Love your enemies

[VictoryinJesus]

Well, as I said above you first cover all the bases on the persons testimony. Then if you have doubts....

You observe the person you are talking about. You don't need to follow them. But when they come to your attention you pay attention to the leaning of your spirit. Is it good or not? If not, then something is not right. I mean, you have the Holy Ghost, correct? If your spirit is troubled then it is He who is troubling it.

Which means around this person, you be on your guard.

Stranger

Galatians 5:22-23
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[aspen]

It is always frightening to watch people create gods in their own image, but when their ideal is tribal and racist, it is dangerous.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Why did God not say to Israel, when they were to enter the promised land, to love your enemies?

Stranger

Great question; yet I don't see that we have a complete answer. I too have wondered this and don't understand God's nature found in the OT compared to what we see His nature to be in the NT through Jesus. What is of most importance is what He has said to His people today, Christians. In the OT God gave His people instructions through Moses and other prophets. Those instructions do not apply to God's children,us, today. God sent His prophet/messenger Jesus to give us instruction on how to live. These principles are different from what we read in Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Love your enemy ≠ let your enemy slaughter you.

Please provide Jesus' principles to prove this, thank you.

 

[Stranger]

Great question; yet I don't see that we have a complete answer. I too have wondered this and don't understand God's nature found in the OT compared to what we see His nature to be in the NT through Jesus. What is of most importance is what He has said to His people today, Christians. In the OT God gave His people instructions through Moses and other prophets. Those instructions do not apply to God's children,us, today. God sent His prophet/messenger Jesus to give us instruction on how to live. These principles are different from what we read in Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

God's nature has not and never will change.

God is willing to have His relationship with the redeemed to be based on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, which in no way changes or abuses His nature.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

Hey there @Boll Weevil ...wow you are a chatty guy...it's taken you two years to respond to this post....

Maybe you have learned much in those 2 years?
Welcome back...if you are back...or will we wait until 2020 ? ;)

. . . .

 

[Boll Weevil]

God's nature has not and never will change.

God is willing to have His relationship with the redeemed to be based on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, which in no way changes or abuses His nature.

Stranger

What I mean is God's nature in what He expects from His people today and what His message is to His people today. His instruction to His people through Jesus is most definitely different from what He instructed His people in the OT. As Christians we follow Jesus in how we live, no longer the OT.

"I am trying to show the ridiculousness of those who interpret 'love thy enemy' as a blanket statement that means the Christian must never raise his arm in any sort of defense."
Jesus clearly taught differently. Jesus' principles are clear that we are never justified in physical violence. Numerous commands, examples, principles that we are to always love our enemy. We have to ask ourselves and study what it means to love. No examples or commands or principles to exhibit physical harm as a Christian. We have to let God's Word speak for itself without allowing any prejudice into it.

 

[Stranger]

What I mean is God's nature in what He expects from His people today and what His message is to His people today. His instruction to His people through Jesus is most definitely different from what He instructed His people in the OT. As Christians we follow Jesus in how we live, no longer the OT.

"I am trying to show the ridiculousness of those who interpret 'love thy enemy' as a blanket statement that means the Christian must never raise his arm in any sort of defense."
Jesus clearly taught differently. Jesus' principles are clear that we are never justified in physical violence. Numerous commands, examples, principles that we are to always love our enemy. We have to ask ourselves and study what it means to love. No examples or commands or principles to exhibit physical harm as a Christian. We have to let God's Word speak for itself without allowing any prejudice into it.

Yes, we follow Jesus. But, we follow what Jesus has given to the Church. And the 'Sermon on the Mount', which contains the command to 'love thy enemy' is not to the Church. It is to Israel concenring their coming Kingdom. It is the Laws of the Kingdom. The Laws of the Kingdom apply directly when Jesus Christ is sitting and ruling on the throne in Jerusalem.

Stranger

 

[Dcopymope]

Yes, we follow Jesus. But, we follow what Jesus has given to the Church. And the 'Sermon on the Mount', which contains the command to 'love thy enemy' is not to the Church. It is to Israel concenring their coming Kingdom. It is the Laws of the Kingdom. The Laws of the Kingdom apply directly when Jesus Christ is sitting and ruling on the throne in Jerusalem.

Stranger

:) Not to the Church? Well that's great, because its impossible to "love" everyone anyway, no matter how much some want to ignore reality.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Yes, we follow Jesus. But, we follow what Jesus has given to the Church. And the 'Sermon on the Mount', which contains the command to 'love thy enemy' is not to the Church. It is to Israel concenring their coming Kingdom. It is the Laws of the Kingdom. The Laws of the Kingdom apply directly when Jesus Christ is sitting and ruling on the throne in Jerusalem.

Stranger

I'm not sure how Jesus' sermon is not applicable to all of His followers. The message Jesus gave His church is what He did and said while here on earth. Yes, the Jews were God's people and the ones Jesus was interacting with and what He told them is what the apostles spread throughout the world. There are a couple of different views on God's Kingdom. I see part of His Kingdom as the church. His Kingdom was established when Jesus defeated death. I believe there will be a time when things change, I'm not sure exactly how that change will look and be (a New Heaven & New Earth). It will be; however a time when Jesus comes back to earth and judges all of man. I see Jesus ruling currently and the Jerusalem is a Spiritual Jerusalem (the church). Jesus is ruling His Kingdom, He is ruling His church (Jesus is the head of the church) Yes, within context Jesus spoke to specific people, at the same time I see what He taught as God's instruction for His people (Christians which are the church) to follow today.

 

[Philip James]

Jesus' principles are clear that we are never justified in physical violence

Tell that to the money changers HE drove from the temple

 

[Dcopymope]

I'm not sure how Jesus' sermon is not applicable to all of His followers. The message Jesus gave His church is what He did and said while here on earth. Yes, the Jews were God's people and the ones Jesus was interacting with and what He told them is what the apostles spread throughout the world. There are a couple of different views on God's Kingdom. I see part of His Kingdom as the church. His Kingdom was established when Jesus defeated death. I believe there will be a time when things change, I'm not sure exactly how that change will look and be (a New Heaven & New Earth). It will be; however a time when Jesus comes back to earth and judges all of man. I see Jesus ruling currently and the Jerusalem is a Spiritual Jerusalem (the church). Jesus is ruling His Kingdom, He is ruling His church (Jesus is the head of the church) Yes, within context Jesus spoke to specific people, at the same time I see what He taught as God's instruction for His people (Christians which are the church) to follow today.

Micah tells us one thing that will change with his arrival, and that is a mass disarmament of all nations. No more B-2 Stealth bombers and tomahawk cruise missiles for America and crew to bully other defenseless nations. Strangely, he also tells us that the worship of false gods will persist. You would think that such a thing wouldn't be tolerated by Jesus, but if that verse proves anything at all it is that religion in of itself is the farthest thing from the worlds problems, otherwise he would be putting a stop to it. Satan gets let loose from the pit some time later, so maybe God lets the various religions exist to give the deceiver something to chew on, to make it easier for him to deceive the nations into turning on him. Beyond this, I can't really fathom what Gods motives are for allowing the worship of other "gods" to continue, I just don't know what to think about it.

(Micah 4:1-7) "But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. {2} And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

{3} ¶ And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. {4} But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. {5} For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. {6} In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; {7} And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever."

 

[Dcopymope]

Tell that to the money changers HE drove from the temple

OR, he could have just called down twelve legions of angels and smoked every single one of them, but I guess that would have sent too 'loud' a message. That's exactly what I would have done.....but Jesus unfortunately just wasn't that hardcore.

(Matthew 26:51-54) "And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest’s, and smote off his ear. {52} Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. {53} Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? {54} But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?"

 

[Philip James]

OR, he could have just called down twelve legions of angels and smoked every single one of them, but I guess that would have sent too 'loud' a message. That's exactly what I would have done.....but Jesus unfortunately just wasn't that hardcore.

HE is indeed merciful in HiS judgements.

To Him be all power and Glory, forever and ever!

 

[Enoch111]

And the 'Sermon on the Mount', which contains the command to 'love thy enemy' is not to the Church.

What makes you suggest that any of Christ's teachings are *not to the Church*. If Jesus is God (which He is ) who came to establish His Church on earth, then all His teaching are applicable to all Christians.

While Christ was speaking to Jews (generally unsaved Jews) He was addressing (a) God's children (the Church) and (b) all human beings.

"Love your enemies" is a command to the Church, and Christ prayed for His enemies on the Cross, and Stephen prayed for his enemies while he was being killed.

 

[Stranger]

To Enoch111 and Boll Weevil

Yall are asking questions that have been covered already in this thread. So, go back and reread and see if the answers are not there for you.

I have gone through and picked out some that I think will address what you ask . #26, 30, 36, 37, 50, 55, 57, 61, 63, 65, 71, 96, 103.

Take notes.

Stranger

 

[Marymog]

Why did God not say to Israel, when they were to enter the promised land, to love your enemies?
Stranger

There are some examples of showing love to your enemy in the OT:

Proverbs 25:21: If your enemies are hungry, give them bread to eat; and if they are thirsty, give them water to drink.

Proverbs 24:17, Obadiah 1:12

Exodus 23:4-5: When you come upon your enemy’s ox or donkey going astray, you shall bring it back. When you see the donkey of one who hates you lying under its burden and you would hold back from setting it free, you must help to set it free.

But I understand what you are getting at. Why didn’t God just come right out and say to the Israelites: Love your enemies. You pose a very good question.

If we could be in the mind of God, wouldn’t we be God’s? Then none of this would be a mystery.

Mary

 

[Stranger]

There are some examples of showing love to your enemy in the OT:

Proverbs 25:21: If your enemies are hungry, give them bread to eat; and if they are thirsty, give them water to drink.

Proverbs 24:17, Obadiah 1:12

Exodus 23:4-5: When you come upon your enemy’s ox or donkey going astray, you shall bring it back. When you see the donkey of one who hates you lying under its burden and you would hold back from setting it free, you must help to set it free.

But I understand what you are getting at. Why didn’t God just come right out and say to the Israelites: Love your enemies. You pose a very good question.

If we could be in the mind of God, wouldn’t we be God’s? Then none of this would be a mystery.

Mary

I would say concerning Israel entering the land, that God was not concerned with loving ones enemies. He was concerned with destroying the enemies and setting up his people Israel in the land.

(Ecc. 3:1-3) "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven:...A time to kill, and a time to heal;...."

Stranger

 

[Marymog]

I would say concerning Israel entering the land, that God was not concerned with loving ones enemies. He was concerned with destroying the enemies and setting up his people Israel in the land.

(Ecc. 3:1-3) "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven:...A time to kill, and a time to heal;...."

Stranger

I think I see what you are saying. In general the OT teaches that they were to be kind to their enemies (and their animals).

But when it came time to create the nation of Israel God was only interested in destroying the enemies of Israel because it was a “time to kill”?

Mary

 

[Helen]

I think I see what you are saying. In general the OT teaches that they were to be kind to their enemies (and their animals).

But when it came time to create the nation of Israel God was only interested in destroying the enemies of Israel because it was a “time to kill”?

Mary

Interesting. :)

I am not even going to pretend that I have red this Thread...so I must do so...sometime...when I have checked through all the threads I haven't read yet this morning.

But, as I read the OT I don't really find anything much about loving enemies at all. Now Covenants I do find. They had many...which was the next best thing to 'loving enemies' Covenants in the middle east were big. If you made a covenant of salt with someone...then you had to guard their life as if it were your own. I did a study once on all the covenants and traditions...triggered by a book I read in the 70's " Through an Eastern Window"

Judas as we know was well aware of all these...so when he 'dipped with Jesus into the dish, and Jesus gave him the sop...they both knew that Judas was going to break the Salt Covenant that they had. ( the bitter herbs were a salted dish)

No, to me the OT is all to do with the law and cleansing the Land.
It is a picture of getting rid of sin and the consequence of sin..
God did not tell Elisha to love Ahab, or to put up with the idols of Baal.

There isn't much about loving neighbour at all...if any. Therefore they had laws Treaties and covenants , love .....no.
The only love I see in the OT is Godward. No law about loving sideways...

But, I will read back through these posts and try to catch up. :)