Adam and Mary........Mediatrix

[bbyrd009]

So I don't see your example as being a good one because most persons are not Christian --- there is no absolute authority (God), so WHO decides what is right?

funny we see the same principle operating in the Est'd "Christian churches" too tho huh

 

[GodsGrace]

they actually pretty much went the way of the Puritans i guess, and the whole order is being...well, dissolved is the best characterization that comes to mind, or at least completely remade or something. So i deemed them good Anarchists, but really Anarchy is working within their ranks as well, seems to me

Oh really? I don't know about this. I've been away so long but everything seems like only yesterday!

 

[GodsGrace]

funny we see the same principle operating in the Est'd "Christian churches" too tho huh

What's Est'd?

 

[bbyrd009]

It's complicated...We can't even decide between ourselves here what God expects from us.

imo it's really pretty simple, but it is us who has gotten "complicated." So now we cannot even read what is being written i guess, "hidden from the wise"

 

[GodsGrace]

imo it's really pretty simple, but it is us who has gotten "complicated." So now we cannot even read what is being written i guess, "hidden from the wise"

Ya!!

Jesus clearly says something,
but it's not understood.
It's pretty amazing to me.

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh really? I don't know about this. I've been away so long but everything seems like only yesterday!

ya, you might search "Amish kids are changing" or something like that, -vaccinations or something

What's Est'd?

established

 

[GodsGrace]

ya, you might search "Amish kids are changing" or something like that, -vaccinations or something

established

Yes. We see the same principle in the est'd church.
No absolute truth anymore. Everyone thinks whatever they want to,,,as if God could change.

I'll be googling about the Amish.
See. We're right. How does one fight the govt? The govt will always win...

 

[bbyrd009]

Ya!!

Jesus clearly says something,
but it's not understood.
It's pretty amazing to me.

dialecticism is completely foreign to a logical thinker. Wish i could say i was getting a handle on it, but it's a slog imo. Anarchy is even reflected in dialecticism. at this point i can say with confidence that anything Christ said can be taken at least two ways, and it pays to at least get an understanding of the two ways, bc almost surely the first characterization is wrong, and It was written that way on purpose, to be taken the wrong way by the wise

 

[bbyrd009]

I'll be googling about the Amish.

Mennonites don't seem to be in near the same uproar right now...

 

[bbyrd009]

How does one fight the govt?

ha well by not needing them i guess?


i was gonna say 'Hitler could come take over the gov and i wouldn't care' but i guess that's already happened lol

 

[bbyrd009]

anyway, to the OP, i guess Mary is a perfect representative, at least

 

[GodsGrace]

ha well by not needing them i guess?


i was gonna say 'Hitler could come take over the gov and i wouldn't care' but i guess that's already happened lol

Agreed. I've always tried to need them as little as possible...
thus my dislike of socialism and communism.

 

[bbyrd009]

Agreed. I've always tried to need them as little as possible...
thus my dislike of socialism and communism.

well surely you mean the "political" versions of those, the "established" ones. hard to condemn socialism on the one hand and collect "social security" on the other i guess. If you've ever done a favor for someone you are a communist, basically, regardless of what you say

 

[GodsGrace]

well surely you mean the "political" versions of those, the "established" ones. hard to condemn socialism on the one hand and collect "social security" on the other i guess. If you've ever done a favor for someone you are a communist, basically, regardless of what you say

I was forced to pay into social security.
As to the other about helping someone...
Will think about that...

 

[bbyrd009]

I was forced to pay into social security.
As to the other about helping someone...
Will think about that...

ha well of course that isn't what "we" really mean by "communism" now, but imo that is the point; to commandeer your definitions in order to sow division where there was none before. Bc sometimes "democracy" is called for, sometimes "socialism," etc.
Fascism i'm not so sure about, but maybe even it too

 

[epostle1]

it seems Adam was complicit in Eve's sin as she was 'flesh of my flesh bone of my bone as was also the case with Mary and Jesus imho - twinc

co-redeemer, co-Mediatrix when properly understood, should not give Protestants fits
​

"Co" in co-redeemer, co-Mediatrix, etc. is Collaborator Mary "assisted" in our redemption and she assists in our mediation with Christ.

This context does not give Mary equal status with Christ, or usurp Christ in anyway. She, rather, merely cooperated and collaborated with Christ.

In a sense we, too, are co-mediators every time we pray for someone. We are offering intercession/mediation for our friend when we pray for them. This does not make us God or equal with God, it only means that we are cooperating with the economy of God when he asked us to be a family and pray for each other.

In terms of Mary as co-redeemer, she did in fact, cooperate in the redemption. When she made her fiat to accept God's will for her to bear the Christ Child she was cooperating in the redemption of mankind for it was through her that the Redeemer came into the world.

The solution to problems like this is not suppression but education. "co" just simply does NOT mean "equal to".

As for Judas, no he was NOT co-redeemer. Jesus could have been crucified without Judas' help. Jesus could have been arrested at any time whenever he was in public. In fact, Jesus mentions this in the Garden when he was arrested. Judas happened to be the instrument of Jesus' arrest, but was not necessary for Jesus' arrest. This is different than with Mary...

Mary's role was not incidental but REQUIRED. Jesus, to be incarnated, HAD to be born of a woman, otherwise he would not be human and thus could not be the redeemer.

Mary's collaboration was required; Judas' participation was not, but was incidental.

At this time the theory of co-redeemer is not Church dogma, and is not binding for belief by the faithful. But the concept should not wrinkle our shirts if we understand the nature of her role in the incarnation and the true meaning of "co".
by Br. Ignatius Mary, O.L.S.M.

REDEEMER IN THE WOMB​

 

[bbyrd009]

Mary "assisted" in our redemption and she assists in our mediation with Christ.

completely satanic, and cannot be supported in Scripture, which is why you didn't post any.
This is Virgin worship, forwarded by deceived Roman usurpers
and you have a choice to make wadr.
Your church is not melting for nothing kepha

now i hope you don't misunderstand me, i like having a deceived pov demonstrated here so the Light can shine, but you are not someone in your dotage ok. supposedly.

 

[bbyrd009]

you guys could at least imagine for a minute how you are perceived here, when there are other venues that are tailored for you,
where they respect extra-Biblical works, etc. I do not mean to be rude, but you don't have me on ignore for nothing either, huh?
so, imo me and Scripture are both on "ignore" to you, and i can live with that, maybe you can too i guess

 

[VictoryinJesus]

REDEEMER IN THE WOMB

It is confusing how Mary is seen as other than what she was. Yes, she was blessed. As every believer 'born again' of Spirit: is also blessed. Hebrew meaning of Mary: Wished-for child; rebellion; bitter. "bitter' same as in (Exodus 15:23) "...they could not drink the waters of Marah, for they were bitter:" and (Ruth 1:20) "And she said unto them, Call me not Naomi, call me Mara: for the Almighty hath dealt very bitterly with me." But the woman was to be saved through childbirth: Luke 1:48-49 [48] For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. [49] For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name. Going from "wished-for child; rebellion; bitter...to "blessed". And all that go from 'bitter' and are redeemed (born from above) are called 'blessed'; for he that is mighty hath done to them great things!

Genesis 35:10-11
[10] And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. [11] And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;

Out of the loins of compassion: that is what God showed to 'the woman' cursed with bitterness: compassion and Mercy and grace. John 3:6-7 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."

'That which is born of the flesh is flesh...'
'...that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.' Galatians 4:26 "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

Luke 14:26
[26] If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

… if any man does not love his Heavenly Father(God) and Heavenly mother(the new Jerusalem) more … he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 15:4
[4] For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father(God) or mother(the new city), let him die the death.

Mark 10:19
[19] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father(God) and mother(the new Jerusalem which is free). 'Live by the Law of the new land where I place you' Ephesians 6:2-3 "Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise) [3] That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth."

"REDEEMER IN THE WOMB" an image of the "Redeemer in the womb":: "Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;"

 

[bbyrd009]

"bitter' same as in (Exodus 15:23) "...they could not drink the waters of Marah, for they were bitter:" and (Ruth 1:20) "And she said unto them, Call me not Naomi, call me Mara: for the Almighty hath dealt very bitterly with me."

myrrh also comes from this, and while bitter is the most common tranny, i'm wondering now if strong might not be a better characterization? there's a pretty good imo treatise on this in http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Mary.html#.W1tMKNJKiUl, in the "Etymology of the name Mary." i'd be curious to hear an unbiased pov there, seemed legit to me