Blotted out of The Book Of Life?

[Kristian Gamst]

@Kristian Gamst you say...
"The same is it With salvation. BUT, you can take it out again and throw it away and it will be of no use. You have to take a Clear chioce to take it out."

I'm sorry, but the Gift of Salvation does not come with a return receipt attached to it.

2 Timothy 2:19 - "...The LORD knows those who are His..."

I don't know if you notice that the bibleverse you are quoting is not underlining Your statement. The Lord knows who are His. What does that have to do With that you cannot lose slavation/throw away the gift? Of course He knows who are His, He knows everything. But there is a big difference between KNOWING and that they never can leave. If you say to me: "I KNOW this phone is mine." Does that mean you cannot lose it? Of course not. If somebody comes and takes it, or you throw it away it doesn't matter anything if you say: "I KNOW the phone is mine." Because then it will be gone, and not Yours anymore. '

But also you have to understand the context of 2. Timothy 2,19. He is not saying that the Foundation of SALVATION is solid, but rather the Foundation that the ressurection hasn't taken Place yet (verse 18). So he is saying that the ressurection hasn't taken Place yet, and on that Foundation it stands "The Lord knows those who are His." He knows which of those who are dead will resurrect. He knows who of them is His. And even if that doesn't apply, and you still think it is talking about today, my forst answer applies.

Be blessed!

 

[bbyrd009]

Our works are but filthy rags, Isa 64:6.

your works are the only things that will be judged Heb, so near as i can tell the diff is whether the ego is involved or not? So maybe the diff in "i'm going to do something (that I want to do; "filthy rags") to help Christ today" and "i'm going to be open to doing something (that i never would have chosen) that Christ would have me do."

so it seems you have got the first concept with both hands but are reluctant to acknowledge that you will still be doing works, and it is those are going to be judged. Imo osas is completely true in a sense, but now we are talking about an application of about 3 ppl on the planet at any one time.

i think most of the confusion comes by labelling those who have made a little Statement of Faith among their peers as "saved."

 

[bbyrd009]

Because I read the whole Bible!
Not just the verses I like.

^

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I don't know if you notice that the bibleverse you are quoting is not underlining Your statement. The Lord knows who are His. What does that have to do With that you cannot lose slavation/throw away the gift? Of course He knows who are His, He knows everything. But there is a big difference between KNOWING and that they never can leave. If you say to me: "I KNOW this phone is mine." Does that mean you cannot lose it? Of course not. If somebody comes and takes it, or you throw it away it doesn't matter anything if you say: "I KNOW the phone is mine." Because then it will be gone, and not Yours anymore. '

But also you have to understand the context of 2. Timothy 2,19. He is not saying that the Foundation of SALVATION is solid, but rather the Foundation that the ressurection hasn't taken Place yet (verse 18). So he is saying that the ressurection hasn't taken Place yet, and on that Foundation it stands "The Lord knows those who are His." He knows which of those who are dead will resurrect. He knows who of them is His. And even if that doesn't apply, and you still think it is talking about today, my forst answer applies.

Be blessed!

Hi, good to hear from you.
Let me tell you, you cannot lose your salvation.
Impossible.
It is the greatest gift one can receive.
Who would give it back except one that has lost his mind, literally, insane.
Simple way to prove it.
Quit being a Christian if you think you can.
You can't, I rest my case.

 

[bbyrd009]

we debate 'who can be lost?'; the Bible debates 'who can be saved?'

 

[Stranger]

Luke 16 is not a parable. True.
And I just want to say that some believe man to be a dichotomy:
Body
Soul and Spirit combined

OR

Trichotomy
Body
Soul
Spirit

Both churches I learned from believed in the trichotomy of man...which would be the theologians of those churches.

View attachment 3425

Nice illustration.

Our body, soul, and spirit, are so intricately interwoven by God that we are one person. Only God and His word can make out those divisions. (Heb. 4:12).

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

Nice illustration.

Our body, soul, and spirit, are so intricately interwoven by God that we are one person. Only God and His word can make out those divisions. (Heb. 4:12).

Stranger

Absolutely. Here's an example, I'm going to use smoking because it involves all three, not because I think it's a sin although to some it might be.

When God tells us to stop doing something, we usually do.
So He might tell us to stop smoking...
This is a matter of the Spirit, our connection to God. SPIRIT
Our spirit affects our soul, which includes our "will" to stop. SOUL
Our will makes the smoking stop, which affects our body. BODY

 

[Kristian Gamst]

Believe God when He tells you............

1Jo 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Being "born of God" is a permanent condition of the heart KG.

Yes, that verse is certainly true, but I don't think you get the point With it. Because no one doesn't sin, everybody knows that. What does that mean? That when we sin we move into Our carnal nature. (2 peter 1) And when we listen to Our flesh, you probably will fall into sin. So actually this verse only apllies to you when you DON'T continue to sin. So when you continue to sin this seed will not remain in you. If you just out it around. So actually this proves my point in a way. But the Word CONTINUE is important here. The seed will not remain in you if you CONTINUE to sin.

Be blessed Brother!

 

[Kristian Gamst]

Logic is what a Carnal Mind does.
Logic requires the Carnal Mind to PICK between options, weigh the options, and choose WHICH option makes the most sense to them, that a man Concludes to trust "this" and not "that".

How does LOGIC play into a scenario, for a man who HAS ALREADY submitted, given, committed His Life to the Lord, and become Converted? Hasn't THAT man set ASIDE LOGIC of guessing, weighing between Options and Chosen to Trust the Word of God stands as the Sole TRUTH?

IOW, where does LOGIC, of a mans CARNAL MINDS Conclusion, fit into a Quickened mans spirit reliance on Christ is the Truth?

ENLIGHTMENT ~
Every man WHO is hearing the Word of God IS being enLIGHTened.

Their BEING enLIGHTENed is WHAT?
Hearing the TRUTH.

What are they Partaking IN?
Hearing the TRUTH.

Who is PROVIDING the TRUTH?
The Lord.

What is the TRUTH?
The Word of God.

What is happening to THEIR NATURAL HEART?
It is being GIFTED with measures of FAITH.

Who is the Provider of Faith?
The Lord.

Why are they called enLIGHTENed?
Because God IS LIGHT, and what they are Partaking OF IS the Receiving OF His WORD
TO; their ears
And
Partaking OF IS the Receiving OF His GIFT of FAITH; TO their natural hearts.

WHY is it NOT CALLED....CONVERTED?
Because the man HAS NOT, "ACTED" on what he has RECEIVED. (Gods Word to His Ears, and Gods Measure of Faith to His Heart)

If you recall the Lord BLESSES, both the SAVED and the UNSAVED.

The Lords WORD to the ears of a man IS a blessing TO .... in this case ... the UNSAVED.

The Lords GIFT of FAITH to a mans Heart IS a blessing TO ... in this case ... the UNSAVED.

This is a CASE of the UNSAVED....being Partakers of the Lords gifts....While still in their Natural sinful state.

It is precisely HOW a man BEGINS being PREPARED....

TO; Himself "ACT" and "CHOOSE" to give His Life to the Lord.

When ANY man "HAS" heard, "HAS" received measures of Faith....THAT MAN "HAS" partaken of the TRUTH and "HAS" partaken of the Lords Gifts, given him BY THE Lord.

It is called a Beginning, Enlightenment....

It is NOT CALLED a "CONVERSION".

IF IT WERE, "you" have neglected to Consider, the RECEIVER making a CHOICE, TO he himself, MAKING a Commitment TO the Lord.

You have decided, a man HEARING SOMETHING.....means he OPENED HIS MOUTH and made a CONFESSION of heartfelt belief......

WHEN the Scripture is simply notifying you of What the Lord HAS Done......the man has received.....AND THEN REJECTED.

Conversion IS the mans ACTION of ELECTING to RECEIVE the Lord Changing the man Spiritually within with FULL, FAITH-FULLNESS to the Lord and the Lord dwelling WITHIN the man Forever.

If a man IS receiving ENLIGHTMENT....and then REJECTS what he HAS received....that man has FALLEN from FAITH. The measures of Faith he received and the Truth he has receive to his ears......He has REJECTED!

Such a man would be better off, to have NEVER heard, NEVER received enlightment, NEVER received measures of FAITH.....

Because a Person IS NOT ACCOUNTABLE for what they have NOT KNOWN.....BUT IS ACCOUNTABLE and subject to the Consequences for What he HAS KNOWN and REJECTED.

Babies have NOT Heard or Know....They are not held Accountable for not Accepting Christ, because they Were not Enlightened.

People in the World living in complete seclusion, unaware of the rest of the world, who have NOT HEARD, are not Accountable for not Accepting Christ, because they Were not Enlightened.

It is Gods men-servants who minister scouring the World, sending HIS Word TO the World.

It is in the Last Days Gods Angelic ministers who will speak his WORD so NO man will be without Hearing, and faith from Him, that they are thus Prepared to elect to CHOOSE Him .... or not.

Enlightment DOES NOT EQUAL Conversion.

Enlightment....is gifts from God that men CAN and DO reject.
Conversion....is a man electing and choosing TO Accept the Lords gifts of Spiritual Change and His Indwelling Spirit.

God Bless,
Taken

I actually would say that what you are saying is wrong, or maybe half true. God wants us to use Our Logic and reason. You are putting forward the debate of FAITH VS REASON. But really you NEED both. If you only have faith and no reasoning, that's unbiblical. I'll show you:
'Consider (think over) what I say, and may the Lord give you understanding in all things.' 2 Timothy 2:7
He asks them who are Reading his letter to think over what he says. What do we use to think? Our brain. You have to make it reason in Our minds. But the other crucial point you are talking about is the faith part: "And may the LORD give you understanding in all Things." You also need the Lord to make you understand it. You cannot understand it only by Logic and reason you also the to ask Him to help you understand it. It is the same the other way round. You cannot understand it only by faith, you need to think about it in Your own mind, and ask God to help you to get it by His revelation and His understanding. So really we need the Balance between the two Things we are talking about. There is a Balance here, not one or the other.
You cannot read the Word of God, for example as Paul Writes in his second letter to Timothy only by trying to understand it With Your mind. You can understand bits, but you NEED God to reveal it to you, unless you wil never understand it truly. You van neither just leave it to faith and His understanding. Because then you will not read the Word, you will just leave it to His revelation. You need BOTH to understand His Word. And therefore it is not wrong to use Logic or reason, but of course we also need an understanding from the Lord also, a revelation.

Be very blessed Brother!

 

[LC627]

@Kristian Gamst
John 6:39 - And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

You're right, God already knows everything so that is why all names in the Book of Life where there from the creation of the world (Rev. 17:8)

 

[Heb 13:8]

your works are the only things that will be judged Heb, so near as i can tell the diff is whether the ego is involved or not? So maybe the diff in "i'm going to do something (that I want to do; "filthy rags") to help Christ today" and "i'm going to be open to doing something (that i never would have chosen) that Christ would have me do."

so it seems you have got the first concept with both hands but are reluctant to acknowledge that you will still be doing works, and it is those are going to be judged. Imo osas is completely true in a sense, but now we are talking about an application of about 3 ppl on the planet at any one time.

i think most of the confusion comes by labelling those who have made a little Statement of Faith among their peers as "saved."

true, but believers do works not to save themselves but out of thankfulness for the cross.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Yes, that verse is certainly true, but I don't think you get the point With it. Because no one doesn't sin, everybody knows that. What does that mean? That when we sin we move into Our carnal nature. (2 peter 1) And when we listen to Our flesh, you probably will fall into sin. So actually this verse only apllies to you when you DON'T continue to sin. So when you continue to sin this seed will not remain in you. If you just out it around. So actually this proves my point in a way. But the Word CONTINUE is important here. The seed will not remain in you if you CONTINUE to sin.

Be blessed Brother!

KG, it means that believers understand Godly sorrow as a means to repent on our daily walk. 2Co 7:10. Believers repent daily not to save themselves but out of thankfulness of the cross.

1Co 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Tools

Unchecked Copy Box 1Co 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Tools

Unchecked Copy Box 1Co 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

Tools

Unchecked Copy Box 1Co 1:25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

Tools

Unchecked Copy Box 1Co 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

And that's simply not true, that's a lie from the devil GG. OSAS preaches sanctification and discipline. The devil likes to mix truth with lies.

And what is the promise GG?

Rom 9:8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

God bless

I was speaking about Romans 9 to 11.
Paul is going to explain to the Jews how the Christians are going to have a part in the salvation economy God planned from the beginning.

Those reading along might be interested to read about these 3 chapters in Romans. Theologians explain the bible and exegete much better than anyone here can...

These are two good sites.

https://bibleclassexposition.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/11-romans-chapter-nine1.pdf

http://kgsvr.net/xn/nv/romans9-11.html


Romans chapters 9 to 11 are not about individual salvation, but about how God used Israel, and then the gentiles, to bring salvation to all.

 

[GodsGrace]

And that's simply not true, that's a lie from the devil GG. OSAS preaches sanctification and discipline. The devil likes to mix truth with lies.

Listen to Steven Anderson sometime.
And others...

They clearly say we could continue to sin (one said all we want to) and still be saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sorry to see that you have been unwell.

You know where I stand on OSAS , you and I are different sides of that fence.
The thing is though...whether we believe it , or don't believe it , changes nothing,
It is a personal belief issue ...why on earth people treat it as if it is an issue of life or death I have no idea. I don't have a lot of energy for these kind of issues...once I have said my bit, I just let it lay.

Get better soon x

To me it's important because of comments I hear that it's not necessary to obey God or follow His commandments or do ANYTHING for Him at all because:

1. It takes the glory away from Him and puts it on us. As if anything could take the glory away from God.

2. It leads to a sinful life. This cannot be denied. I've heard some say this and I fear that it might lead to loss of salvation -- but of course, those who preach this OSAS don't believe in loss of salvation...so it's a catch 22.

I believe it's right to say that our life and how we live it does matter to God.
Faith alone is wrong. Many believe this these days.
This is not taught anywhere in scripture.

 

[Kristian Gamst]

@Kristian Gamst
John 6:39 - And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

You're right, God already knows everything so that is why all names in the Book of Life where there from the creation of the world (Rev. 17:8)

It says it is the WILL of Him. It does not stand that He cannot lose them. But the WILL (not certainty or anything alike) of God. If it is Your will to not lose Your car, that's fine. But you can certaintly lose it.

Remeber there is a big difference between knowing and predestining. He knew who would be saved, but He hasn't predistned it. We have free will, but God KNOWS what is going to happen, but He gives us the chance to choose between Our own will and His will.

God bless!

 

[Heb 13:8]

Romans chapters 9 to 11 are not about individual salvation, but about how God used Israel, and then the gentiles, to bring salvation to all.

Yes it is. Individual salvation only comes through belief in the death burial resurrection. Rom 10:9-13 is in reference to individual salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

I disagree.
It is written to all believers, period.
Once Jesus said, "It is finished", we all became part of each other.
All New Testament letters were written to all believers.
I'll debate that with you if necessary.
You've said this before as have others.
I contest that the New Testament was written to all believers, no exceptions.
Why should I believe and follow something that is just for the Jews?
I can show you otherwise.

All NT letters were written to all believers, except very few verses that were for Jews regarding eating certain foods, etc.

AND Romans chapters 9 to 11 was specifically written explaining to the Jews God's salvation plan.

Please see my post no. 273 with links.
These chapters in Romans are not about individual salvation, but about the nation of Israel.

 

[Kristian Gamst]

KG, it means that believers understand Godly sorrow as a means to repent on our daily walk. 2Co 7:10. Believers repent daily not to save themselves but out of thankfulness of the cross.

1Co 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Tools

Unchecked Copy Box 1Co 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Tools

Unchecked Copy Box 1Co 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

Tools

Unchecked Copy Box 1Co 1:25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

Tools

Unchecked Copy Box 1Co 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Yes, I get that. But again I want to underline that it stand CONTINUE. Yes, if you want to stay With Jesus you repent daily from Things that doesn't please Him, but if you CONTINUE to sin you can lose that seed.

God bless!

 

[Nancy]

You're right for a change. In bed not feeling well.
Will speak to you tomorrow.
Maybe. If you're lucky!

I hope you feel better soon...you were up all night a couple days ago!