Small Fish
Active Member
So according to you, the Bible is wrong when it says that God made the sun and the moon on the fourth day?
The Cosmos
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Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
No the Bible is not wrong; it is your perspective which is wrong. The sun, moon and stars were already there all alone it’s just that they were not visible from the surface of the earth because of the dense cloud cover which shrouded the earth. This “swaddling band” completely hid the light of these from penetrating to the earth surface during the first 3 days (21,000 years), but by the fourth day they began to thin out and the sun appeared first followed by the moon and then the stars.
The “firmament” or “heavens” referred to here could apply equally well to both the first and the second literal heavens. Although we know in fact that the lights we see in the heavens are in truth located beyond our atmosphere (in the second literal heavens, the expanse of space), nevertheless because the atmosphere is transparent from our perspective they appear to be in the atmosphere (the first literal heavens, the expanse of the sky).
Small Fish
Active Member
But that's not the point. What I am saying that the first four days was not necessary determine by the sun. (24 hour periods) Whichever way God did it. Only on the fourth day was the sun given to devide the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:17-18
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
My point exactly! I am not saying that God's reasoning is false; your reasoning is what I question. I dont care what scientific fact are presented, we must first deal with the roadblock that is clearly stated. Evening and Morning were 1 day. Please stop trying to force Scripture to fit Science, and instead make science fit scripture
For the perpose of regulating the working week and the sabeth each day is of 24 hours, otherwise you are saying that we should not be working as it is still the first sabeth.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
I believe we already addressed this in one of our first post, viz.
“The evening and the morning were the first day”. The Hebrew word here translated "evening" literally means "dusk" or darkness. What the Divine Author evidently wants us to understand is that each of the creative periods had an obscure, "dark" beginning, and the completion of the work of each age was a morning of brightness.
This has nothing to do a literal 24 hour day in which the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
The Sabbath which God entered into on the seventh day was not a Sabbath from all work as we had pointed out in Post # 15, but merely a Sabbath or rest from the creative work. God is still on that Sabbath, and has since the first advent given to the Son the responsibility of finishing up the work of this great Sabbath day.
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TheHolyBookEnds
Well-Known Member
There are two kinds of "child" in scripture, those of God who believe God's word, and those of the wicked one, who change God's word.
Genesis 1 is clear. Sun, moon and local stars came into existence on Day 4, the earth on Day 1.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
It is as "clear as 'day'". (Pun intended).
I believe this. You obviously do not. Whose child are you?
.
I'm confident in my own mind that Ps 104:5-9 is a reference to Gen 1:2.
The waters of the Flood were removed, whereas the waters of Ps 10:5-9 are
still here.
_
I'm confident in my own mind that Ps 104:5-9 is a reference to Gen 1:2.
The waters of the Flood were removed, whereas the waters of Ps 10:5-9 are
still here.
_
TheHolyBookEnds
Well-Known Member
Before or after the flood:
Psa 104:9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.
The waters of the flood are still here. Look at the Oceans.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but this is a belief held by naive Christians, lacking the "spirit of a sound mind".
The Day-Age Theory is just a theory, similar to the Gap Theory. But a plain literal reading of Genesis is required from the first to the last chapter.
Those were literal 24-hour days, and that is how they are presented in the Ten Commandments. People literally work during a six day week, not a six "Day-Age" week!
.
According to Gen 8:1-3, the Flood's waters were blown off the Earth; and according to
Gen 1:9-10 the oceans were here before the Flood.
_
According to Gen 8:1-3, the Flood's waters were blown off the Earth; and according to
Gen 1:9-10 the oceans were here before the Flood.
_
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TheHolyBookEnds
Well-Known Member
The waters of the Flood were much higher than they are now, since the mountains arose and the valleys sank in the sea floor. The waters had covered even higher than the current mountains of Arrarat, 17000 ft. Gen. 8:1 says that the waters withdrew, or went down and returned from off of the earth and flowed into the great basins left by the cataclysmic flood which is the ocean as we have it.
Genesis 1:9-10 does not speak of the Ocean as we know it today, but of "seas" (great calm pools, think of something like a mediterranean sea, black sea, but before the sin of mankind, and the curse upon the earth) and in Gen. 2, of 4 great rivers flowing from within the earth outward (no longer, after the flood) watering all the earth. Most of the water was inside the earth and high above, which in the cataclysmic flood, was reversed. The waters came up from beneath and fell from above, even as the fire in Rev. 20 will do after the 1000 years.
In the Earth made new, there is no more such a thing as the restless Ocean, see Rev. 21:1; Isa. 33:21; Eze. 47:1-6, in which it speaks of "a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby."
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TheHolyBookEnds
Well-Known Member
I have been called worse. I can accept another badge of honour for Christ Jesus. "Naive" it is. Do I accept your denigration of Jesus to less than He is, stripped of His eternal Godhead? "Na" "I've" (Naive) accepted Jesus Christ as JEHOVAH Immanuel, Jesus JEHOVAH, God manifest in the flesh, My LORD (JEHOVAH, the person of the Son) and My God (far above all, seated at the right hand of the Father, where He was before), and His word as it plainly reads. I also have the science from Him to back it up, but His word comes first.
A child (of God) can read Gen. 1 and understand it. A six year old can tell you that you are in error in regards Gen. 1.
You refuse to give up your errors, because then you would have to admit your life up to this point has accepted error (be humble already), and the carnal mind does not want to relinquish its infallibility (which it isn't). It is a hard thing, but I have already done that, by the grace of God. God is true, His word is true.
It wasn't belief in the Bible as the Word of God that caused people to believe the earth was flat. The Bible never teaches that the earth is flat or that the sun revolves around the earth.
And it is not naive for the believer to believe the statements made by God in the Scripture. Your faith in scientific understanding has led you to a valley of unbelief in the things of God.
The sun, moon, and stars were created on the 4th day, just like (Gen. 1:14-19) says. A 24 hour day. The 'light' in (1:3) is the light of God. This would be substituted on the fourth day by the sun and moon and stars.
Note in the Tabernacle the different types of light. In the outer court the light was from the light of the sun, an artificial light. When you enter into the Holy place, the light was from the lampstand, an artificial light. But in the Holy of Holies, there was no artificial light. It was the light of God.
Stranger
... ok. So from when it gets dark in the evening to when light shines in the morning. Your interpretation makes no sense. Its like me saying
Rev 16:18
"The word for ligtning means bright light and loud boom, therefore flashbang"
It just doesnt make any logical sense. Just because it says dark and light doesn't instantly mean gap theory, sorry. It gets dark at the end of one 24hr day, and it gets bright at the beginning of one 24hr. Why does this bother you? Is the God you believe in not powerful enough to accomplish this task? What is the purpose of trying to prove some gap theory, and read something into Scriptures that just isnt there?
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
Who said anything about the bible teaching the the earth is flat or that the sun revolves around the earth. We merely said that these were at one time believed, we never implied that such beliefs came from the bible.
.
● Gen 1:2c . . and Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
When that verse is considered with Gen 1:9; it's readily deduced that that
the Earth's surface was completely submerged at first; so that the planet
has been flooded twice in the past; but that was it.
● Gen 9:11 . . I will maintain My covenant with you: never again shall all
flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall there be a
flood to destroy the earth.
Noah needed to hear that so he wouldn't get jumpy the next time it started
to rain really hard in his neighborhood. There is still flooding going on in the
world, but certainly not on the same scale as the Flood.
● Gen 1:6-8 . . And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the
waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the
firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the
waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
We can easily guess what is meant by water that's below the sky. But is
there really water that's above it? Yes, and it's a lot! According to an article
in the Sept 2013 issue of National Geographic magazine, Earth's atmosphere
holds roughly 3,095 cubic miles of water in the form of vapor. That may
seem like a preposterous number of cubic miles of water; but not really
when it's considered that Lake Superior's volume alone is estimated at
nearly 3,000.
Our home planet is really big; a whole lot bigger than people sometimes
realize. It's surface area, in square miles, is 196,940,000. To give an idea of
just how many square miles that is: if somebody were to wrap a belt around
the equator made of one-mile squares; it would only take 24,902 squares to
complete the distance; which is a mere .00012644 the surface area.
Some of the more familiar global warming gases are carbon dioxide,
fluorocarbons, methane, and ozone. But as popular as those gases are with
the media, they're bit players in comparison to the role that ordinary water
vapor plays in global warming. By some estimates; atmospheric water vapor
accounts for more than 90% of global warming; which is not a bad thing
because without atmospheric water vapor, the earth would be so cold that
the only life that could exist here would be extremophiles.
How much water is below the expanse? Well; according to the same article;
the amount contained in swamp water, lakes and rivers, ground water, and
oceans, seas, and bays adds up to something like 326.6 million cubic miles;
and that's not counting the 5.85 million cubic miles tied up in living
organisms, soil moisture, ground ice and permafrost, ice sheets, glaciers,
and permanent snow.
To put that in perspective: a tower 326.6 million miles high would exceed
the Sun's distance better than 3½ times.
● Gen 1:9 . . And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered
together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Shaping the earth's mantle in order to form low spots for the seas and high
spots for dry ground was a colossal feat of magma convection and volcanism
combined with the titanic forces of tectonic plate subduction.
At the ocean's deepest surveyed point-- the Challenger Deep; located in the
Mariana Islands group, at the southern end of the Mariana Trench --the
water's depth is over 11,000 meters; which is about 6.8 statute miles
(36,000 feet). That depth corresponds to the cruising altitude of a Boeing
747. At that altitude, probably about all you're going to see of the airliner
without straining your eyes is its contrail.
Africa's Mt Kilimanjaro is the tallest free-standing mountain on earth at
19,341 feet above its land base. If Kilimanjaro were placed in the Challenger
Deep, it would have about 16,659 feet of water over its peak. Were the
tallest point of the Himalayan range-- Mt Everest --to be submerged in the
Challenger Deep, it would have about 7,000 feet of water over its peak.
_
● Gen 1:2c . . and Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
When that verse is considered with Gen 1:9; it's readily deduced that that
the Earth's surface was completely submerged at first; so that the planet
has been flooded twice in the past; but that was it.
● Gen 9:11 . . I will maintain My covenant with you: never again shall all
flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall there be a
flood to destroy the earth.
Noah needed to hear that so he wouldn't get jumpy the next time it started
to rain really hard in his neighborhood. There is still flooding going on in the
world, but certainly not on the same scale as the Flood.
● Gen 1:6-8 . . And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the
waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the
firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the
waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
We can easily guess what is meant by water that's below the sky. But is
there really water that's above it? Yes, and it's a lot! According to an article
in the Sept 2013 issue of National Geographic magazine, Earth's atmosphere
holds roughly 3,095 cubic miles of water in the form of vapor. That may
seem like a preposterous number of cubic miles of water; but not really
when it's considered that Lake Superior's volume alone is estimated at
nearly 3,000.
Our home planet is really big; a whole lot bigger than people sometimes
realize. It's surface area, in square miles, is 196,940,000. To give an idea of
just how many square miles that is: if somebody were to wrap a belt around
the equator made of one-mile squares; it would only take 24,902 squares to
complete the distance; which is a mere .00012644 the surface area.
Some of the more familiar global warming gases are carbon dioxide,
fluorocarbons, methane, and ozone. But as popular as those gases are with
the media, they're bit players in comparison to the role that ordinary water
vapor plays in global warming. By some estimates; atmospheric water vapor
accounts for more than 90% of global warming; which is not a bad thing
because without atmospheric water vapor, the earth would be so cold that
the only life that could exist here would be extremophiles.
How much water is below the expanse? Well; according to the same article;
the amount contained in swamp water, lakes and rivers, ground water, and
oceans, seas, and bays adds up to something like 326.6 million cubic miles;
and that's not counting the 5.85 million cubic miles tied up in living
organisms, soil moisture, ground ice and permafrost, ice sheets, glaciers,
and permanent snow.
To put that in perspective: a tower 326.6 million miles high would exceed
the Sun's distance better than 3½ times.
● Gen 1:9 . . And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered
together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Shaping the earth's mantle in order to form low spots for the seas and high
spots for dry ground was a colossal feat of magma convection and volcanism
combined with the titanic forces of tectonic plate subduction.
At the ocean's deepest surveyed point-- the Challenger Deep; located in the
Mariana Islands group, at the southern end of the Mariana Trench --the
water's depth is over 11,000 meters; which is about 6.8 statute miles
(36,000 feet). That depth corresponds to the cruising altitude of a Boeing
747. At that altitude, probably about all you're going to see of the airliner
without straining your eyes is its contrail.
Africa's Mt Kilimanjaro is the tallest free-standing mountain on earth at
19,341 feet above its land base. If Kilimanjaro were placed in the Challenger
Deep, it would have about 16,659 feet of water over its peak. Were the
tallest point of the Himalayan range-- Mt Everest --to be submerged in the
Challenger Deep, it would have about 7,000 feet of water over its peak.
_
Who the hell is 'we'?
Sounds good. You understand the day in (Gen. 1) is a 24 hour day. Because Scripture says so. You understand the sun and moon was not created until the 4th day, because the Bible says so. You understand that the 'light' prior to the 4th day, was the light of God. Glad you and I are in agreement.
Stranger
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