you wish. But common sense tells me that the water did not save them. The Ark did. Just as in God's grace being put ""IN CHRIST"" saves us today.

Think about this, if water saved them then where is the antitype that saves us today. It can't be water because water is not an antitype of water. If you set two glasses of water next to each other aren't they the same water.

Now don't come back on what I have written and claim I have not answered your request because I have. You just will not accept it and I am not going to let that be my problem. I will not reply to again about this.
 
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Heb 13:8

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That was a very long response my friend. However, I don't see an answer to my very simple question:

Peter used the word WATER (eight souls were saved by water) and then in the next sentence he connected it to BAPTISM (baptism doth also now save us).

Do you not believe that Peter was referring to water being used in baptism?

Curious Mary

Spiritual water Mary, Jhn 7:37-39.
 

Marymog

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We have been over this before and I don't think you will ever stop. Here are the verses:

1 Peter 3:20-21
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us — baptism(not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
NKJV

Through water is not by water. But you insist that it is by water. Okay believe as you wish. But common sense tells me that the water did not save them. The Ark did. Just as in God's grace being put ""IN CHRIST"" saves us today.

Think about this, if water saved them then where is the antitype that saves us today. It can't be water because water is not an antitype of water. If you set two glasses of water next to each other aren't they the same water.

Now don't come back on what I have written and claim I have not answered your request because I have. You just will not accept it and I am not going to let that be my problem. I will not reply to again about this.
Lol...I don't insist it....scripture insists it many times over. Our Christian brothers and sisters who lived then insisted it.

Mary
 

Heb 13:8

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Lol...I don't insist it....scripture insists it many times over. Our Christian brothers and sisters who lived then insisted it.

Mary

Spiritual water Mary, Jhn 7:37-39. H2O will not save you any more than sacrificing goats for sins will.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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You will know them by their fruit, and understanding spiritual water (anointing) is testing their fruit. Ur welcome. :cool:

Come again? Can you rephrase that? Or at least expound on it with clarity?
 

Heb 13:8

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Come again? Can you rephrase that? Or at least expound on it with clarity?

Hi JIF. Sure, if you're preaching that H20 saves you and not the blood of Christ alone, that is false. H2O will not save you any more than sacrificing goats for sins will. There is a better covenant now JIF.

Heb 7:22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.

God bless