Baptism ?

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Marymog

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***

You reolied with "Here [John 3:5] Christ is speaking of Baptism, of real and natural water such as a cow may drink. . . . Here Christ also speaks of the Holy Spirit and teaches us to regard Baptism as a spiritual, yes, a Spirit-filled water, in which the Holy Spirit is present and active.

More words that are not in John 3:1-6.

I agree that the word of God is not to be tampered with. But you can not see that when you add the word baptism to what it says in John 3:1-6 you are tampering with it.

Water did not save Noah. The ark did. The water was God's judgement of death. All who were in the water died. The ark represents Jesus Christ because all that are in Him will be saved.

You really ought to read the Bible for what it says and not what you want it to say.

2 Cor 1:19-22
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us-- by me, Silvanus, and Timothy-- was not Yes and No, but in Him was Yes.
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
21 Now He who establishes us with you ""in Christ"" and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
(NKJ)

I look at the words ""in Christ"" and think of them in reference to Noah and the flood.

Noah was told by God to build an Ark. It was built by human hands (Noah’s hands). The waters of God‘s wrath in the flood did not touch Noah and those with him. Noah, by his choice, obeyed God and went into the Ark he had built. --- The waters of the flood were the judgment of God on a sinful world full of sinful people. That does not mean that Noah was sinless. It means Noah believed what God told him.

Today there is another Ark. It is “”NOT”” built by human hands. It is built by the hands (will) of God. - Man can not go into the Ark that God has built by his own efforts (will). He must be placed in God’s Ark (Jesus) by God (the Holy Spirit). God places a person in the Ark (Jesus) He built when that person places their faith, trust and confidence in Jesus’ work on the cross to save him/her. -- This Ark that God has built carries those in it safely over the sins “THEY” commit in their flesh. Their sins can not touch them since they have been atoned (paid) for by the blood of Jesus on the cross.

Jesus Christ is OUR ARK, and just as those in Noah's Ark were kept from the waters of the flood, we who are placed ""in Christ,"" by God, and are kept from the judgment of the law. If we are not ""in Christ"" the law condemns us.

I believe what Paul said when he penned the words ""in Christ."" I also believe that we are placed ""in Christ"" by God. It is an operation of the Holy Spirit (God).
Thank you. At no time did I, as you have accused me of doing, add the word baptism to John 3:1-6. If I did, please quote me and tell me what post it is in.

Scripture says opposite of what you believe: because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Scripture is equating WATER BAPTISM saving us just like WATER SAVED Noah and his family.....I am not making that equation.

Think of it this way H. Richard: If Noah built the Ark and the water (flood) never came then he and his family would have eventually exited the Ark and been back in the same EVIL FILLED WORLD that they were in before. Therefore it was not The Ark that saved them it was IN FACT the water that saved them (and the future of humanity) because THE WATER was used to WASH AWAY all the sinful people. The WATER was used to SAVE Noah and his family just like it is used to SAVE you in baptism (1Peter 3:20-21).

There is NOTHING in the entire chapter of 2 Corinthins 1 that has ANYTHING to do with BAPTISM or NOAH or WATER......Who is teaching you how to read scripture??? How do you equate it with Noah, water and baptism?????

Bible study Mary
 

Marymog

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There's no Enoch in Acts 8:36. And he was baptized AFTER he was saved and regenerated.

But it has everything to do with the NEW BIRTH. So why don't you study that passage carefully so that you can abandon your false doctrine of baptismal regeneration.

Or does Tradition trump Scripture every time?
Oh goodness....How embarrassing. I was conflating eunuch with Enoch. I apologize.

Previously I stated: The word water NOR baptism is ever mentioned in 1 Peter 1:23-25 and it has NOTHING to do with baptism.

I will now DOUBLE DOWN on that statement and ADD that the word water NOR baptism is ever mentioned in the entire book of 1 Peter 1 and the entire book has NOTHING to do with baptism. How about if we only quote passages from scripture that are relevant to our discussion???

Who decides "false doctrine"??? (if you care to answer any question I have asked in this post, this one would be it. that is if you don't selectivly quote me AGAIN)

Why did you SELECTIVLY QUOTE me. Are you scared to answer all my questions from post #84?? I will ask again: From whom have you received your teaching?

The tradition you are following is about 500 years old...The one I am following was practiced and documented by people who walked and talked with the Apostles and it mirrors scripture. Sooooo who's traditions have trumped Scripture?

Mary
 

Enoch111

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I will now DOUBLE DOWN on that statement and ADD that the word water NOR baptism is ever mentioned in the entire book of 1 Peter 1 and the entire book has NOTHING to do with baptism. How about if we only quote passages from scripture that are relevant to our discussion???
We are talking about being "born again", and you are correct. The water of baptism is not mentioned in 1 Peter but the water of the Gospel is. As to where I get my teaching, it is from the Bible itself.

So tell us -- does Peter link the Gospel to the New Birth or not?

If he does, it means that water baptism does not contribute to to the New Birth (as you falsely believe and claim).
 

Marymog

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We are talking about being "born again", and you are correct. The water of baptism is not mentioned in 1 Peter but the water of the Gospel is. As to where I get my teaching, it is from the Bible itself.

So tell us -- does Peter link the Gospel to the New Birth or not?

If he does, it means that water baptism does not contribute to to the New Birth (as you falsely believe and claim).
Dear Enoch,

Wrong...AGAIN....we are not talking about being born again. The subject of this thread is Baptism.

Your alleged Water of the Gospel has nothing to do with baptism.

You teach yourself what the bible means? That explains everything. How do you know what you believe is not false? Do you tell yourself when you are right and wrong in your translation???

You have, once again, partially quoted me just like you did in post #81 & #103. When you decide to carry on a full conversation and answer all my questions (just like I believe I have answered all of yours) and stop partially quoting me I will re-engage with you in this conversation. Until then I wish you well.

Mary
 

Ac28

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I see no references that associate "born again" with salvation. Jesus Christ taught that being born again was the ticket for Jews to enter their promised Kingdom. However, Christ's returning and setting up the Kingdom was dependent, time-wise, on Israel, as a nation, accepting Christ as the promised Messiah, Mt 23:39, Ac 3:19-21. This has not yet happened and is the only reason Christ has not returned. I can't see Him returning for at least another 45 years, since there has been no Israel since 63AD, in God's eyes. In about 2063, the present day Gentile period will be over and Israel will be back on the scene. When that happens, prophecy will once again start to be fulfilled.

And, of course, water baptism and the Lord's supper ceased being an ordinance for anyone 1955 years ago. We are in a time of Pure Grace. No ordinances, no sacraments, no nothing except faith in Jesus Christ
 
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Enoch111

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I see no references that associate "born again" with salvation. Jesus Christ taught that being born again was the ticket for Jews to enter their promised Kingdom.
How can anyone not see a connection between "born again" and salvation? This is incredible.
 

Ac28

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How can anyone not see a connection between "born again" and salvation? This is incredible.
I'm from Missouri. Show me.

You've been listening to Denominational preachers, I see. None of them rightly divide and, therefore, at least half of what they think they know is incorrect.

Paul is the only apostle and teacher that we Gentiles have. In Acts 20-27, he said, "For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God." Yet, in his 14 books, more than half of the books in the misnamed New Testament, he doesn't mention it once. I wonder why. Another word he never uses is "hell". I wonder why.
 
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twinc

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How can anyone not see a connection between "born again" and salvation? This is incredible.


Jesus said non Christians must be born again as Christians - He did not say Christians must be born again imho - twinc
 
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H. Richard

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Thank you. At no time did I, as you have accused me of doing, add the word baptism to John 3:1-6. If I did, please quote me and tell me what post it is in.

Scripture says opposite of what you believe: because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Scripture is equating WATER BAPTISM saving us just like WATER SAVED Noah and his family.....I am not making that equation.

Think of it this way H. Richard: If Noah built the Ark and the water (flood) never came then he and his family would have eventually exited the Ark and been back in the same EVIL FILLED WORLD that they were in before. Therefore it was not The Ark that saved them it was IN FACT the water that saved them (and the future of humanity) because THE WATER was used to WASH AWAY all the sinful people. The WATER was used to SAVE Noah and his family just like it is used to SAVE you in baptism (1Peter 3:20-21).

There is NOTHING in the entire chapter of 2 Corinthins 1 that has ANYTHING to do with BAPTISM or NOAH or WATER......Who is teaching you how to read scripture??? How do you equate it with Noah, water and baptism?????

Bible study Mary

***
Think of it this way Mary.

I believe they were saved """through""" the water, not "by" the water as you have indicated. Noah and his family were IN THE ARK and there was not a drop of water that touched them. So who is teaching you all this mis-information you are putting down?

1 Peter 3:20-22
20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

Look up the word THROUGH. (he threw the ball through the window)

21 There is also an antitype which now saves us — baptism(not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
NKJV
 
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Enoch111

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I cannot find that either.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. (John 15:3).

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word... (Eph 5:25,26)

How can the Word of Christ clean and wash anyone unless it is metaphorical "water" applied to the soul and spirit?

To be "born of water and of the Spirit" is to have the Gospel applied to the soul while the Spirit firstly convicts and convinces, and then regenerates. According to Scripture, the Word of God is a living Word, therefore it is "the POWER OF GOD" unto salvation" (Rom 1:16).
 

Ernest T. Bass

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Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. (John 15:3).

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word... (Eph 5:25,26)

How can the Word of Christ clean and wash anyone unless it is metaphorical "water" applied to the soul and spirit?

To be "born of water and of the Spirit" is to have the Gospel applied to the soul while the Spirit firstly convicts and convinces, and then regenerates. According to Scripture, the Word of God is a living Word, therefore it is "the POWER OF GOD" unto salvation" (Rom 1:16).


John 3:5-------Spirit++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1 Cor 13:15---Spirit+++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5-------Holy Ghost+++++washing of reg.>>>>>>>saved
Eph 5:26----the word+++++++washing of water>>>>>>cleansed

Here are four 'born again' verses and the Bible being its own best commentary makes it very plain, simple that water baptism is part of being born again.

In Titus 3:5 and Ephesians 5:26 the Greek word loutron is used for 'washing of regeneration' and 'washing of water' and refers to a laver of water, a baptismal font.

The role the Spirit, the word has in the new birth is the Spirit is the author of the word. The Bible calls the word a seed (Luke 8:11) and the seed/word is implanted in the heart when it is heard. In turn, the word brings forth faith in the heart (Romans 10:17) and instructs man on how to be saved by being water baptized (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; etc) with an obedient faith leading one to obedience in submitting to water baptism. Hence one is born again by the word, (1 Peter 1:23; James 1:18).

In Acts 8, the word/the seed was implanted in the heart of the eunuch by Phillip when he preached the word to the eunuch. The word/seed produced faith in the heart of the eunuch and he obediently was water baptized. Nothing metaphorical about the water here.

Note that the Spirit did not supernaturally 'illuminate' the understanding of the eunuch apart from the word nor 'spirit baptize' the eunuch. But instead, the Spirit sent Phillip to preach the word/seed, the eunuch hearing gained faith and was obedient to the word by being water baptized/born again per John 3:5; 1 Cor 12:13; Titus 3:5; Ephesians 5:26.
 

Ac28

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John 3:5-------Spirit++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1 Cor 13:15---Spirit+++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5-------Holy Ghost+++++washing of reg.>>>>>>>saved
Eph 5:26----the word+++++++washing of water>>>>>>cleansed

Here are four 'born again' verses and the Bible being its own best commentary makes it very plain, simple that water baptism is part of being born again.

In Titus 3:5 and Ephesians 5:26 the Greek word loutron is used for 'washing of regeneration' and 'washing of water' and refers to a laver of water, a baptismal font.

The role the Spirit, the word has in the new birth is the Spirit is the author of the word. The Bible calls the word a seed (Luke 8:11) and the seed/word is implanted in the heart when it is heard. In turn, the word brings forth faith in the heart (Romans 10:17) and instructs man on how to be saved by being water baptized (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; etc) with an obedient faith leading one to obedience in submitting to water baptism. Hence one is born again by the word, (1 Peter 1:23; James 1:18).

In Acts 8, the word/the seed was implanted in the heart of the eunuch by Phillip when he preached the word to the eunuch. The word/seed produced faith in the heart of the eunuch and he obediently was water baptized. Nothing metaphorical about the water here.

Note that the Spirit did not supernaturally 'illuminate' the understanding of the eunuch apart from the word nor 'spirit baptize' the eunuch. But instead, the Spirit sent Phillip to preach the word/seed, the eunuch hearing gained faith and was obedient to the word by being water baptized/born again per John 3:5; 1 Cor 12:13; Titus 3:5; Ephesians 5:26.

Titus 3:5 and Eph 5:26 are what Christ did to save us, not something we did - read the context verses. And, of course, neither has anything to do with born again, the ticket for Jews to enter their earthly Kingdom. Born again has nothing to do with salvation. A few minutes ago I asked my son and he thinks born again is the resurrection of the dry bones and I'm starting to think he is right. Christ knew that no one during His ministry would be alive to enter the Kingdom and that everyone that entered would have to be born again, i.e., resurrected.

During this 2000 year Gentile period of Pure Grace, all water baptism does is get you wet. There are zero works for us to do for our salvation, according to Eph 2:8-9, including water Baptism. Salvation is a 100% pure gift. None of the other verses you quoted (from Lk, Rom, Mk, Ac, 1Pe, Jam) apply directly to us today, unless they are repeated in Paul's 7 post-Acts books. They're from a time past that was all Israel/ We're not Israel. We're Gentiles. The differences in scripture between the 2 are countless.

That's what rightly divide (correctly cut) God's word means 2Tim 2:15. We must cut it just once in a place where it's all Israel on one side of the cut and all Gentile on the other side. The only place in the Bible where you can do that is the very end of Acts. Once we cut it, we have Paul's 7 post-Acts books, all for Gentiles, and 59 books which are all Israel. The Acts period was all-Israel because all Gentiles in the church were grafted into Israel. Next, we eliminate everything from our doctrine, in the 59 Jewish books, all of the Jewish possessions that we erroneously think belong to us - 10 Commandments, New Jerusalem, rapture, Acts church, the gifts, the Great Commision, water baptism You know, all the stuff the heretical mainstream denominational churches have been telling you all your life that these all-Jewish things belong to you.

They don't belong to you. None of them belonged to Gentiles when they were given, so why do you believe they belong to you now? You're not Israel and you never will be. That bit about being the seed of Abraham ended in Ac 28:28, when Israel ceased to be God's chosen people and we Gentiles replaced them, at least until this present 2000 year Gentile period is over, in about 45 more years.

Next, when you become a true believer in God's Word and your slate is cleaned of all that Israel stuff that never did belong to you, you get into Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon, and find out what really belongs to you. You'll find the blessings are far, far, far better than anything Israel ever had. For example, we Gentiles, at least the ones that God gives the eyes of understanding (Eph 1:18) to, to see our hope and calling in Paul's 7 post-Acts books, will spend eternity in the highest heaven, where Christ now sits at the right hand of God. No one in the other 59 books EVER had a hope of going to Heaven - hard to believe after the brainwashing we've gotten from the know-nothing denominational system all of our lives, but true. The reason they know-nothing is because none of them rightly divide. A few Baptists divide, but none of them do it rightly.
 
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epostle1

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Col. 2:12 – in baptism, we literally die with Christ and are raised with Christ. It is a supernatural reality, not just a symbolic ritual. The Scriptures never refer to baptism as symbolic. Denial of baptism (just getting wet)denies our participation in Christ's death and resurrection. If you can't see dying and raised with Christ in Baptism, then you can't see Baptism. When you can't see Baptism, you have no choice but to fall into one of the major camps.
 
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H. Richard

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Either the work of salvation is was accomplished on the cross or there is no salvation no matter how many times a person get wet.

Salvation is not accomplished by man's efforts nor by a man's efforts to keep it.

According to Paul this is the gospel:
1 Cor 2:1-5
2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
NKJV
 

Philip James

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5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God

Indeed, and it is that very power of God that buries a man with Christ in baptism and raises him to new life in the Spirit..

It is not an action of man, a man cannot baptise himself... But an action of God done to a man..

Peace!